DHS Monster Inc Land Coming to Disney's Hollywood Studios

[MrPromey]

And if Disney didn't announce the line-up for the next 3-5 years, they'd be pilloried here "for doing nothing!" And it would be interpreted as Disney abandoning the parks and not caring. Or, interpreted as Disney "being in trouble."

This is a toxic fandom.

Except this is ignoring how Disney's been doing things:

Taking a decade (or more) off from updates/expansions (where they did do nothing) since the central Florida market was allegedly "mature" although not too mature for more DVC, then announcing things years in advance, only to quietly kill many projects and budget cut others.

Lets not forget the not too distant D23 where all they had to announce were blue sky projects because they literally had nothing in development to even talk about only to have nearly all of that end up being absolutely nothing when they announced almost all completely different things at the next D23 for the same spaces two years later.

I'm not going to ding them for delays since obviously, COVID happened but it's not exactly like they started moving at lightning speeds with anything once the parks were open again.

All the while, they market as if future expansion (that history has taught us, may in some cases never even happen) is a reason for people to visit now... and somehow, that seems to actually work.

As for those of us here, are we ever who they market or announce to?

I mean, do they need to with us?

For the people who complain but still line up to give them money, what's the problem from management's perspective if people want to edit a few mean picks of Bob and Josh? I'm sure they're crying into their pillows stuffed with cash each night worrying about what we're all saying, here - you know?

 

[MrPromey]

I find it interesting (and quite mysterious) that we haven’t heard much of anything from insiders re: their thoughts on the scale and/or quality and/or immersion-level of the door coaster.

I don’t know whether to expect something that’ll blow our minds—with a detailed queue, multiple preshows, grand sets, and amazing effects—or something that’ll just be “fun” a la Tron.

Based on the model they presented, I’m begrudgingly guessing it’s closer to the latter (even though they have decades of expectations to live up to… or fall short of). I hope I’m mistaken, of course.

My suggestion is going in with the lowest possible expectations.

At worst, you'll get what you expected and at best, you'll be shocked and delighted.

IMHO, giving in to any of their hype and expecting this to be amazing is setting yourself up for disappointment.

 

[celluloid]

And if Disney didn't announce the line-up for the next 3-5 years, they'd be pilloried here "for doing nothing!" And it would be interpreted as Disney abandoning the parks and not caring. Or, interpreted as Disney "being in trouble."

This is a toxic fandom.

As far as construction goes...until the shovels hit the dirt. It is lip service. Villians land, Indy, and door coaster are no coincidence They can be doing nothing and later still not be doing enough; both can be true. There is also not.much value I crease until the new product and services are open.
Is it still toxic fandom when more people are speaking with their wallets as the company is still not moving much forward? There is no need for undying advocacy. And toxic fandom to.me is more personal threats and such. People are free to critique and dislike as much as they are to be unwavering advocates.
People are speaking from experience from the company's past of over promising and underdelivering frequently.

 

[Mr. Sullivan]

If you want to argue Ratatouille was Disney’s response to EU, go ahead. I doubt many folks will see that as a serious argument.

Why do they need to respond, though? They don't have to constantly be matching each other pound for pound. It's not really in either of them's best interest to stay in a constant cycle of "they did this, so we're going to do that". It's good sometimes, but other times each resort needs to just do things for internal reasons, not external reasons. We've seen how bad it can be when one of them rushes to respond to the other.

Not everything is a competition, and I doubt seriously that either Disney or Universal wants everything to be a competition. There are times for them to lock horns, and then there are times where they should focus on themselves.

 

[The Leader of the Club]

Nothing that Disney could have done this year would outshine Epic.
If they opened a new land in DAK for instance, it would probably not suffer as much but DHS & EPCOT likely would.
If Disney had rushed out a fifth gate? All of the other parks would suffer attendance drops.
I think the best strategy is to open enough little things this year to get locals to come check them out and discount room rates to entice Epic guests to give more days to Disney.

 

[GoofGoof]

This is disingenuous. If Disney built at an adequate, consistent rate and announced 1 year in advance they would be announcing just as much as they currently do - minus the misleading announcements on which they never follow through. If announcing later means they announce less, it just demonstrates how many of their announcements are dishonest.

I think it’s pretty unrealistic to wait until a year prior to open to announce projects. Between construction walls up and permits filed and insiders with info and thousands of workers on site there’s zero chance the projects are not leaked out. Go back and look at the pictures of the construction updates from a project like Galaxy’s Edge a year prior to opening. No way they are hiding that. Disney is also a public company with quarterly SEC filings that sometimes require disclosures around major projects once the spend gets material.

If you wanted them to cancel the D23 events and just announce projects once ground is broken through one off press releases that may be more realistic. They could also not publicly release concept art prior to the media and advertising blitz that happens a few months before the rides open. I have no issue with seeing the early concept art to see what they are thinking about building. I just go in knowing that it’s possible to change before the final product.

 

[JD80]

Who cares when Disney announces things. Either pay attention or not.

