TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Agreed. But this is not improved park ops or DAS refusals causing this. No possible way.
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WDW July 4 2025
- Thread starter monothingie
- Start date
If 80% of the people that used to be in LL are kicked out of the LL, and can no longer get in 15 rides a day, but only 8, how can that *not* be a huge benefit to everyone else in standby?
Total possible way.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
If they were here they could ride as many rides as they want…. There is hardly any waits! Haha
Chi84
Premium Member
Heck no. I'm from Chicago. It's kinda fun playing on the "L" tracks on the other side of the third rail.Send me your dictionary and I’ll brush up
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Now you’re talking my language!!!! (Trains not Chicago to be clear haah)
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
There’s definitely people at Epcot - not “packed” but considerably more crowded then MK and DAK were - not sure if it’s this park or people showing up after the weekend for vacation.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Ironic since the wait times this afternoon - which I happened to take a look at on the holy app - where about as low as they ever seem to get….hmmm
lentesta
Premium Member
I think it was the three things I outlined upthread, yeah.
lentesta
Premium Member
Epic is intentionally limiting ticket sales through at least the end of this month. I’m sure there are threads on this.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
I’m exiting same time and skyliner line is much longer too so crowd Level is definitely different I’d say.
Only rides i did were figment and spaceship earth so it’s hard to gauge crowds on those haha.
The Skyliner doesn’t take much to have a long line, though. It’s continually moving and maybe I’m wrong but it doesn’t move a lot of people in a short amount of time. I guess it could, if they packed every car with 8 people, but I’ve rarely been on it with others. Maybe I’ve just been lucky.
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Right… but last night there was a very short line. Tonight there was a “normal” line.
Just my observations.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I don’t think the skyliner is the best indication of park crowds…
People funnel in and out of it for somewhere around 10,000 or so rooms and 2 parks…
And it shuts down Everytime the Doppler picks up a lightning bolt within like a 15 mile radius…and it’s Florida…and it’s July…
It’s closed several times a day often without breaking a sweat
A “long line” could be because it started queuing 10 minutes before you walked by and people are trying to get to studios
Were the boats running?
People funnel in and out of it for somewhere around 10,000 or so rooms and 2 parks…
And it shuts down Everytime the Doppler picks up a lightning bolt within like a 15 mile radius…and it’s Florida…and it’s July…
It’s closed several times a day often without breaking a sweat
A “long line” could be because it started queuing 10 minutes before you walked by and people are trying to get to studios
Were the boats running?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I know…and you can go and buy a ticket for any single day from now until 12/25…so availability with a “cap” doesn’t scream “more crowds than they can handle”
It’s easy to find out…just go on their site/app and click under tickets
I do like that they have a cap…there isn’t a a lot of stuff to put a huge crowd on…
But they aren’t sold out to the cap…so lifting it will make zero difference in the near term.
Also if you line track…IOA and USO are posting really minuscule waits at most times…
Which means the I-4 problem is real…
We just have to figure out why?
TrainsOfDisney
Well-Known Member
Yes.
They may not be…. I was just noticing the difference which did seem to line up with epcot feeling a bit more crowded today.
lentesta
Premium Member
Wait times at UOR were up slightly over the holidays.
Below is thrill-data's monthly wait time averages for UOR going back to pre-pandemic. With the exception of May, when Epic opened, the average wait times for the last 3 months are 1 minute lower. That's well within the margin of error.
I have to ask: percentage-wise, how much lower do you think attendance is? It doesn't sound like you're talking a couple of points. 10%? 20%?
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
I don’t know…a lot of grumblings from the 32830 that they’re far worse than the face they’re putting on it. Which doesn’t necessarily reflect in wait times…If you assume that people are doing multiple rides in a shorter amount of time now than they could in 2018…where repeat rides weren’t really possible for a standard tourist?
They used to go to defcon 2 when they saw a 3-5% attendance dip…but that was long ago in my day.
From a numbers perspective…10% would be catastrophic to the bottomline. It would eat heavily into the margins…If not eleminate it altogether?
I think we agree that the declines - which they have acknowledged but try to be as evasive as possible in doing - since they hit the Covid wall have been masked largely by LL and upsell fees…which is literally money for nothing…but I wonder if they’re clearing the overhead by more now? Or my suspicion is it’s shrinking.
Who knows…what we can glean is always a bit veiled.
lentesta
Premium Member
Do you recall when Disney last had a non-COVID 5% drop in attendance? I ask because we could go back and see if they disclosed it in or around an earnings call. My thinking is that 5% is a large enough drop to warrant disclosure. And 10% would be immense - they'd be giving fund managers a heads-up. Especially if their CFO's last comments were +4% and +7%.
That said, I think few of us could visually recognize the difference in crowd size between 100 people, 97 people (-3%), and 95 people (-5%). Maybe 10% we could start to see it? Even then, I don't think I could do it myself. So it's hard to put stock in, say, photos showing people walking around the parks, without other context.
Jrb1979
Well-Known Member
I agree with the bolded. It's not that noticeable with a drop of 3-5%.
A big tell for me that attendance is down is the amount of discounts they keep putting out plus the year long kids eat free deal. They don't put out discounts for no reason. I really do think they are struggling with attendance. They aren't the only ones. Universal is down as well as Six Flags parks. The bigger question is why are people not interested in parks as whole anymore?