WSJ: Even Disney Is Worried About The High Cost Of A Disney Vacation (gift link)

[DisneyHead123]

But this basic bit of data doesn't tell you much about the relative wealth and disposable income. You can still be in the top 10%, having more income than the 90% below you, but maybe only the top 2 or 3% have seen any real growth in value and those below have either stagnated or declined in real terms.

That could be but I’d need to see data to support it. There are endless scenarios that could play into disposable income. I’ve read that more young people live at home and buy luxury brands, for example. While a couple right at the cutoff for top 10% with 4 kids and a mortgage on a townhouse might not have anything left over for vacations. I can say with confidence that the population has increased by over 100 million people or so, and the number of people in the top 10% has increased proportionately. On disposable income, I have no data one way or the other.

 

[UNCgolf]

That could be but I’d need to see data to support it. There are endless scenarios that could play into disposable income. I’ve read that more young people live at home and buy luxury brands, for example. While a couple right at the cutoff for top 10% with 4 kids and a mortgage on a townhouse might not have anything left over for vacations. I can say with confidence that the population has increased by over 100 million people or so, and the number of people in the top 10% has increased proportionately. On disposable income, I have no data one way or the other.

The biggest issue is that housing costs have skyrocketed over the past few decades. People generally have to spend a much, much higher percentage of their income on housing than people did 30-40 years ago, which obviously cascades down into how much money they're able to spend on other things.

 

[DisneyHead123]

The biggest issue is that housing costs have skyrocketed over the past few decades. People generally have to spend a much, much higher percentage of their income on housing than people did 30-40 years ago, which obviously cascades down into how much money they're able to spend on other things.

Agree… I just have no idea how disposable income and net income align. It’s totally possible that Zoomers living with their parents have way more to spend than homeowners, I just don’t have any info on it.

 

[DisneyNittany]

Agree… I just have no idea how disposable income and net income align. It’s totally possible that Zoomers living with their parents have way more to spend than homeowners, I just don’t have any info on it.

I saw some numbers on this a little while back, but I won't even pretend to remember them even roughly. What it boiled down to though was essentially: "The essential items were affordable while the luxury items were expensive, but now, the essentials are expensive while the luxury is affordable."

Example given, mortgages and rents were a much smaller percentage of income, while furnishing your house (TVs, furniture, fridge, dishwasher, microwave, etc.) was much more expensive. Now, it's the complete inverse.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I saw some numbers on this a little while back, but I won't even pretend to remember them even roughly. What it boiled down to though was essentially: "The essential items were affordable while the luxury items were expensive, but now, the essentials are expensive while the luxury is affordable."

Example given, mortgages and rents were a much smaller percentage of income, while furnishing your house (TVs, furniture, fridge, dishwasher, microwave, etc.) was much more expensive. Now, it's the complete inverse.

There is no question the costs of a WDW vacation has risen much faster than anything else.

A WDW vacation is a luxury item and its pricing out more and more families as time goes on.

 

[DisneyNittany]

There is no question the costs of a WDW vacation has risen much faster than anything else.

A WDW vacation is a luxury item and its pricing out more and more families as time goes on.

True. Not disagreeing there.

However, that is one very specific example. In general, travel is a lot more affordable/accessible than in previous generations. Europe and the Caribbean, in particular, are relatively cheap and easy to access.

My parents were going to Lake Erie and Ocean City when they were growing up. They were taking my sister and I to to the Outer Banks. Now, my kids are going to Caribbean islands or on Disney Caribbean cruises.

 

[Minnesota disney fan]

I usually agree with you most of the time, LOL.
But I disagree that disney is a luxury item. It might have been many years ago. It is an extremely expensive vacation, but misses the mark for luxury in many areas. Also, ROI that is not there anymore (at least for us) makes it just an expensive vacation.

 

[DisneyCane]

Why? the entire world is getting hotter because of climate change thus no one wants to go in summer. the same thing is true at universal.

Even if it is a degree warmer at WDW (which, based on the data posted by @HauntedPirate it isn't) during the summer, that's not driving the change. It was always hotter than hades at WDW in the summer since it was built. It was the busy season because people used to be a lot more reluctant to take their kids out of school for a vacation. Over time, that has become more normal and then the COVID closings of schools sent a signal that it is more than OK to do.

Therefore, people would rather go during the times of the year when the weather is pleasant. I can still remember feeling like I was in a sauna at WDW in the summer in the late 90's just the same as it felt last year.

 

[Disstevefan1]

True. Not disagreeing there.

However, that is one very specific example. In general, travel is a lot more affordable/accessible than in previous generations. Europe and the Caribbean, in particular, are relatively cheap and easy to access.

