Are you buying Genie+

[SteveAZee]

There should be a discount on days where the parks close early due to ticket events.
It's crazy.

Disney could just say that the days they close early are the normal ticket prices and hours and the days they stay open later (due to no ticketed nights) are 'bonus hours' for their valued guests.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

That is poor planning on your part, [reduced park hours] shouldn't be a surprise.

Not necessarily. It depends when the WDW room is booked.

1.) I was one at WDW - get this - the week AFTER Thanksgiving, and back then THAT was when the Christmas decorations went up. I know, crazy, right?
It was kinda neat. We arrived late one night t our hotel, and saw carloads of garlands. The next morning, the hotel was transformed. Not only that, but Thursday night of that week, well after MK closed they did a practice run of the MK holiday fireworks. So back then, the Christmas parties didn't start until after Thanksgiving. It is crazy and a bit absurd that WDW now has HALLOWEEN parties in early August! And the Christmas parties start, what, like the day after Halloween? Halloween is a fall holiday. August 11 is the middle of summer!

2.) WDW also offers- or did offer up until the pandemic - something called a "Bounceback offer." The terms varied, but they are an incentive to keep WDW visitor's hooked. Bounceback deals could be booked as far as a full year out (or sometimes slightly longer). Again, the exact details of the offers changed about once a month. Sometimes the offer was a big room discount, plus the customer got first dibs on availability.

Currently, I think anyone can book a room for all of 2022. Park hours are only released a few months out.

So it is entirely possible to book/commit to a WDW vacation package well before park hours were released. International travelers are especially encouraged to book non-refundable airfare as early as possible to get the lowest airfare and dated they need.

So sure, you could eat the cost of the airfare, I suppose.

But it has personally happened to me. Where like - one year I was IN WDW a specific week that had NO parties. I booked a Bounceback offer (a full year out) for the following year, but when I returned, it WAS a party week. (Yes, I knew about the parties before I arrived, but not before I'd already committed to those dates.)

I'll add, in past years, say about 5 years ago, WDW had enough regular and EMH hours that the parties weren't quite as big of a nuisance, but WDW drastically cut park hours over the past few years, so the parties really suck. On top of that, park tickets are now very date specific.

 

[Cowboy Steve]

I am a long-time devotee of Disney Parks (just came back from WDW a few weeks ago). I love the parks not just as a vacation destination, but view them as living, always changing and evolving works of art. I am the kind of person who dreams of retiring near WDW and spending days just enjoying being there. But this is the first time in my life that I have felt this sort of anger and disappointment in Disney.

The sad truth is that all of us saying we won’t go back to Disney because of these new changes is exactly what Disney wants. They have watched for decades as attendance increased by huge amounts every year, and park expansion lagged behind it, to the point that the parks are overwhelmed with guests. They have done a marvelous job with making amazing new E-ticket rides (Rise of the Resistance and Flight of Passage are extraordinary), but they have not been built to handle the capacity they demand, and for every great E-ticket, we are placated with an unimaginative spinning carnival ride that is not indicative of what Disney is capable of (think Cars Land – Mater’s Junkyard Jamboree, and Toy Story Land – Alien Swirling Saucers). This is a cheap way to create a place to stick people, while offering very little in terms of guest experience.

They now have a few options to handle the increased attendance:

• Greatly limit the number of guests allowed each day (which decreases revenue if they keep costs the same)
• Aggressively expand the parks to accommodate more guests (not feasible due to cost and time – they should have been doing this all along and now that they are behind the curve, it will be nearly impossible to catch up)
• Increase costs to price out lower income guests (Disney makes the same amount with less guests, guests who can afford the increased costs have a better experience due to lower crowds, and Disney saves by not needing to pay as many Cast Members to staff the parks)

So us average guests are completely disrespected by Disney because they have spent decades mis-managing crowd control and now have almost no choice but to weed out less-profitable guests or take less money for themselves. And you Annual Passholders are getting it even worse. I really feel bad for APs – Disney clearly understands that APs take up space in the parks and don’t overspend on food and souvenirs, and Disney hates it.

