DAK 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

[celluloid]

No doubt you can MAKE anything fit with some creativity.

No one is saying they are just going to put DL's theme or Tokyo DIsney's in there.(although setting much closer to Tokyo's)

What is done is if you MAKE something fit so much, you help it fit a little better into the big picture. But compromise the character.

Indy works in Adventureland organically.
Indy works in Tokyo Disney Sea organically.

Because the movie is famous for its physical stunts and the focus was that you are watching the stunt production not the character, it has fit in MGM/Hollywood Studios, organically.

You can alter Indy's personality or make him someone who learns to think for animals or environment as he does something, and that works.

However, you have changed the property and character.


Like, many accept Monsters Inc Laugh Floor because of Scifi often including Monsters. And the energy source fits better than the fact that they are monsters themselves. And it is still a rough fit.


We don't want Disney E tickets and lands themed to the park's concept as a whole the way the Cheesecake Factory is themed to Cheesecake. Its associative, but organic and often times not cerebral.

 

[haveyoumetmark]

No doubt you can MAKE anything fit with some creativity.

No one is saying they are just going to put DL's theme or Tokyo DIsney's in there.(although setting much closer to Tokyo's)

What is done is if you MAKE something fit so much, you help it fit a little better into the big picture. But compromise the character.

Indy works in Adventureland organically.
Indy works in Tokyo Disney Sea organically.

Because the movie is famous for its physical stunts and the focus was that you are watching the stunt production not the character, it has fit in MGM/Hollywood Studios, organically.

You can alter Indy's personality or make him someone who learns to think for animals or environment as he does something, and that works.

However, you have changed the property and character.


Like, many accept Monsters Inc Laugh Floor because of Scifi often including Monsters. And the energy source fits better than the fact that they are monsters themselves. And it is still a rough fit.


We don't want Disney E tickets and lands themed to the park's concept as a whole the way the Cheesecake Factory is themed to Cheesecake. Its associative, but organic and often times not cerebral.

If Indy is exploring the temple of an ancient culture that worshipped animals or otherwise had some sort of strong connection to nature (as most if not all did) then it will work in DAK as you say organically too without changing the property or character.

 

[celluloid]

If Indy is exploring the temple of an ancient culture that worshipped animals or otherwise had some sort of strong connection to nature (as most if not all did) then it will work in DAK as you say organically too without changing the property or character.

That part yes.

Indy is irrelevant to the adventure at that point. You have just described Serka Zong. So a similar theme and concept fits even though repeated well around the corner.

What Indy does, is raid temples and set fire to animals while searching for idols or stopping bad ideologies of cultures. That is his archetype. What does Indy do when he gets in?

 

[peter11435]

That part yes.

Indy is irrelevant to the adventure at that point. You have just described Serka Zong. So a similar theme and concept fits even though repeated well around the corner.

What Indy does, is raid temples and set fire to animals while searching for idols or stopping bad ideologies of cultures. That is his archetype. What does Indy do when he gets in?

This is the problem with Indy I have been pointing out here for years. As it exists Indy doesn’t fit DAK. Either it diverges from the theme of everything else in the park, it initiates a change to the overall theme of the park, or Indy himself is changed and altered to fit the theme of the park. Since the park has maintained its identity for the past 25 years I’d hate to see the first two options and I don’t know why we would want to see the third. At that point why Indy and why there.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

I'd recommend you pull quotes for this sort of thing in the future rather than just allowing yourself to misremember, because I haven't said that.

Based on what I was being told was to be done, I was open to the possibility of The Hatbox Ghost in the Endless Hall, execution pending - and unfortunately the execution let me down, as it has many of us. I do understand the reasons for the placement, but I don't ultimately like it.

Indy's inclusion in Animal Kingdom is nothing like that. Their treatment is Rohde-esque and the transformation will be thorough, with notable impressive elements along the way. I wouldn't be shocked to hear Joe Rohde was involved in the development, but at the very least it's surely gotten his approval since he's been back as a consultant to WDI. It's a good take.

You risk damaging others' reputations by suggesting they've said things they haven't, and I'd recommend you not do that in the future.

I wasn't aware that you changed your mind for the final product. I must have missed that update, sorry. There's no reason to be so aggressive though, I wasn't trying to slander you, I was just making a note about how differing opinions work.

I never understood how it could possibly be a good idea. The concept didn't look good, and taking attention away from the hallway and changing the lighting was a huge red flag even before seeing the final product. Some things you can just tell are bad ideas long before they're built.