My parents were going to Lake Erie and Ocean City when they were growing up. They were taking my sister and I to to the Outer Banks. Now, my kids are going to Caribbean islands or on Disney Caribbean cruises.

I also agree here.

Unfortunately, Disney's only response may be to offer occasional "discounts" to their already too high and always increasing prices on everything.

We will never, ever see a formal price drop on anything at Disney.

 

[Jrb1979]

Even if it is a degree warmer at WDW (which, based on the data posted by @HauntedPirate it isn't) during the summer, that's not driving the change. It was always hotter than hades at WDW in the summer since it was built. It was the busy season because people used to be a lot more reluctant to take their kids out of school for a vacation. Over time, that has become more normal and then the COVID closings of schools sent a signal that it is more than OK to do.

Therefore, people would rather go during the times of the year when the weather is pleasant. I can still remember feeling like I was in a sauna at WDW in the summer in the late 90's just the same as it felt last year.

That theory may sound good. From the data out there summer is still having record breaking travel to Orlando. It's definitely not heat why have changed their mind on the parks.

 

[Chi84]

I usually agree with you most of the time, LOL.
But I disagree that disney is a luxury item. It might have been many years ago. It is an extremely expensive vacation, but misses the mark for luxury in many areas. Also, ROI that is not there anymore (at least for us) makes it just an expensive vacation.

Luxury is also defined as something desirable and often expensive but not necessary. I think this is the definition most use when they speak of Disney as a luxury vacation.

I can’t imagine any theme park that would fit other definitions of being luxurious.

 

[flynnibus]

Luxury is also defined as something desirable and often expensive but not necessary. I think this is the definition most use when they speak of Disney as a luxury vacation.

But wouldn't that be redundant?

I mean.. all vacations are 'desirable and often expensive but not necessary'

That's like saying "Disney is a luxury luxury"

Luxury in these discussions is usually talking about the offer and service relative to other alternatives/products - not if someone should vacation or not. Disney is priced as a top tier product.. almost gratuitous depending on your choice of accommodations. Yet, it does not offer services and amenities customers are expecting from someone charging those price points.

 

[Heppenheimer]

True. Not disagreeing there.

However, that is one very specific example. In general, travel is a lot more affordable/accessible than in previous generations. Europe and the Caribbean, in particular, are relatively cheap and easy to access.

My parents were going to Lake Erie and Ocean City when they were growing up. They were taking my sister and I to to the Outer Banks. Now, my kids are going to Caribbean islands or on Disney Caribbean cruises.

Even Ocean City has become really expensive. The Caribbean is probably cheaper now.

 

[UNCgolf]

Even Ocean City has become really expensive. The Caribbean is probably cheaper now.

I was just thinking that you could probably go to the Caribbean for less than the Outer Banks.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I usually agree with you most of the time, LOL.
But I disagree that disney is a luxury item. It might have been many years ago. It is an extremely expensive vacation, but misses the mark for luxury in many areas. Also, ROI that is not there anymore (at least for us) makes it just an expensive vacation.

Good point. I really misused the word luxury when describing a WDW vacation!

A WDW vacation is really expensive, for the same (or less) offerings over time and none of the offerings are of a height to be a considered a luxury; the accommodations are very nice, the theme park experience is going down in my opinion, the offerings are becoming less and less while at the same time the prices are constantly going up.

I guess a WDW vacation could be considered a very overpriced non essential.

 

[Chi84]

But wouldn't that be redundant?

I mean.. all vacations are 'desirable and often expensive but not necessary'

That's like saying "Disney is a luxury luxury"

Luxury in these discussions is usually talking about the offer and service relative to other alternatives/products - not if someone should vacation or not. Disney is priced as a top tier product.. almost gratuitous depending on your choice of accommodations. Yet, it does not offer services and amenities customers are expecting from someone charging those price points.

It is a luxury vacation compared to its competitors, at least in my opinion.

You have to compare the overall experience, which is difficult because WDW is so unique.

There are places that have better hotels at a lower price, maybe better transportation at a better price, better kids’ rides at a better price - same with food and so on. And different people place different value on those particular things.

But at WDW it’s all in the same place. It’s what makes comparison so difficult.

 

[flynnibus]

It is a luxury vacation compared to its competitors, at least in my opinion.

Competitors as a theme park? Or as a resort?

That distinction also is helpful because it's possible to be really good at one.. and not at the other. The product isn't necessarily uniform in it's delivery or service level.

I mean, we all know Disney offers world class attractions. They have some of the top (lets use the term) "rated" attractions. But I wouldn't label them "luxury" I would label them "premier" or "top notch" attractions.

