WDW July 4 2025

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know we can’t lean into it too much on here, but the political boycotts here in the U.S. are a real thing. Disney is on that list for some and Florida in general is for many others. I’m in Wisconsin. I’ve been a multiple time AP holder, family of 6. Flying costs are out of control on top of the hefty price to enjoy the parks. I know several other families in the same boat. Not that my situation is the example, but it is something.

…there is a significant effort around here to avoid blaming the costs being to high as the reason why they seem to have suffered a downturn…
…but it’s been a fun experiment to see how many excuses are tossed against a wall to see if any stick?

 

[Chi84]

Read it again

Ok good…I thought I had switched my language settings to Greek and hadn’t realized…

He was responding to claims that attendance was currently seriously down. But you know that.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

He was responding to claims that attendance was currently seriously down. But you know that.

Again…you didn’t read it word for word.

He quoted a stiff who made a generalization with zero consequences and said “contradictory information”

We doing the “provincial” thing today?

Is the postal inspector gonna show up in Bud Fox’s office to arrest him today?

Contrary to my propensity to make fat finger typos here…I do tend to read “ok”

 

[Chi84]

Again…you didn’t read it word for word.

He quoted a stiff who made a generalization with zero consequences and said “contradictory information”

We doing a the “provincial” thing today?

Is the postal inspector gonna show up in Bud Fox’s office to arrest him today?

Contrary to my propensity to make fat finger typos here…I do tend to read “ok”

Who was the stiff who made a generalization with zero consequences?

I really doubt @lentesta was citing non-credible sources or coming to unsupported conclusions.

It seemed to me he was saying attendance is not significantly down and that the improved standby wait times were possibly attributable to park operations doing something right.

The contradiction was attendance remaining good but wait times going down. And he gave his explanation. Don’t pretend you don’t understand it just because you don’t like it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Who was the stiff who made a generalization with zero consequences?

I really doubt @lentesta was citing non-credible sources or coming to unsupported conclusions.

It seemed to me he was saying attendance is not significantly down and that the improved standby wait times were attributable to park operations doing something right.

HUGE Johnson said “bookings are up”…which is a comparison that left out the comparison part.

Hourly capacity for the rides is established…you can only get X number of people on a 3 minutes ride with a set number of seats per hour/day. So even if he was entirely talking about standbys - which I didn’t interpret - the fact they are not showing long lines (they’re not…at all) combined with the visual signs - lighter baseline traffic, lack of dining demand, ample hotel nights available and a large amount of discounts available - calls the proclamation of “bookings are up” into question for even the most trusting of minds.

I’ll just point out (for the 3,000th time) that nametags can lie…and it isn’t academically even a lie if there’s no way to make a case they knew they were being a doofus. This is the planet as is stands/decays

 

[Chi84]

HUGE Johnson said “bookings are up”…which is a comparison that left out the comparison part.

Hourly capacity for the rides is established…you can only get X number of people on a 3 minutes ride with a set number of seats per hour/day. So even if he was entirely talking about standbys - which I didn’t interpret - the fact they are not showing long lines (they’re not…at all) combined with the visual signs - lighter baseline traffic, lack of dining demand, ample hotel nights available and a large amount of discounts available - calls the proclamation of “bookings are up” into question for even the most trusting of minds.

I’ll just point out (for the 3,000th time) that nametags can lie…and it isn’t academically even a lie if there’s no way to make a case they knew they were being a doofus. This is the planet as is stands/decays

No.

How can the parks be comparatively empty with the CFO saying that "attendance is quite good" and bookings up 4-7%?



The CFO's not making a materially and intentionally false statement in an earnings call. Even if he did, legal would've corrected it by now.

I mean, if the choices are "it's an Enron-style house of cards" and "it's something else", I'm going with the latter.

Johnston said specifically those bookings were "in", i.e., payment for the trips had already been received. My link above has his words. The "up" obviously refers to year over year trends.

If the CFO is saying the bookings and revenue are there, they're there.

Again, wait times at WDW were down 14-20% over Christmas. Disney's had an earnings call since then. The CFO specifically said attendance was "still quite good". Either the entire executive team is risking jail, or there's another explanation. I think it's Park Ops doing the Lord's work, not fraud.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

statements that the parks are "empty" or "ghost towns."

MK was indeed a comparable ghost town for Saturday July 5th. Park reservations should have been sold out all weekend for MK.

 

[GhostHost1000]

The other thing I noticed this summer is dining reservations are MUCH easier to get than before.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hey looky there…steep discounts on rooms rolled out for October -December just today…

That’s EXACTLY what you do when “bookings are up” and people flood the fall and winter cause “nobody goes in the summer anymore…it’s too hot”

Just like HUGH G JOHNSON planned it

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

MK was indeed a comparable ghost town for Saturday July 5th. Park reservations should have been sold out all weekend for MK.

Do park reservations ever sell out? Except occasionally at DisneyLAND?

That’s even a bigger charade at this point.

But that was said as a reason why it looks like the crowds were down just a couple days ago…cause locals/annuals were blacked out.