Who cares if some projects get cancelled, stuff happens.

Move on, hug a loved one or whatever.

 

[JD80]

Except this is ignoring how Disney's been doing things:

Taking a decade (or more) off from updates/expansions (where they did do nothing) since the central Florida market was allegedly "mature" although not too mature for more DVC, then announcing things years in advance, only to quietly kill many projects and budget cut others.

What decade is this?

2012 - New Fantasyland, AoA
2013 - Magic Bands/Anna Elsa M&G/FP+/Galactic Spectacular
2014 - 7DMT, Path of the Jedi, Frozen Sing a Long
2015 - SW Launch Pay, Disney Springs (kinda)
2016 - Frozen Ever After
2017 - Pandora, Rivers of Light, HEA
2018 - Toy Story Land
2019 - SWGE, Skyliner, Grand Destino Tower
2020 - MMRR
2021 - Remy, Enchantment, Harmonious (lol)
2022 - Guardians of the Galaxy
2023 - Tron, Journey of Water, HEA2, Epcot Re-do
2024 - TBA, Epcot Re-do

Because of Chapek, the two lightest years in the last 12 will be the next two.

WDW peaked in 2019 because it had a run up of three brand new lands in 2017, 2018 and 2019 which all were announced earlier in that decade.

We should see a similar attendance buildup as Villains is we did at SWGE.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I think it’s pretty unrealistic to wait until a year prior to open to announce projects. Between construction walls up and permits filed and insiders with info and thousands of workers on site there’s zero chance the projects are not leaked out. Go back and look at the pictures of the construction updates from a project like Galaxy’s Edge a year prior to opening. No way they are hiding that. Disney is also a public company with quarterly SEC filings that sometimes require disclosures around major projects once the spend gets material.

If you wanted them to cancel the D23 events and just announce projects once ground is broken through one off press releases that may be more realistic. They could also not publicly release concept art prior to the media and advertising blitz that happens a few months before the rides open. I have no issue with seeing the early concept art to see what they are thinking about building. I just go in knowing that it’s possible to change before the final product.

I mean, they could do what Universal does…

When did Universal officially announce the details of EU? Do you think that will ultimately hurt EU?

 

[Casper Gutman]

What decade is this?

2012 - New Fantasyland, AoA
2013 - Magic Bands/Anna Elsa M&G/FP+/Galactic Spectacular
2014 - 7DMT, Path of the Jedi, Frozen Sing a Long
2015 - SW Launch Pay, Disney Springs (kinda)
2016 - Frozen Ever After
2017 - Pandora, Rivers of Light, HEA
2018 - Toy Story Land
2019 - SWGE, Skyliner, Grand Destino Tower
2020 - MMRR
2021 - Remy, Enchantment, Harmonious (lol)
2022 - Guardians of the Galaxy
2023 - Tron, Journey of Water, HEA2, Epcot Re-do
2024 - TBA, Epcot Re-do

Because of Chapek, the two lightest years in the last 12 will be the next two.

WDW peaked in 2019 because it had a run up of three brand new lands in 2017, 2018 and 2019 which all were announced earlier in that decade.

We should see a similar attendance buildup as Villains is we did at SWGE.

The decade in question (more than a decade, actually) is the one ending in 2017. Which is why you’re listing things like Launch Bay, Meet and Greets, and Magic Bands to obscure it.

Poor Iger, powerless in the face of the mighty Chapek.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I am not trying to shine a good light on anything. You are clearly looking to shine a negative light so maybe that’s why you assume I’m trying to do the opposite. I am dealing in facts not emotion. I am not defending Disney for taking 3+ years for these projects. They certainly could build faster if motivated. They aren’t motivated.

Once a project gets to the point of breaking ground Disney has a pretty solid track record of completing on schedule (Covid projects aside) and most recent projects have taken 3-4 years to build. Ground has all but broken on Tropical Americas. I have a lot of confidence it will be done by end of 2027. If Monsters breaks ground in 2025 I have a lot of confidence we‘ll see it by 2028 and if the MK projects break ground in 2025/2026 both should be open before 2030. You said we wont see any of these projects for 5-7 years which would be 2029 to 2031. I think there’s a better chance that all 4 open before the calendar turns to 2030 then none opening until 2029. My gut still says one opens each year 2027-2030 so Villians last in 2030.

Your pure logic has resulted in good analysis.

I will use my human emotion to expect the worst and hope for the best.

Lets regroup in 3 years to see where we are at.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Big thing I recall them saying was that work in MK and DHS would be going full steam in 2025.

Looking forward to see many, many walls up in 2025.

Actually it makes sense all this work starting to coincide with the opening of EPIC. Disney can say attendance is down due to the construction.

 

[GoofGoof]

I mean, they could do what Universal does…

When did Universal officially announce the details of EU? Do you think that will ultimately hurt EU?