Disney has quality facilities - like the bathrooms and grounds. But are they "luxury"? Or just really well maintained? They are decorated, but really elaborate. There aren't premium products or helpers there, etc.

Luxury in terms of amenities and services usually convey great personalization, attention to detail, inclusive, and extended efforts to avoid burden.

You don't goto a 5 star luxury hotel and wait 45mins in a lined queue... because "everyone is the same".. you get service that makes you feel like a king.

That's why I would say "Disney is top quality" in many ways.. but I would never use the term "luxury". I can't really think of anything in a WDW experience that compares with a "luxury" offer you get with true luxury brands.

At the theme park it was soemthing that really stood out to me at Discovery Cove.. it actually did feel more like a classic luxury experience. Very tailored, everything was at your disposal, everything was just provided, you weren't herded like cattle, the guest to employee ratio, the pressure level, etc.

I mean... Disney barely gives you housekeeping.. and is constantly forcing you to self-service everything... nothing like luxury level hotelier services.

The theme parks are mass market -- lacking any personalized services or isolation. Even paid upgrades like Desert parties etc are people contending for shared spaces for a good view, etc. That's not luxury.

At least on the cruise ships you get some elements that are closer to luxury.. like the employee to guest ratios.. the personalization.. the hotelier services... but that is very much in pockets, while other areas are very much still mass market.

 

[Chi84]

Competitors as a theme park? Or as a resort?

That distinction also is helpful because it's possible to be really good at one.. and not at the other. The product isn't necessarily uniform in it's delivery or service level.

I mean, we all know Disney offers world class attractions. They have some of the top (lets use the term) "rated" attractions. But I wouldn't label them "luxury" I would label them "premier" or "top notch" attractions.

Disney has quality facilities - like the bathrooms and grounds. But are they "luxury"? Or just really well maintained? They are decorated, but really elaborate. There aren't premium products or helpers there, etc.

Luxury in terms of amenities and services usually convey great personalization, attention to detail, inclusive, and extended efforts to avoid burden.

You don't goto a 5 star luxury hotel and wait 45mins in a lined queue... because "everyone is the same".. you get service that makes you feel like a king.

That's why I would say "Disney is top quality" in many ways.. but I would never use the term "luxury". I can't really think of anything in a WDW experience that compares with a "luxury" offer you get with true luxury brands.

At the theme park it was soemthing that really stood out to me at Discovery Cove.. it actually did feel more like a classic luxury experience. Very tailored, everything was at your disposal, everything was just provided, you weren't herded like cattle, the guest to employee ratio, the pressure level, etc.

I mean... Disney barely gives you housekeeping.. and is constantly forcing you to self-service everything... nothing like luxury level hotelier services.

The theme parks are mass market -- lacking any personalized services or isolation. Even paid upgrades like Desert parties etc are people contending for shared spaces for a good view, etc. That's not luxury.

At least on the cruise ships you get some elements that are closer to luxury.. like the employee to guest ratios.. the personalization.. the hotelier services... but that is very much in pockets, while other areas are very much still mass market.

Okay, so Disney is a top quality vacation location.

I was just trying to explain that it’s not a luxury vacation in terms of being opulent but it does meet at least one dictionary definition of luxury.

No theme park destination is going to meet my definition of luxurious.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I saw some numbers on this a little while back, but I won't even pretend to remember them even roughly. What it boiled down to though was essentially: "The essential items were affordable while the luxury items were expensive, but now, the essentials are expensive while the luxury is affordable."

Example given, mortgages and rents were a much smaller percentage of income, while furnishing your house (TVs, furniture, fridge, dishwasher, microwave, etc.) was much more expensive. Now, it's the complete inverse.

And that totally scans now

Because the younger generations don’t when try to “save” for houses anymore. Or really anything for that matter…because they won’t get there

So they blow smaller amounts on expensive, less significant products instead

Even Ocean City has become really expensive. The Caribbean is probably cheaper now.

Which ocean city?

 

[DisneyNittany]

But wouldn't that be redundant?

I mean.. all vacations are 'desirable and often expensive but not necessary'

That's like saying "Disney is a luxury luxury"

Luxury in these discussions is usually talking about the offer and service relative to other alternatives/products - not if someone should vacation or not. Disney is priced as a top tier product.. almost gratuitous depending on your choice of accommodations. Yet, it does not offer services and amenities customers are expecting from someone charging those price points.

Yes, all vacations are by definition a "luxury expense".

My OP was in response to the disposable income discussion, not in relation to Disney specifically and if it is a "luxury vacation/resort". Given how it is, however, not essential to survival, it's therefore a "luxury expense". Funny enough though, it's the perfect example of an outlier, in that is not more affordable/accessible.