Rumor New Monorails Coming Soon?

[harryk]

The idea stated by Walt Disney for EPCOT was 'prototype' and ever evolving community. So putting monorails, maglevs, people movers into the park system would make sense, should the current unimaginative management care, to keep the parks more interesting. Transportation of all types would make sense with an eye to the future. Keep mind off of the initial costs and look at what the income generated by visitors coming to experience what the future may hold. True, it may take years to recover initial costs but should it stop the 'investment' ? Skyliners are a look into the past - not the future.

 

[ohioguy]

You still cannot compare the maintenance cost PER MILE of Jax to WDW. It is like saying you can compare the maintenance costs of a Honda Accord to a Peterbilt semi truck because they both feature internal combustion engines and drive on roads.

Yes that is obvious... But you said WDW's cost PER MILE compared to Jax's cost per mile. That's a no go for the above stated reason.

No. I believe this is urban myth. I have seen no credible source claiming this. See below


We agree on this last part. They do know the hard numbers. But like I said in my other post, A monorail has always been a more expensive option then running busses. That is not new. It was true when Walt expanded his monorail to the Disneyland Hotel. It was true when WDW was being built for its 1971 opening. It was true when the WDW system was expanded for 1982 opening of Epcot. I don't think they ran into problems with the beams sinking, the Epcot Monorail open prior to the the opening of Epcot, they actually sold tickets to ride it prior to opening.

You kind of hear the same thing about the rooms at the Contemporary, they were built to be removable but the building sank. the truth is first.... even in the 1960's, it was well known and documented that a 14 story concrete and steel structure was going to settle and sink a bit, especially on Florida soil. Second they had to insert the room in a certain order because once they were in place they were hooked up to pumpling and electrical with would no longer be so accessible when the next room slide in. And finally the balconies were building after the room was in place. They were not really built with intend to be removed. They were built so that rooms could be built at the same time as the super structure of the resort, in theory saving time and thus money. It did not save any time or money then, but today it have been evolved and the concept is still used for ship building. Like the Contemporary ships rooms are still not removable once put into place and hooked up / locked in. But I regress.... sorry.

I guarantee the bean counters at Disney have done a cost-per-mile analysis of the monorails. If not, then the accounting firm needs fired. You can also definitely compare the two since this is not an apples-to-oranges situation. One has to guess the operational overhead and maintenance because Disney does not release that information. Again, it's definitely more than the Skyliner. And the point is, if you were an accountant, would you recommend an expansion of the monorails or an expansion of the Skyliner?

Why did MGM never get the monorail expansion that Eisner wanted? Because of cost.

I am intrigued about the discussion of buses. They may very well be the future since they are the most efficient means of transversing the property. Electric buses, especially, will become the norm over the next 20 years.

 

[Disone]

I guarantee the bean counters at Disney have done a cost-per-mile analysis of the monorails. If not, then the accounting firm needs fired. You can also definitely compare the two since this is not an apples-to-oranges situation.

I get that but you said maintenance of the beams was going to be the downfall of the system. And then doubled down on that statement by saying Google it. We did.... Nothing to support that has been found.

Furthermore, based on, I don't think the being counters at Disney do a cost per mile analysis of the monorail anymore than don't do analysis of cost to any attraction based on it's length.


And yes, Jacksonville and Walt Disney World are apples to oranges. Honestly, their apples to bricks. Just look at the infrastructure of the track at Jacksonville. There's a ton more infrastructure there because it is a completely different system.

I assure you the cost per mile are nowhere near each other of the two systems. It would be like comparing it to the Wuppertal Schwebebahn Monorail in Germany. The only thing those two monorail systems have in common is the word monorail.

But all this was beside the point that we were trying to determine the cost per mile which you strongly indicated was so very high and was going to be the downfall the system. At the end of the day we have still not found what that cost is. So engagement in this conversation is no longer needed.

The system will deteriorate due to the trains, not the tracks.

 

[Raxel7851]

I get that but you said maintenance of the beams was going to be the downfall of the system. And then doubled down on that statement by saying Google it. We did.... Nothing to support that has been found.

Furthermore, based on, I don't think the being counters at Disney do a cost per mile analysis of the monorail anymore than don't do analysis of cost to any attraction based on it's length.


And yes, Jacksonville and Walt Disney World are apples to oranges. Honestly, their apples to bricks. Just look at the infrastructure of the track at Jacksonville. There's a ton more infrastructure there because it is a completely different system.

I assure you the cost per mile are nowhere near each other of the two systems. It would be like comparing it to the Wuppertal Schwebebahn Monorail in Germany. The only thing those two monorail systems have in common is the word monorail.

