DHS Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios

[GoofGoof]

Except they were the same project - that construction ended up taking longer on the main component not allowing it to open along with the rest and then counting that as a second thing is basically rewarding them for the delay...

Also, the majority of your list weren't "additions".

And sorry, I think it's pretty sad you had to include something like Launch Bay which was never more than a glorified meet-and-greet that should have closed as soon as the actual land opened but somehow still exists to fill space - why not include the Epcot redevelopment preview center on that list if you're going to use things like that and the singalong that were equally minimal effort (and also another downgraded reskin of a previous attraction)?

I also didn't say decades with an "s". I said decade+ indicating more than 10 years but as I previously conceded, that was forgetting NFL that did add one attraction more than was removed along with a permanent meet-and-greet.

But I guess what I should have said was a decade+ with only the underwhelming NFL in response to Hogsmead and (mostly downgraded) reskins of existing attractions to show for it.

Again, agree to disagree.

There was basically a lost decade or so in there. This is not meant to be an excuse, but that decade started right after the Great Recession and financial crisis in 2008. Most companies hoarded cash and Disney pulled back dramatically on their capital spend too. Since the $1B+ DCA overhaul project (including the original Carsland) was already underway that project went forward. It was actually pretty surprising that project didn’t get scaled back or cancelled outright.

At WDW they started talking about FLE as early as 2007 but due to economic conditions the project didn’t start until 2011. As we’ve been talking about with this current crop of projects they take 3 to 4+ years so it’s understandable why if projects were not getting greenlit at a decent pace during the downturn it took years after the recovery to see new things opening. Starting with Pandora in 2017 they did ramp things up again before the COVID slowdown. This history is a warning of what can happen. The capital spend Disney announced and the projects expected to be built are always going to be subject to macro economic conditions. I don’t think that’s a good reason to leap to the conclusion that none of them will be built, but it’s a risk that’s always out there.

 

[JD80]

Emotions?

It was hyperbole but I can use words that don't suggest basic emotion, too.

How about instead of sad, pretty disingenuous to call them dusting off Main Street Electrical Parade (which premiered at DL in 1972 and WDW in 1977) something new?

How about, a hard stretch to call the Art of Animation and the Grand Destino Tower additions to the parks?

If calling out a list that includes things like that and that tries to pass off magic bands or resort travel as added attractions to the parks is spinning my wheels in your mind, I don't know what to tell you. You responded directly to me with your questionable list which is why I'm responding back to you.

Again, I misspoke and you clearly pointed out that there wasn't literally nothing done as I've conceded but including Disney Springs as an addition to the parks is well... that's also somethin'.

Is that better or should I have just kept it at "sad"?

Look, it's really hard to take seriously, the arguments of a person who wants to include that sort of stuff which seems to be in cynical bad faith and consider that person to not be writing with "intention" (and you seem too intelligent to have included stuff like that by accident) just like I guess it's hard for you to take me seriously.

Again (for the third time), we can agree to disagree or we can keep going if you really want.

My guy, I listed stuff like AoA, the Tower and the parade just to fill in the spaces where there wasn't any major additions to the parks. It's just basically there to provide context.

What I was showing that Disney, in the context of a decade, did add things to the parks. Again if you want to argue how some of those additions were lackluster, I'm sure there is some old threads to do that in.

Again, go look here: https://www.wdwmagic.com/news/2010/all.htm and here: https://www.wdwmagic.com/news/2011/all.htm

This will likely be what we'll see over the next 2 years - hype around construction and hype about lands that haven't started. Except in 2025 and 2026 we'll have 3 parks under construction and Test Track vs. 2010 and 2011 we had just New Fantasyland and speculation about Pandora.

edit: Over the next two years you'll probably see shows and entertainment news too like Zootopia, Little Mermaid show, and the Villains Show.

 

[JD80]

There was basically a lost decade or so in there. This is not meant to be an excuse, but that decade started right after the Great Recession and financial crisis in 2008. Most companies hoarded cash and Disney pulled back dramatically on their capital spend too. Since the $1B+ DCA overhaul project (including the original Carsland) was already underway that project went forward. It was actually pretty surprising that project didn’t get scaled back or cancelled outright.

