News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Andrew C]

Dear Leader in China was indeed elected by the governing party.

So... same thing!

I hope this is a joke/sarcastic comparison. Otherwise you lost me.

 

[Dranth]

But surely Disney would not have kept RCID around for 50+ years, or lobby for its creation back in the 60s, if it did not provide a net benefit. Sure, there may be some trade offs, but I think we can all agree that Disney benefits from RCID's existence more than it loses from it.

Sure, the benefit is the control, but they are paying extra for that. Also, let’s look at the other side of that coin, if this is such a sweet deal for Disney why aren’t all these other companies lining up, begging for a special district. Nothing is stopping them.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I hope this is a joke/sarcastic comparison. Otherwise you lost me.

Both leaders were elected in a sea of a red party which has a lock on the government, if you catch my drift. If not... just a throw-away line.

 

[fgmnt]

That said, similar, and in some cases, worse, retaliations have happened against conservative companies and individuals

I would love to ask for a real counter, where a Democratic state trifecta crafts legislation that takes mutually financially and logistically damaging action against a business espousing conservative speech because I can't think of one myself, but that would probably get nuked, so feel free to just go ahead and think that I guess.

 

[lazyboy97o]

You won't catch an argument from me on that one. It does strike me as a revenge move based on the company's politics. That said, similar, and in some cases, worse retaliations have happened against conservative companies and individuals, so I guess I shrug my shoulders and accept this is the kind of country we live in now, unfortunately.

You’re describing tribalism of the worst sort.

 

[Bullseye1967]

You're missing the point. The PRC isn't a free country. They don't hold the freedom of speech to high regard. Cross the PRC, even a little, and they'll nationalize your business, kick you out, arrest your employees, etc.

That's not the way we are supposed to do things in the United States of America. Yet here we are.

But here we are. They had every right to challenge the PRC. They are an a American company. Why did they not? You make a choice based on the possible outcome. It probably didn't look good. You are the one missing the point. You roll the dice and look at your odds. I was a police officer for 20 years in Chicago. I can tell you a lot about how we are "supposed to do things". That and reality are not always the same. What should be and what is are 2 different things.

 

[Brian]

Of course it benefits them. What's wrong with that?

It also benefits the state and the taxpayers.

Now I'll ask you - other than "Big evil corporation", what about RCID is problematic in any way? And what does this bill specifically do that addresses those supposed problems?

Well, I'm told that a new draft of the RCID legislation coming tomorrow will require that they bring back Food Rocks. So that's one thing.

Kidding aside, I'm not suggesting that dissolution was the right move. RCID ceasing to exist without a replacement would have deleterious effects on the Central FL economy. However, as others have pointed out, Disney can exert control and powers usually delegated to a local government, something which other competitors in the space currently cannot say the same. Notwithstanding the benefit to the taxpayers, that is a bargain worth studying and scrutinizing.

Unfortunately, that was not the catalyst for the dissolution in the first place. Political revenge was. The aforementioned "level playing field" argument was used, rather poorly, as an attempt to masquerade the reality, diminishing what I see as a legitimate concern by alienating those smart enough to see through the rather transparent attempt at making it seem like it's not retribution.

One of the major things I take issue with is RCID being able to issue tax-free bonds for projects which directly benefit Disney. Classic example are the Disney Springs parking garages. Disney should absolutely have had to pay for those themselves. Did they pay for them by way of taxes to RCID? At the end of the day, yes, but they still realized tax savings since they were paid for using government bonds. Universal had to pay taxes to build their parking garages.

ETA: What could have been a fruitful, thoughtful and possibly bi-partisan conversation about how to address the "level playing field" quandary was instead turned into a laughing stock by using it as an excuse to exact political revenge.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

At the end of the day, neither side should be doing or have done what they are doing or have done. 2 wrongs don’t make a right yet here we are. Again, this all could have been avoided. And for the record I don’t agree with them coming after Reedy Creek and Disney, all I’m saying is they created their own problem

What Chapek did wasn’t wrong, just stupid. It was stupid to step into a political fire but he had every right to do it.

In his defense I don’t think anyone could have dreamed a state would completely ignore 200 years of precedence and would retaliate against a company over a political stance and withholding political donations. We’re off the map here. It’s never happened in America before, not at this extreme level anyway.

 

[flynnibus]

Disney MGM opened a year before USF

They also didn’t start at the same time… nor were they the same build. So… could there possibly be other factors that caused their timelines to differ??

 

[lazyboy97o]

They also didn’t start at the same time… nor were they the same build. So… could there possibly be other factors that caused their timelines to differ??

And let’s completely ignore the decade or so that Universal’s Florida project spent in development hell because Universal didn’t want to pay the whole bill themselves, with Universal Orlando Resort only becoming fully owned by Universal within the past decade when Comcast bought out Blackstone’s 50% ownership stake.

 

[flynnibus]

See my above reference to the PRC. They choose not to fight that fight

Congrats on equating operating in America with operating under communist china dictatorship.

You really aren’t helping your cause - you should lose zero sleep over the gov punishing you for this. The fact you even entertain it as something they have to balance is disturbing.

We aren’t talking customers- we are talking your government

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, I'm told that a new draft of the RCID legislation coming tomorrow will require that they bring back Food Rocks. So that's one thing.

Kidding aside, I'm not suggesting that dissolution was the right move. RCID ceasing to exist without a replacement would have deleterious effects on the Central FL economy. However, as others have pointed out, Disney can exert control and powers usually delegated to a local government, something which other competitors in the space currently cannot say the same. Notwithstanding the benefit to the taxpayers, that is a bargain worth studying and scrutinizing.