I'm a huge defender of Rohde, he has a good record for the most part. But he isn't perfect, see Chester and Hester or Mission Breakout (I don't blame him for either existing, but he has still praised their cheapness). And not everything that looks good conceptually turns out well in the final version.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

This is the problem with Indy I have been pointing out here for years. As it exists Indy doesn’t fit DAK. Either it diverges from the theme of everything else in the park, it initiates a change to the overall theme of the park, or Indy himself is changed and altered to fit the theme of the park. Since the park has maintained its identity for the past 25 years I’d hate to see the first two options and I don’t know why we would want to see the third. At that point why Indy and why there.

Or they do a secret 4th thing.

It's not that crazy difficult to find an adventure for Indy that makes sense for both him and the park.

Or if it is, lucky us because it seems like they've found one.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

What else would the insufferable purists complain about?

Not only is this post rude, but I think you're dead wrong about what most people see as the problem with this expansion.

Nobody is saying a Tropical Americas land wouldn't be a perfect fit in Animal Kingdom, and very few people actually have a problem with the IP presented if they are woven into animal/nature centered original stories, which is certainly possible seeing what has been done with Pandora. The real problem is that there's no reason to kill all of Dinoland (especially Dinosaur) when this park has ample expansion space. Plain and simple.

 

[celluloid]

This is the problem with Indy I have been pointing out here for years. As it exists Indy doesn’t fit DAK. Either it diverges from the theme of everything else in the park, it initiates a change to the overall theme of the park, or Indy himself is changed and altered to fit the theme of the park. Since the park has maintained its identity for the past 25 years I’d hate to see the first two options and I don’t know why we would want to see the third. At that point why Indy and why there.

We have our disagreements...


I will say, you put this eloquently and I happen to agree 100 percent. Thanks for stating this.

No matter what. Either the park has to change or the source material's character does.

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

I wasn't aware that you changed your mind for the final product. I must have missed that update, sorry. There's no reason to be so aggressive though, I wasn't trying to slander you, I was just making a note about how differing opinions work.

I never understood how it could possibly be a good idea. The concept didn't look good, and taking attention away from the hallway and changing the lighting was a huge red flag even before seeing the final product. Some things you can just tell are bad ideas long before they're built.

I'm a huge defender of Rohde, he has a good record for the most part. But he isn't perfect, see Chester and Hester or Mission Breakout (I don't blame him for either existing, but he has still praised their cheapness). And not everything that looks good conceptually turns out well in the final version.

No, let's back up again - I didn't "change my mind".

I was told that WDI had something up their sleeve, and was willing to wait to see how it turned out before passing judgement. What was described to me was not what was eventually built (that's a simple way of putting it, since I'm not at liberty to share all the details), so viewing the scene as installed let me make my decision. As it stands on its own within the ride, I don't like the placement of WDW's Hatbox Ghost.

Do you see now why I'm getting defensive? Come with the correct energy if you want to be met with it in turn.

There are lots of things that scan as bad ideas before they're built that end up turning out to be good ideas. Pandora at Animal Kingdom, for example. The concept for Indy at Animal Kingdom appears to be much more aligned with that than with something like Chester and Hesters (which I do think *fits*, and has some cleverness to it, but ultimately does not satisfy as an experience for the Disney Park guest).

 

[haveyoumetmark]

That part yes.

Indy is irrelevant to the adventure at that point. You have just described Serka Zong. So a similar theme and concept fits even though repeated well around the corner.

What Indy does, is raid temples and set fire to animals while searching for idols or stopping bad ideologies of cultures. That is his archetype. What does Indy do when he gets in?

Indiana Jones is being characterized as the antithesis of the park and it’s simply not true. He’s an archaeologist not an oil tycoon. He can fit right in without much contortion. I’ll let the story experts worry about why he’s there and what he does when he gets in.

 

[SaucyBoy]

Not only is this post rude, but I think you're dead wrong about what most people see as the problem with this expansion.

Nobody is saying a Tropical Americas land wouldn't be a perfect fit in Animal Kingdom, and very few people actually have a problem with the IP presented if they are woven into animal/nature centered original stories, which is certainly possible seeing what has been done with Pandora. The real problem is that there's no reason to kill all of Dinoland (especially Dinosaur) when this park has ample expansion space. Plain and simple.

I think Dinoland has always been the weakest link at DAK. I don't have the hate for Joe that some folks on here have for giving us the land, he did the best he could with the lemons given to him, but the loss of Dinoland is a great win for the park overall. We will finally see a land on the caliber of Asia, Africa, and Pandora. I think that is something to celebrate.

 

[999th Happy Haunt]

I think Dinoland has always been the weakest link at DAK. I don't have the hate for Joe that some folks on here have for giving us the land, he did the best he could with the lemons given to him, but the loss of Dinoland is a great win for the park overall. We will finally see a land on the caliber of Asia, Africa, and Pandora. I think that is something to celebrate.