At WDW they started talking about FLE as early as 2007 but due to economic conditions the project didn’t start until 2011. As we’ve been talking about with this current crop of projects they take 3 to 4+ years so it’s understandable why if projects were not getting greenlit at a decent pace during the downturn it took years after the recovery to see new things opening. Starting with Pandora in 2017 they did ramp things up again before the COVID slowdown. This history is a warning of what can happen. The capital spend Disney announced and the projects expected to be built are always going to be subject to macro economic conditions. I don’t think that’s a good reason to leap to the conclusion that none of them will be built, but it’s a risk that’s always out there.

Oh a reasonable post with context about time and place.

I think you forgot to shrug off the pandemic as nothing.

 

[GoofGoof]

Oh a reasonable post with context about time and place.

I think you forgot to shrug off the pandemic as nothing.

The interesting thing about the pandemic is that the recovery for theme parks was actually much faster than a lot of analysts expected. Back in 2020 the consensus was that it would take at least 5 years to return to 2019 levels. Nobody anticipated the extent of revenge travel or how quickly the overall economy would recover. If you remember back to 2020/2021 almost every economist was predicting a recession which never happened. If it really took 5 years as anticipated we would be a year away from a return to normal levels. If That happened I doubt Disney would have committed the billions they did and D23 would have been scaled back.

Covid is a valid excuse for construction delays but some of the delays WDW experienced went above and beyond. It took them longer to redo Communicore Hall than to build the entire original EPCOT Center. Rat could have probably opened months earlier and both Tron and Guardians were slow played to adjust for expected visitor levels.

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

The interesting thing about the pandemic is that the recovery for theme parks was actually much faster than a lot of analysts expected. Back in 2020 the consensus was that it would take at least 5 years to return to 2019 levels. Nobody anticipated the extent of revenge travel or how quickly the overall economy would recover. If you remember back to 2020/2021 almost every economist was predicting a recession which never happened. If it really took 5 years as anticipated we would be a year away from a return to normal levels. If That happened I doubt Disney would have committed the billions they did and D23 would have been scaled back.

Covid is a valid excuse for construction delays but some of the delays WDW experienced went above and beyond. It took them longer to redo Communicore Hall than to build the entire original EPCOT Center. Rat could have probably opened months earlier and both Tron and Guardians were slow played to adjust for expected visitor levels.

Getting into the weeds here but there was a short recession in 2020 where we experienced two consecutive quarters of GDP decline. Analysts spent the next two years anticipating another recession but it never happened. Analysts make a career out of getting things wrong.

Getting back on track, we took a weeklong vacation to Disney in the summer of 2021. It was easily one of the best trips we've taken to the parks. Not busy, no fast pass, super affordable.

 

[JD80]

The interesting thing about the pandemic is that the recovery for theme parks was actually much faster than a lot of analysts expected. Back in 2020 the consensus was that it would take at least 5 years to return to 2019 levels. Nobody anticipated the extent of revenge travel or how quickly the overall economy would recover. If you remember back to 2020/2021 almost every economist was predicting a recession which never happened. If it really took 5 years as anticipated we would be a year away from a return to normal levels. If That happened I doubt Disney would have committed the billions they did and D23 would have been scaled back.

Covid is a valid excuse for construction delays but some of the delays WDW experienced went above and beyond. It took them longer to redo Communicore Hall than to build the entire original EPCOT Center. Rat could have probably opened months earlier and both Tron and Guardians were slow played to adjust for expected visitor levels.

Spending has recovered but attendance has not. It's still a growth segment though for the business.

All the delays of 2020 through 2024 (Tron through EPCOT) were a combination of need and excuses I agree.

 

[MrPromey]

There was basically a lost decade or so in there. This is not meant to be an excuse, but that decade started right after the Great Recession and financial crisis in 2008. Most companies hoarded cash and Disney pulled back dramatically on their capital spend too. Since the $1B+ DCA overhaul project (including the original Carsland) was already underway that project went forward. It was actually pretty surprising that project didn’t get scaled back or cancelled outright.