Unfortunately, that was not the catalyst for the dissolution in the first place. Political revenge was. The aforementioned "level playing field" argument was used, rather poorly, as an attempt to masquerade the reality, diminishing what I see as a legitimate concern by alienating those smart enough to see through the rather transparent attempt at making it seem like it's not retribution.

One of the major things I take issue with is RCID being able to issue tax-free bonds for projects which directly benefit Disney. Classic example are the Disney Springs parking garages. Disney should absolutely have had to pay for those themselves. Did they pay for them by way of taxes to RCID? At the end of the day, yes, but they still realized tax savings since they were paid for using government bonds. Universal had to pay taxes to build their parking garages.

ETA: What could have been a fruitful, thoughtful and possibly bi-partisan conversation about how to address the "level playing field" quandary was instead turned into a laughing stock by using it as an excuse to exact political revenge.

The issue has been studied and reevaluated.

The I-4 Republic Drive Redevelopment Area exists for the purpose of providing things like transit infrastructure improvements around Universal Orlando Resort.

 

[flynnibus]

They had every right to challenge the PRC. They are an a American company. Why did they not

Uhhh because in china, china makes the rules? And saying ‘but we are American company’ means squat?

 

[Bullseye1967]

Congrats on equating operating in America with operating under communist china dictatorship.

You really aren’t helping your cause - you should lose zero sleep over the gov punishing you for this. The fact you even entertain it as something they have to balance is disturbing.

We aren’t talking customers- we are talking your government

Uhhh because in china, china makes the rules? And saying ‘but we are American company’ means squat?

Please quote what I have said. Not just a small piece. Context means something. The way Disney does business means something also. They are willing to fight the state of FL but not the PRC. They know what is good for them.

 

[GoneViral]

Y'all done hung the Ghost Host from the ceiling tonight!

 

[SplashJacket]

America is interesting.
We live in a country where the government is supposed to guarantee your liberties and rights. Sure, it has some other tasks as well, but primarily, the government exists as a mechanism for rights. The foundational documents weren’t called the “Bill of Services,” but the “Bill of Rights.”

When infringement occurs, processes should guarantee appropriate resolution, but in situations like these, they challenge the adequacy of those systems.

Americans are a stubborn folk, we’re not to be w reckoned with. If you block our path, we will find another away. For infringement, those paths generally include the electoral and judicial processes, among others.
I believe it’s the role of American citizens to focus primarily on preservation of democratic ideals and rights, and everything else secondarily. Fiscal, education, agricultural, etc. policy all warrant designations at the political table, but I believe only when individual rights and Democratic ideals aren’t at stake. When Democracy is preserved, the fight for fiscal and other policies continues, but when democracy is sacrificed, that fight dies with it.

Just like the our foundational document is the Bill of Rights and not the Bill of Governance, we should focus on preservation of rights and democratic ideals first, and policy, culture, thereafter.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

You won't catch an argument from me on that one. It does strike me as a revenge move based on the company's politics. That said, similar, and in some cases, worse retaliations have happened against conservative companies and individuals, so I guess I shrug my shoulders and accept this is the kind of country we live in now, unfortunately.

Ahhh…buzzwords without meaning…I love this part of the play!

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

At the end of the day, neither side should be doing or have done what they are doing or have done. 2 wrongs don’t make a right yet here we are. Again, this all could have been avoided. And for the record I don’t agree with them coming after Reedy Creek and Disney, all I’m saying is they created their own problem

There are not “2 wrongs” here…
…but there is clearly one

EXPRESSING A POLITICAL OPONION IS NOT A WRONG. It's the bedrock of our democracy.

View attachment 696865

A- $&@!ing -Men

So in the last 10 years it’s been determined private companies can - literally - buy the policy they need….
…but they can’t say anything about it?

Now what kinda dr Frankenstein system is that?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Please quote what I have said. Not just a small piece. Context means something. The way Disney does business means something also. They are willing to fight the state of FL but not the PRC. They know what is good for them.

The little arrow next to a quoted username lets people see the quote.

The context doesn’t change anything. You keep comparing Florida to an oppressive, authoritarian state. You keep telling us that Disney should act as though Florida is actually an oppressive authoritarian state and Disney would be better served by business decisions being considered in such a context. If that’s not what you mean then maybe try to come up with another example in someplace with a far better human rights record.

 

[Tony the Tigger]

2 wrongs don’t make a right

I didn’t say it was wrong

They are/were both wrong imo.

Disney needs to focus on running their company, not politics, period. They can say what they want but the country is too divided to be playing that game if they don’t think there will be any bad PR somewhere along the way regardless of their side of the fence

What they did and how they are both handling it is/was wrong (or at least not smart)

I don’t disagree with your point that Disney speaking out has resulted in this conflict so it’s accurate to say they caused this by speaking out. Where I think you are hearing a lot of push back is whether the reaction by the government is right/legal/justified. TWDC made the decision to speak out knowing it may cost them business. Companies make these decisions every day. You can’t please everyone. If the result was a loss in business from some people opposed to their speaking out it wouldn’t be an issue.

Where this is a huge problem is one man (with the help of some sheep) is abusing the power of the government (power the people entrusted to him) to attack someone who spoke out against him. That should never be allowed anywhere and people shouldn’t accept it no matter how much they support the politician or his politics.

So while Disney could have avoided this they shouldn’t have to “keep silent” for fear of inappropriate government retaliation.

This last post from GoofGoof saved me the trouble of responding to all the previous ones (and probably getting some deleted.)

100% perfectly stated.

How did we get to a place where people don’t know the basics?