The loss of Dinorama will help the park, but I think all of the other stuff in the land is legitimately very good. Losing the excellently themed but often overlooked Boneyard, Restaurantosaurus, Dinosaur, and even Chester and Hester gift shop are big blows.

Dinosaurs will always be popular, with or without being connected to Jurassic Park. Wish they would have built a new dino ride on the Primeval Whirl plot (like the Excavator coaster concept) while also building Tropical Americas in a separate expansion pad.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

No, let's back up again - I didn't "change my mind".

I was told that WDI had something up their sleeve, and was willing to wait to see how it turned out before passing judgement. What was described to me was not what was eventually built (that's a simple way of putting it, since I'm not at liberty to share all the details), so viewing the scene as installed let me make my decision. As it stands on its own within the ride, I don't like the placement of WDW's Hatbox Ghost.

Do you see now why I'm getting defensive? Come with the correct energy if you want to be met with it in turn.

I didn't realize what I said would be so upsetting, and still don't to be honest. That certainly wasn't my intent. I genuinely did not know that you disliked the Hatbox Ghost in its final form. What I recall you saying early on is that the placement would end up making sense, and I wasn't aware that your opinion changed when you saw the final product. If you did say that somewhere on here, then i'm sorry but I genuinely didn't know. I admittedly don't read every single post on here, but I also didn't get the impression from what I did read that you didn't like it.

The concept art that Disney released was the only preview material I ever saw of WDW's Hattie. This specifically-

And I don't like this concept. The lighting is definitely more striking here. And I'd be curious to know what sort of different and more elaborate plans there were originally. But again, I don't think any variant of this figure's placement at that spot would have turned out acceptable. Regardless of how much better it may have been in the planning phase.

It does go to show however that we should always take word of mouth from imagineers with a huge grain of salt. Even from very talented people such as Joe Rohde. I've been told some great things about Tiana, but a lot of this is just hearsay that even I maintain a skeptical mind for. And I definitely don't expect everyone here to believe it either. So it doesn't offend me when there's doubt expressed.

There are lots of things that scan as bad ideas before they're built that end up turning out to be good ideas. Pandora at Animal Kingdom, for example. The concept for Indy at Animal Kingdom appears to be much more aligned with that than with something like Chester and Hesters (which I do think *fits*, and has some cleverness to it, but ultimately does not satisfy as an experience for the Disney Park guest).

I disagree about Chester and Hester fitting. I acknowledge that people attempt to explain why it does and appreciate the effort, but I can't get behind it myself. It doesn't help that the area is just awful. I don't hate or blame Rohde for its inclusion, because he clearly had the rug pulled out from under him with the massive budget cuts and had much grander plans before that. With C&H being a last second addition done with a likely far less than shoestring budget. But I also don't think he's being honest when he promotes the land's merits. I doubt anyone involved with it would defend its quality or fit if you truly got them to speak off the record.

Doesn't mean I think what they're replacing it with will fit either though. Dinosaur and the Boneyard DID fit very well with the park, particularly the original CTE ride. It's a stupid decision to replace these rides instead of expanding the park around them. Dinosaurs are a pretty evergreen concept regarding popularity. If anything, it would have been neat to see them expand the concept of the land to include other prehistoric and extinct species as well. And I think there would be a ton of demand to see them do this.

Pandora also doesn't really "fit" with AK to me. It fits slightly better than C&H, but that's mostly because it at least attempts to create a lush jungle-like environment that blends in with the surrounding park to some degree. There are admittedly even worse things that could be build at AK. But as far as keeping to the original "philosophies" behind AK, I think it mostly doesn't really fit at all aside from some subtle ecology aspects. And even that is less about the impact on animals, moreso its impact on plants and especially the humanoid cat aliens. And I say this as someone who actually thinks the land is really cool when judged in a vacuum.

 

[Brer Panther]

So, The Lion King - a movie about animals - doesn't fit in Animal Kingdom, but Encanto and Coco - movies about humans with animals as minor supporting characters - do. What?

it would be a bonus if it somehow incorporated dinosaurs even in a small way.

I think I might be able to forgive Dinosaur getting turned into an Indiana Jones ride if it retained all the dinosaur animatronics and was about Indiana Jones facing off against dinosaurs. But I doubt Disney will do that (if for no other reason than because Iger's Disney is too lazy to maintain the animatronics).

Dinosaurs will always be popular, with or without being connected to Jurassic Park. Wish they would have built a new dino ride on the Primeval Whirl plot (like the Excavator coaster concept) while also building Tropical Americas in a separate expansion pad.

I fully agree.