At WDW they started talking about FLE as early as 2007 but due to economic conditions the project didn’t start until 2011. As we’ve been talking about with this current crop of projects they take 3 to 4+ years so it’s understandable why if projects were not getting greenlit at a decent pace during the downturn it took years after the recovery to see new things opening. Starting with Pandora in 2017 they did ramp things up again before the COVID slowdown. This history is a warning of what can happen. The capital spend Disney announced and the projects expected to be built are always going to be subject to macro economic conditions. I don’t think that’s a good reason to leap to the conclusion that none of them will be built, but it’s a risk that’s always out there.

Except much of this decade, Disney was making money hand-over-fist. This was the heyday of the MCU and before D+ started siphoning money like crazy. This is also when the parks began to really struggle with supply/demand and overcrowding - remember this is when they cut down all those trees in the hub and expanded it out to create more space for the ever-increasing crowds?.. before making the decision to take about 50% of that extra space they'd created to handle that and turn it into an up-charge, that is.

They clearly knew back then that attendance was growing and their solution to that across property was FP+ rather than additional attraction capacity.

At least here they're expanding the footprint in HS with where this attraction is going so I'll give them that. If this comes to pass and we get the ride and the show (and the show turns out to be roughly the same length as Muppetvision) it's at least a net gain - it's the kind that should have happened more than a decade ago along with other stuff but seeing is believing so we'll see.

 

[Bocabear]

The last thing WDW needs is another gate... We would end up with yet one more half-day park with 5 attractions and all development for their existing parks would grind to a halt. ( I would not mind Grinding the Cars addition to the MK to a halt)...They need to give the World Showcase a few more attractions, Animal Kingdom has the space for some decent expansion...Hollywood Studios can still use more (Monsters is going to help)... But to build another new park... That is so unnecessary. They need to expand the monorail system... get rid of the busses and add another more efficient and easier transportation system... Linking all guest areas including Disney Springs... all before even thinking about another gate....

 

[MrPromey]

The last thing WDW needs is another gate... We would end up with yet one more half-day park with 5 attractions and all development for their existing parks would grind to a halt. ( I would not mind Grinding the Cars addition to the MK to a halt)...They need to give the World Showcase a few more attractions, Animal Kingdom has the space for some decent expansion...Hollywood Studios can still use more (Monsters is going to help)... But to build another new park... That is so unnecessary. They need to expand the monorail system... get rid of the busses and add another more efficient and easier transportation system... Linking all guest areas including Disney Springs... all before even thinking about another gate....

I agree with just about everything here except the Monorail.

I don't expect we will ever see an expansion of that - not when the current trains are so far past their originally anticipated life-expectancy that they would qualify for antiuqe licence plates in the state of Florida if they were cars and there aren't even rumors of plans to update what they already have.

Why WDW opened with them makes sense. The expansion for Epcot also makes sense due to the nature of that park and the size of WDW during that period but the cost combined with increasingly complex sprawl of the property has made that kind of mass fixed rail system a very expensive and impractical solution to the type of traffic patterns they experience.

Besides being relatively cheap, the busses are easy to scale up and down not just during seasons but times of day and can be re-routed to prioritize immediate needs in real time. They're not the most elegant form of travel and I understand why people don't like them - I don't particularly like them - but Disney's future transit needs would benefit far more from some kind of replacement or enhancement to that system that offers or expands that level of flexibility far more than additional fixed rail or cable systems.

A traditional rapid transit system looks cool, especially monorails and especially for people not visiting from heavily urban areas where rail-based systems are common but that type of transportation doesn't suit the needs of guest flow for WDW in the 21's century.

 

[BrianLo]

This will likely be what we'll see over the next 2 years - hype around construction and hype about lands that haven't started. Except in 2025 and 2026 we'll have 3 parks under construction and Test Track vs. 2010 and 2011 we had just New Fantasyland and speculation about Pandora.

edit: Over the next two years you'll probably see shows and entertainment news too like Zootopia, Little Mermaid show, and the Villains Show.

Considering how scaled back the pipeline was made under Chapek/pandemic conditions etc etc I actually think this looks like a pretty solid 2025 they have cobbled together.