But all this was beside the point that we were trying to determine the cost per mile which you strongly indicated was so very high and was going to be the downfall the system. At the end of the day we have still not found what that cost is. So engagement in this conversation is no longer needed.

The system will deteriorate due to the trains, not the tracks.

I believe you are correct in the cost per mile to construct. The WDW monorail was built thru undeveloped land, whereas most new construction nowadays is built in urban/suburban/commercial areas where the construction challenges are much greater. Especially for land acquisition and previously built structures. Just my thoughts.

 

[Brad Bishop]

The other thing to remember with this is that Disney used to be a technology-driven/inspired company.

Look at what they were doing with animatronics/computers/Monorail/Peoplemover/etc. during the 1960s-1970s.

Eisner took that and changed it into: People want to ride the movies!

...now we have an IP based company and you "get to ride the movies". The idea of futuristic ways of moving people around, or really even the animatronics these days, are slowly fading into the past. They are things Disney now trips over.

The new way of doing things:
- Ride the movies
- More screens / less animatronics

If a projector fails you can just take another one from the warehouse and stick it in there. With an animatronic, you have to pull the figure, take them back stage, diagnose, and fix them. That's a lot of time and money. Screens win!

 

[bcoachable]

The other thing to remember with this is that Disney used to be a technology-driven/inspired company.

Look at what they were doing with animatronics/computers/Monorail/Peoplemover/etc. during the 1960s-1970s.

Eisner took that and changed it into: People want to ride the movies!

...now we have an IP based company and you "get to ride the movies". The idea of futuristic ways of moving people around, or really even the animatronics these days, are slowly fading into the past. They are things Disney now trips over.

The new way of doing things:
- Ride the movies
- More screens / less animatronics

If a projector fails you can just take another one from the warehouse and stick it in there. With an animatronic, you have to pull the figure, take them back stage, diagnose, and fix them. That's a lot of time and money. Screens win!

Good take!

 

[Disstevefan1]

In WDW, I Presume RCID does all the inspections like inspection of the monorail beams, in effect, self inspection, of the monorail beams. Unless it was just luck, this was fine for the the last 50 years.

Or are the late 60s beams are so over engineered that they stood the test of time?

Another thought. I wonder what is going to happen after RCID is dissolved? Will Orange County inspectors immediately condemn the monorail?

 

[Goofyernmost]

The other thing to remember with this is that Disney used to be a technology-driven/inspired company.

Look at what they were doing with animatronics/computers/Monorail/Peoplemover/etc. during the 1960s-1970s.

Eisner took that and changed it into: People want to ride the movies!

...now we have an IP based company and you "get to ride the movies". The idea of futuristic ways of moving people around, or really even the animatronics these days, are slowly fading into the past. They are things Disney now trips over.

The new way of doing things:
- Ride the movies
- More screens / less animatronics

If a projector fails you can just take another one from the warehouse and stick it in there. With an animatronic, you have to pull the figure, take them back stage, diagnose, and fix them. That's a lot of time and money. Screens win!

I would gladly bet that if Walt were alive and still running the parks, he would have embraced screens for their ability to expand the fantasy in a far more complete way than animatronics ever could. I would like them to preserve the animatronics in whatever attractions that still exist and use them in the best possible way. As an obvious awesome technology of their time the robots as entertainment that time has passed and the new screen systems allow people to have a much more solid emersion in the story.

 

[DznyRktekt]

None of us know what Walt would have liked or disliked.

 

[Disone]

In WDW, I Presume RCID does all the inspections like inspection of the monorail beams, in effect, self inspection, of the monorail beams. Unless it was just luck, this was fine for the the last 50 years.

Or are the late 60s beams are so over engineered that they stood the test of time?

Another thought. I wonder what is going to happen after RCID is dissolved? Will Orange County inspectors immediately condemn the monorail?

Condemn? Not likely. They may not be up to our expectations or the Disney standard, but they're not in a condition to be condemned either.

Remember, the national transportation safety board did investigate the monorail crash. They found human error, not general condition to be the cause of the accident. Since then, conditions on the system have only improved.

 

[Touchdown]

Ideally the system would be expanded so the Epcot line becomes part of a loop that hits DHS, Blizzard Beach and DAK and then continues back to TTC. Could maybe hit Coronado Springs as well or instead of Beach.

That way a trip from MK to DAK would be the same as MK to Epcot.

I would make a ton of loops and make Epcot the hub of it all. That’s how you travel between different loops. Then I would build a MK loop (existing loop with a new extension to WL and FW before continuing to Epcot and then going back.) The next loop would be the crescent lake/DHS loop, then you have a Disney Springs loop that would hit OKW, PO, SSR, DS, TL, CBR, Rivera, Pop, Animation and Epcot. Finally you would have the AK route, WWS, All Stars, BB, AKL, AK, CSR, and Epcot. If we are going extra fancy, I would additionally have a theme park express routes that would bypass the resorts and connect Epcot directly with MK and TTC, another to AK, and another to DS. That way you could move more quickly through those longer routes. That would leave buses only needed at CBR, OKW, SSR, CSR and FW (but I wouldn’t be opposed to to People Movers.)