That is my point. Not announcing EU didn’t mean nobody knew it was coming. Most of the major details were leaked out anyway. I am also sure stuff originally planned for EU was cut just like any Disney project. They have budgets and cost overruns too and Wall Street to impress. I guess my point is I actually prefer to have some concept art and details to discuss or debate. You just have to know going in that things will likely change. What’s the harm.

 

[Casper Gutman]

That is my point. Not announcing EU didn’t mean nobody knew it was coming. Most of the major details were leaked out anyway. I am also sure stuff originally planned for EU was cut just like any Disney project. They have budgets and cost overruns too and Wall Street to impress. I guess my point is I actually prefer to have some concept art and details to discuss or debate. You just have to know going in that things will likely change. What’s the harm.

There was absolutely no lack of discussion about EU before the official announcement.

Universal much, much less often announces things they don’t build. Sure, a lot (too much) was cut from EU, but Uni never cynically benefitted from announcing those attractions and then not building them. Disney announcements are PR largely divorced from the final project - it’s something to get the suckers at D23 excited or to cover the removal of a beloved ride and if it never gets built, so what? Disney won’t suffer.

 

[GoofGoof]

Your pure logic has resulted in good analysis.

I will use my human emotion to expect the worst and hope for the best.

Lets regroup in 3 years to see where we are at.

Sure thing. By the end of 2027 I would expect to see Tropical Americas open and Monsters near completion or maybe even open itself. Back corner of MK will still be a large construction site but if they want to open Cars by 2029 we should have some vertical construction (mountains) above the construction walls by end of 2027.

I am curious to see when the construction walls go up around the river. I assume they will put up walls from HM all the way around to BTMRR before draining the river but then there’s a lot of groundwork and leveling to be done before starting on the actual land. Lots of construction photo updates for the next few years.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Why do they need to respond, though? They don't have to constantly be matching each other pound for pound. It's not really in either of them's best interest to stay in a constant cycle of "they did this, so we're going to do that". It's good sometimes, but other times each resort needs to just do things for internal reasons, not external reasons. We've seen how bad it can be when one of them rushes to respond to the other.

Not everything is a competition, and I doubt seriously that either Disney or Universal wants everything to be a competition. There are times for them to lock horns, and then there are times where they should focus on themselves.

Oh, it definitely is a competition.

Disney wants to be King of Orlando for the prestige branding, but also it allows for premium prices.

So, IOW... $$$

The problem here is that some make EU to be sorta like a WDW-killer/swatter. Yes, it definitely is a step up for Uni. And I hope it's successful. Disney could stand a little pressure from competition. But it won't be a WDW-killer/swatter.

Disney has been adding as much capex that their free cash flow would allow for the past 7 years. And now, they'll have a lot more free cash in the coming decade.

But keep in mind: Disney has other children... Anaheim, Paris, Hong Kong, and Shanghai. All those parks need some love, too. So, yeah, Disney is putting up 11-ish new rides... but spread throughout the world -- not just in Orlando.

 

[celluloid]

Who cares when Disney announces things. Either pay attention or not.

Who cares if some projects get cancelled, stuff happens.

Move on, hug a loved one or whatever.

Wdw discussion board and people who are stakeholders as various levels and degrees here.

 

[GoofGoof]

There was absolutely no lack of discussion about EU before the official announcement.

Universal much, much less often announces things they don’t build. Sure, a lot (too much) was cut from EU, but Uni never cynically benefitted from announcing those attractions and then not building them. Disney announcements are PR largely divorced from the final project - it’s something to get the suckers at D23 excited or to cover the removal of a beloved ride and if it never gets built, so what? Disney won’t suffer.

I don’t disagree with any of this, but I still prefer the more open release of info even if that means sometimes being disappointed if it doesn’t happen.

 

[JD80]

The decade in question (more than a decade, actually) is the one ending in 2017. Which is why you’re listing things like Launch Bay, Meet and Greets, and Magic Bands to obscure it.

Poor Iger, powerless in the face of the mighty Chapek.

Are we talking about 2006 through 2016?

Did this really quick, ignored all the DVC and restaurant stuff.

2006 - Finding Nemo, Mission Space Alt, Expedition Everest
2007 - The Seas with Nemo and Friends, Laugh Floor, Grand Fiesta Tour
2008 - Toy Story Mania
2009 - American Idol
2010 - Main Street Electrical Parade
2011 - Disney Jr Live on Stage (also Free Wireless Internet 30 day Pilot), Star Tours Refurb
2012 - New Fantasyland, AoA
2013 - Magic Bands/Anna Elsa M&G/FP+/Galactic Spectacular
2014 - 7DMT, Path of the Jedi, Frozen Sing a Long
2015 - SW Launch Pay, Disney Springs (kinda)
2016 - Frozen Ever After

2010/2011 was pretty empty but it was full of New Fantasyland ramp up and Pandora announcement.

 

[JD80]

Wdw discussion board and people who are stakeholders as various levels and degrees here.

I just don't understand people strong opinion on announcement timing. It's interesting to discuss the whys and hows but I don't think it's worth having a strong reaction to.