I’m not an annual goer to WDW and I have an “8 new things” policy when it comes to my patronage; with the exception for major new lands. I’m highly driven by new unlike a significant subset on this forum; I’m going to stop being ashamed of that.

We are shockingly approaching my threshold already next year. Though I don’t factor the lounges. I was not anticipating that. While I’m not going to spend any substantial money with WDW until Jan 2027 + Dec 2027, they have somehow tricked me into grafting days onto my ‘dedicated’ Universal trip. Between free water park access, Destinations that just so happens to align with my dates, a moonlight magic at DHS I’m now quite happy to attend for the new shows and finally the more restrictive Uni Epic ticketing policy.

 

[celluloid]

Covid is a valid excuse for construction delays but some of the delays WDW experienced went above and beyond. It took them longer to redo Communicore Hall than to build the entire original EPCOT Center. Rat could have probably opened months earlier and both Tron and Guardians were slow played to adjust for expected visitor levels.

Yeah. And that is especially egregious when we have pointed out they can build fast when they want to. They could have lost six months plu due to Covid and made up for the lost time.

King's Island and others completed projects during the same time, without even mentioning how much Universal did.

 

[GoofGoof]

Considering how scaled back the pipeline was made under Chapek/pandemic conditions etc etc I actually think this looks like a pretty solid 2025 they have cobbled together.

View attachment 828954

I’m not an annual goer to WDW and I have an “8 new things” policy when it comes to my patronage; with the exception for major new lands. I’m highly driven by new unlike a significant subset on this forum; I’m going to stop being ashamed of that.

We are shockingly approaching my threshold already next year. Though I don’t factor the lounges. I was not anticipating that. While I’m not going to spend any substantial money with WDW until Jan 2027 + Dec 2027, they have somehow tricked me into grafting days onto my ‘dedicated’ Universal trip. Between free water park access, Destinations that just so happens to align with my dates, a moonlight magic at DHS I’m now quite happy to attend for the new shows and finally the more restrictive Uni Epic ticketing policy.

I am not planning any time in Orlando in 2025 but if you take these mostly smaller offerings and add to it a whole new park there will certainly be a lot of reasons for someone to visit.

 

[EagleScout610]

Considering how scaled back the pipeline was made under Chapek/pandemic conditions etc etc I actually think this looks like a pretty solid 2025 they have cobbled together.

View attachment 828954

Surprised they didn't put a vague date for MuppetVision or RnRC closing since work on Monstropolis supposedly begins next year

 

[BrianLo]

Surprised they didn't put a vague date for MuppetVision or RnRC closing since work on Monstropolis supposedly begins next year

It markets a lot worse when you are like “also your last chance to see the Rivers, MV3D, RnRC and especially fan fave pizzarizzo”.

 

[EagleScout610]

It markets a lot worse when you are like “also your last chance to see the Rivers, MV3D, RnRC and especially fan fave pizzarizzo”.

The lines for PizzaRizzo may bring the park, maybe even the entire resort, to capacity that day

 

[JD80]

Considering how scaled back the pipeline was made under Chapek/pandemic conditions etc etc I actually think this looks like a pretty solid 2025 they have cobbled together.

View attachment 828954

I’m not an annual goer to WDW and I have an “8 new things” policy when it comes to my patronage; with the exception for major new lands. I’m highly driven by new unlike a significant subset on this forum; I’m going to stop being ashamed of that.

We are shockingly approaching my threshold already next year. Though I don’t factor the lounges. I was not anticipating that. While I’m not going to spend any substantial money with WDW until Jan 2027 + Dec 2027, they have somehow tricked me into grafting days onto my ‘dedicated’ Universal trip. Between free water park access, Destinations that just so happens to align with my dates, a moonlight magic at DHS I’m now quite happy to attend for the new shows and finally the more restrictive Uni Epic ticketing policy.

Better go late 2025!

 

[Rockishcoco]

Can someone make another decade list with the rides and experiences removed or never built?