Uh huh…yeah…evidenced by the open park reservations…guess the incredipass ain’t a big hit?
Even though we get a pretty consistent shouting lecture about what a “great value” and how “underpriced” it is…
Guess Donnie finally won and they eliminated that free loading riff raff?

 

[WorldExplorer]

The other thing I noticed this summer is dining reservations are MUCH easier to get than before.

It's been like this for a bit. I remember just a couple of years ago I was checking constantly for like two months trying to snag Topolino's Terrace for two, only to finally grab it the night before.

Now? Unless it's Space 220 or a major holiday, I don't worry. I almost always get what I want on the first search and if not I get it on the second search a couple of days later. I just checked TT for two months from now and it has tons of availability. I was looking at Cinderella's Royal Table a couple of days ago and told my family not to worry about grabbing it right this second because I was confident it would all still be there in a couple of days, and I was right!

Heck, even Hoop Dee Doo Revue, wheelchair accessible seating, which makes a large amount of the seats not an option? Multiple times and multiple sections open for the day I wanted!

And I'm not talking about staying up to midnight on the night before the 60th day here, I was looking for this stuff whenever it occured to me.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

No.

Yes actually…might want to talk to your lawyer and get a third party opinion. There are more lies than truths spoken on any given day. We’ve just become immune to it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The other thing I noticed this summer is dining reservations are MUCH easier to get than before.

You can basically count on one hand the locations showing as “reservations currently unavailable” when you do a global search…and that intensifies as you get close to the dates and people dump.

I had thought for a while it was the cancellation fees…but they dumped them and now it’s just hasn’t driven traffic back

If we’re Honest…what are the places that are even slightly hard to get?

Cinderella’s
Homecoming
Ohana dinner
Sci fi occasionally
Yak and yeti?

even places that used to be somewhat challenging - like le cellier and boathouse - have fallen back to the pack. Topolino comes to mind too. Chef mickeys.

I don’t get it? It’s still the same magical $500 meal for a family of two adults and two tweens it’s always was.

It’s really an enigma now.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Summer attendance has been soft since COVID (and even a little before COVID).

This is not news... except to those who want to spin this into TWDC empire collapsing or Schadenfreude for some "I'm angry" reason.

@wdwmagic noted that July 4 attendance was low. He also noted that in 2024 and 2023.

We've talked endlessly about how the Fall and Jan/Feb used to be the "dead" times but aren't any more... Summer is.

Let the handful of people create a data point that a handful of people aren't going to WDW this Summer or ever. Drop in the bucket.

 

[wdwmagic]

This is not news... except to those who want to spin this into TWDC empire collapsing or Schadenfreude for some "I'm angry" reason.

I think the news is that despite pulling a lot of levers, summer attendance is not recovering. For someone who has been covering this for al long time, I still find it shocking to see relatively quite July 4 week, and it looks like things are about to drop even further.

 

[Jrb1979]

I think the news is that despite pulling a lot of levers, summer attendance is not recovering. For someone who has been covering this for al long time, I still find it shocking to see relatively quite July 4 week, and it looks like things are about to drop even further.

View attachment 870036

The thing is it's not just Disney that's like this. Universal is as well as most parks across the country.

 

[bmr1591]

I think the news is that despite pulling a lot of levers, summer attendance is not recovering. For someone who has been covering this for al long time, I still find it shocking to see relatively quite July 4 week, and it looks like things are about to drop even further.

View attachment 870036

Are they pulling levers soon enough? For most families, they’re planning vacations in Fall for the summer so they can save money to pay for it. Releasing deals in February may be great for those who have already booked, but it sure seems late when a lot of families have already chosen their summer getaway.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the news is that despite pulling a lot of levers, summer attendance is not recovering. For someone who has been covering this for al long time, I still find it shocking to see relatively quite July 4 week, and it looks like things are about to drop even further.

View attachment 870036

…but, but, but…

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Summer attendance has been soft since COVID (and even a little before COVID).

This is not news... except to those who want to spin this into TWDC empire collapsing or Schadenfreude for some "I'm angry" reason.

@wdwmagic noted that July 4 attendance was low. He also noted that in 2024 and 2023.

We've talked endlessly about how the Fall and Jan/Feb used to be the "dead" times but aren't any more... Summer is.

Let the handful of people create a data point that a handful of people aren't going to WDW this Summer or ever. Drop in the bucket.

You should be having this lecture in front of your own mirror…

And then go and get yourself a nice huge room discount they dropped for December 20th today…which apparently is till the “hot season”

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Are they pulling levers soon enough? For most families, they’re planning vacations in Fall for the summer so they can save money to pay for it. Releasing deals in February may be great for those who have already booked, but it sure seems late when a lot of families have already chosen their summer getaway.

Average trip planning was like 11-18 months out…that has fallen likely due the prevalence of dvc and shifting time off schedules…but that’s not the demos they’re trying to get with promos anyway.

There’s plenty of room at the inn…no need to use the manger as overflow