Finally, I know what your thinking, Touchdown that will allow people to park at DS for free, but I thought of that, at DS and the water parks there would be ticket checks, no fee if you are a resort guest, AP, or previously swiped into a theme park (which should mean your car is parked elsewhere) otherwise the fee is the same price as parking, per person. Problem solved (also have the SSR station far enough in to that resort to discourage walking to it from DS.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Expansion of the WDW monorail tracks is a beautiful dream that will never come true.

 

[JoeCamel]

In WDW, I Presume RCID does all the inspections like inspection of the monorail beams, in effect, self inspection, of the monorail beams. Unless it was just luck, this was fine for the the last 50 years.

Or are the late 60s beams are so over engineered that they stood the test of time?

Another thought. I wonder what is going to happen after RCID is dissolved? Will Orange County inspectors immediately condemn the monorail?

Like most large theme park operators they self inspect and if there is a problem outside agencies will ask for the inspection reports and investigate. The expertise is on the operator's side, the building department simply is not trained in all the strange aspects of ride construction.

 

[GCTales]

I would gladly bet that if Walt were alive and still running the parks, he would have embraced screens for their ability to expand the fantasy in a far more complete way than animatronics ever could. I would like them to preserve the animatronics in whatever attractions that still exist and use them in the best possible way. As an obvious awesome technology of their time the robots as entertainment that time has passed and the new screen systems allow people to have a much more solid emersion in the story.

They are still pushing the envelope with animatronics / robotics.

Granted GotG, Tron, Rattatouille, and Webslingers do not have animateonics- but some others of recent rides do.

Examples of recent new rides with animatronics:

• (Edit) RotR as the newest and latest to have both ( thank you @TrainChasers)
• shaman in Navi (touted as most advanced Animatronic Disnefocus. (A.so has screens)
• Robot spidey flying in avenger a campus
• Multiple animatronics on Frozen
• 7DMT

Disney hasn't totally Eliminated animatronics, but they are not the focus.

I am assuming that the newly rethemed Splash will have a combo of screens and animatronics.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Like most large theme park operators they self inspect and if there is a problem outside agencies will ask for the inspection reports and investigate. The expertise is on the operator's side, the building department simply is not trained in all the strange aspects of ride construction.

My point was, when RCID did the inspections, it was totally an inside, self inspection as WDW and RCID were only technically separate entities, in reality they are all working for WDW.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Example-

Also in Rise.

 

[GCTales]

Also in Rise.

Oops, forgot that...

Corrected

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Walt loved transportation and he loved trains. So much of the original Disneyland was just transportation - the jungle cruise, riverboat, steam train, viewliner train, Mine train, circus train, horse-drawn streetcar, omnibus.

To me, one of the best things about visiting WDW Resort is the transportation. The boats, skyliner and monorails are part of the experience. Since Disney just invested in the skyliner, it seems they are aware of this.

Transporting guests throughout the property is part of WDW and always will be.

I’m confident that monorail expansion plans have been seriously looked at throughout the resorts history, including modern times.

 

[Anteater]

They are still pushing the envelope with animatronics / robotics.

Granted GotG, Tron, Rattatouille, and Webslingers do not have animateonics- but some others of recent rides do.

Examples of recent new rides with animatronics:

• (Edit) RotR as the newest and latest to have both ( thank you @TrainChasers)
• shaman in Navi (touted as most advanced Animatronic Disnefocus. (A.so has screens)
• Robot spidey flying in avenger a campus
• Multiple animatronics on Frozen
• 7DMT

Disney hasn't totally Eliminated animatronics, but they are not the focus.

I am assuming that the newly rethemed Splash will have a combo of screens and animatronics.

I'd be curious how much "pushing the envelope" WDI is actually doing. The Shaman was built by Garner Holt, for example. Disney shut down MAPO in 2012, sending that work to GH. It's unclear how much "advanced work" is being done at WDI at this point. It would be interesting to know. But, it's likely one of the reasons why you're seeing such a decline in maintenance of the existing AAs and effects. With the layoffs, those skills have left and are likely going to have to be re-learned by the next generation. I don't think we really know the extent GH plays in AA maintenance either.

If you haven't seen already, you may want to poke around on the Garner Holt website. Their work is truly amazing. And, that work is being seen outside of Disney parks.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

at some point I’m questioning what the current group at WDI actually does.... :-/