In total not impressed

Sorry to veer back to this and its probably incomplete but

2011/12 - Removed: Snow White's Scary Adventure
Cancelled: 'Birthday Surprise for Princess Aurora”, “Dreams Come True with Cinderella”, Pixie Hollow. (Arguably an upgrade with 7DMT and expanded Storybook Circus).
2013/14 - Removed: American Idol, Maelstrom, Camp Minnie Mickey, Backlot Tour, HISTK Playground/Streets of America, Lights Motors Action
Cancelled: Hyperion Wharf (upgraded to Disney Springs)
2017/18 - Removed: Ellen’s Energy Adventure, Great Movie ride
Cancelled: Main Street Theatre, Reflections (Born again as off a couple months ago)
2019 - Removed: Innoventions, EPCOT Spine
Cancelled: Wondorous China, Mary Poppins UK, PLAY Pavillion, Original Festival Center, SSE Re-do, various EPCOT hub stuff.
2023 - Removed: Splash Mountain
Cancelled: ?

Obviously doesn't include non-WDW projects or things that got value-engineered down in construction and I probably missed a thing or two. Still, outside of the Covid EPCOT cuts, I think it's not terrible as far as cancelled projects. The only big loss (outside of Epcot) is the Main Street Theater.

 

[JackCH]

Sorry to veer back to this and its probably incomplete but

2011/12 - Removed: Snow White's Scary Adventure
Cancelled: 'Birthday Surprise for Princess Aurora”, “Dreams Come True with Cinderella”, Pixie Hollow. (Arguably an upgrade with 7DMT and expanded Storybook Circus).
2013/14 - Removed: American Idol, Maelstrom, Camp Minnie Mickey, Backlot Tour, HISTK Playground/Streets of America, Lights Motors Action
Cancelled: Hyperion Wharf (upgraded to Disney Springs)
2017/18 - Removed: Ellen’s Energy Adventure, Great Movie ride
Cancelled: Main Street Theatre, Reflections (Born again as off a couple months ago)
2019 - Removed: Innoventions, EPCOT Spine
Cancelled: Wondorous China, Mary Poppins UK, PLAY Pavillion, Original Festival Center, SSE Re-do, various EPCOT hub stuff.
2023 - Removed: Splash Mountain
Cancelled: ?

Obviously doesn't include non-WDW projects or things that got value-engineered down in construction and I probably missed a thing or two. Still, outside of the Covid EPCOT cuts, I think it's not terrible as far as cancelled projects. The only big loss (outside of Epcot) is the Main Street Theater.

Main Street Theater does make me sad though. Would have been great to have a major attraction on Main Street just to spread traffic.

 

[MrPromey]

Yeah. And that is especially egregious when we have pointed out they can build fast when they want to. They could have lost six months plu due to Covid and made up for the lost time.

King's Island and others completed projects during the same time, without even mentioning how much Universal did.

I find the Epcot spine particularly egregious. New attractions or reworked attractions off to the side being slow-rolled are one thing but they were way too comfortable leaving the front half of that park a torn up mess for way too long.

Things like that which directly impact guest's existing experiences, that negatively impact the park they've paid to go into should be prioritized but clearly, the experience of paying guests was not a major concern for leadership for those years.

... and of course, this was all happening while the rat ride was sitting, allegedly ready to go at the other end of the park with the doors locked waiting for the right marketing time to let people in, which in isolation, like I said at the start, whatever but that might have been a nice consolation for what was happening at the front.

This isn't that kind of company anymore, though.

 

[GoofGoof]

I find the Epcot spine particularly egregious. New attractions or reworked attractions off to the side being slow-rolled are one thing but they were way too comfortable leaving the front half of that park a torn up mess for way too long.

Things like that which directly impact guest's existing experiences, that negatively impact the park they've paid to go into should be prioritized but clearly, the experience of paying guests was not a major concern for leadership for those years.

... and of course, this was all happening while the rat ride was sitting, allegedly ready to go at the other end of the park with the doors locked waiting for the right marketing time to let people in, which in isolation, like I said at the start, whatever but that might have been a nice consolation for what was happening at the front.

This isn't that kind of company anymore, though.

Rat was held back to open for the 50th. I was there in August 2021 when they were finally doing CM previews but we couldn’t get in. The gift shop with the Ratatouille merch still managed to open ahead of the ride

There‘s no good excuse for doing that and the crowds were so low that Summer it would have been an ideal time to open and work out the kinks.