I disagree about Chester and Hester fitting. I acknowledge that people attempt to explain why it does and appreciate the effort, but I can't get behind it myself. It doesn't help that the area is just awful. I don't hate or blame Rohde for its inclusion, because he clearly had the rug pulled out from under him with the massive budget cuts and had much grander plans before that. With C&H being a last second addition done with a likely far less than shoestring budget. But I also don't think he's being honest when he promotes the land's merits. I doubt anyone involved with it would defend its quality or fit if you truly got them to speak off the record.

Doesn't mean I think what they're replacing it with will fit either though. Dinosaur and the Boneyard DID fit very well with the park, particularly the original CTE ride. It's a stupid decision to replace these rides instead of expanding the park around them. Dinosaurs are a pretty evergreen concept regarding popularity. If anything, it would have been neat to see them expand the concept of the land to include other prehistoric and extinct species as well. And I think there would be a ton of demand to see them do this.

I fully agree with this too. The solution to Dinoland's flaws (which basically amounted to Dino-Rama being lousy and... that's it?) was not removing dinosaurs from the park entirely. You could do a lot with dinosaurs and prehistoric life.

But nope, Disney doesn't have any popular dinosaur IPs so just take dinosaurs out of Animal Kingdom altogether. They COULD do something with Ice Age (not a Disney-created IP, but neither was Indiana Jones and Disney's shown that they're still perfectly willing to milk the franchise), which would bring other prehistoric animals into the park. Did they even CONSIDER that?

 

[peter11435]

Or they do a secret 4th thing.

It's not that crazy difficult to find an adventure for Indy that makes sense for both him and the park.

Or if it is, lucky us because it seems like they've found one.

I find it hard to believe that secret fourth thing doesn’t fundamentally change his character.

But I hope they surprise me.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

So, The Lion King - a movie about animals - doesn't fit in Animal Kingdom, but Encanto and Coco - movies about humans with animals as minor supporting characters - do. What?

The Lion King isn't really about animals, though. It uses animals to tell a human story. The other attractions in DAK aren't like this: Kilimanjaro Safari is themed to a game preserve in Africa, Kali River Rapids about deforestation, Expedition Everest about the mythology of the yeti in the Himalayas, and Pandora a fictional contact between humans and the natural environment of another planet.

We have to see what they come up with, but it seems to me that Coco and Encanto as themes provide ways to deal with how humans relate to animals and the natural world more in keeping with those attractions than would a ride featuring talking cartoon animals who stand in for humans. Legend of the Lion King gets around this by focusing on storytelling, but I think that would be a little too meta for a ride and almost certainly wouldn't be what they want in Paris for their Studio (or whatever it will soon be called) park.

But nope, Disney doesn't have any popular dinosaur IPs so just take dinosaurs out of Animal Kingdom altogether. They COULD do something with Ice Age (not a Disney-created IP, but neither was Indiana Jones and Disney's shown that they're still perfectly willing to milk the franchise), which would bring other prehistoric animals into the park. Did they even CONSIDER that?

I'm personally glad they're not retconning animated films they've bought from other studios decades after their release into the parks.

 

[KDM31091]

The loss of Dinorama will help the park, but I think all of the other stuff in the land is legitimately very good. Losing the excellently themed but often overlooked Boneyard, Restaurantosaurus, Dinosaur, and even Chester and Hester gift shop are big blows.

Dinosaurs will always be popular, with or without being connected to Jurassic Park. Wish they would have built a new dino ride on the Primeval Whirl plot (like the Excavator coaster concept) while also building Tropical Americas in a separate expansion pad.

This. And I'm sorry but given recent track record I am not inclined to feel like what replaces it will be nearly as well themed.

I still don't get why we can't have Dinoland, and Tropical Americas in a new pad, when this park has plenty of unused land. It just doesn't make any sense to me especially with the attraction count being so low.

 

[James Alucobond]

So, The Lion King - a movie about animals - doesn't fit in Animal Kingdom, but Encanto and Coco - movies about humans with animals as minor supporting characters - do. What?

No one is saying Lion King can't fit, just that, like Encanto, fitting requires that it not simply copy the source material. While true that it is less visually problematic than Zootopia because its characters are not anthropomorphic, the narrative doesn't actually have anything to do with animals and could be told identically with human characters. It would need to lean into one of Animal Kingdom's themes, not just be a book report ride.

 

[haveyoumetmark]

This. And I'm sorry but given recent track record I am not inclined to feel like what replaces it will be nearly as well themed.

I still don't get why we can't have Dinoland, and Tropical Americas in a new pad, when this park has plenty of unused land. It just doesn't make any sense to me especially with the attraction count being so low.

As well themed as Dinoland? Please

 

[KDM31091]

As well themed as Dinoland? Please

The post I quoted was referring to the gift shop, Restaurantasarous, etc which no matter how you feel about them, are very themed.