The disrespect continues:

• Canceling Magic Express
• No more free Magic bands
• Evening Magic Hours for Deluxe Resort Guests only
• Decreased hours on a day when you continue to pay full price so Disney can charge more than a day’s admission to the guests for an after-hours party.
• Drastic cuts in live entertainment, including parades and night-time shows (remember the days when MK fireworks were twice a night with a light parade in-between? Hard to believe this was a thing)
• Pay-to-ride Fast Passes, paid access to a Fast Pass system that doesn’t include the rides you need Fast Passes for, and an algorithm to “minimize your time in line” which is really just a Disney tool for crowd control, all packaged as though this is all being done for the guest’s benefit.
• Building rides that have mid to low capacity but will demand big crowds, charging admission to see them, then just being ok with well below half the day’s guests not getting to experience them.
• Using COVID as an excuse to cut services, and especially as an excuse to cut Cast Member jobs.

I believe in Capitalism – if you have a product or idea that people will pay for then it is your absolute right to charge what you can get for it. And I wholly believe that Disney does not owe us a thing, no matter how loyal we have all been as customers over the years. In the end, though, the word I keep coming back to is disrespect. I’ve always understood and been totally settled with Disney being a company that could market their products like no other and really squeeze every cent out of a revenue source, but I feel like they always did so by being innovative, prioritizing the customer in ways that the competition did not, and constantly offering the highest quality product. They are still innovative when they need to be, but then they pad their numbers with less-than quality attractions (carnival-style rides and recycled rides like the Inside Out Emotional Whirlwind). But sadly now the customer service and product quality are just so far down the list of priorities that is has become insulting. We are asked to pay more for less hours, less entertainment, and then are hustled to pay additional fees on top of the admission price, all while Disney pitches it as a benefit which we have the “opportunity” to take advantage of.

It’s disrespectful. And for the first time in my life, I don’t know that I will be back. It makes me sad, but that’s just how Disney wants it.

Well this pretty much covers it all 100%. While I will continue to make the annual trek to WDW, my future plans are going to drastically change. Since we are transitioning to a camping lifestyle (well, camping without horses anyway), we won't be staying at any of the brick and mortar resorts, and probably not eating in restaurants much. Going to travel with a kitchen, might as well use it lol. If we get on any of the high demand low rider capacity rides great. But not going to sweat it if we don't. So sad and disappointing to see the magic losing so much (if not all) of it's magic. So so disappointing...

 

[cbear]

no I will not be buying Genie The tickets are expensive enough already. we'll just have to chance It.

 

[Familyof5]

You really aren't going to have much choice when it comes down to it if you intend to ride attractions. A day without it is going to be problematic to say the least.

Well. I totally have choice. Some of us are NOT returning to Disney because of Genie and Lightning.

With a family of 5, we would pay 6-7K for a week at Disney. But, before Genie, we knew that we would have three fastpasses to our favorite rides and a place to each lunch. Now, we wait until we have already arrived to see if we can do what we want; it was only worth the money if we had certainty. Sorry, long time, 20 year fan of Disney, making annual trips with and without children. But, this is my farewell.

 

[Familyof5]

If Disney were to drop their admission prices to where they are affordable, then, maybe... just maybe I would let this pass.

Screw this idea.

 

[cjack300zx]

I have a solo trip on the 16th of October so I'm guessing this will be rolled out by then if so I'm going to see how it is and if it will be something I get in the future

 

[SteveAZee]

View attachment 588570

If you look at what has been added/improved/expanded to Disney over those years, it's gained a whole lot of stuff. Gas is still gas. The price increases seem to be getting ridiculously high, regardless of the value added... but some of the price increases are due to all the growth.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Gas is still gas. The price increases seem to be getting ridiculously high, regardless of the value added... but some of the price increases are due to all the growth.

I disagree. In the same time period, the fuel economy of motor vehicles has increased dramatically. In the early 1970's cars averaged approximately 12-13MPG. By 2010, the average increased above 20MPG, and in 2020 the average light-duty vehicle fuel economy increased to 25.7MPG. From 2005-2020 the average fuel economy rose 29%. (source: US Dept of Energy office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Preliminary Report at energy.gov/eere )

So the distance one can travel on a single gallon of gas has roughly doubled, despite the fact that the average horsepower increased over 70 percent between 1975 and 2020 (epa.gov) and those numbers are expected to increase significantly in the next few years, especially for trucks and SUV's.

 

[wajo]

Totally agree with Familyof5 above and similar to them-- 20+ years annual GF.
Ridiculous new policies and direction jammed down our throats --expecting we will all adjust to their new costs and Genie.... FAREWELL is correct

 

[SteveAZee]

I disagree. In the same time period, the fuel economy of motor vehicles has increased dramatically. In the early 1970's cars averaged approximately 12-13MPG. By 2010, the average increased above 20MPG, and in 2020 the average light-duty vehicle fuel economy increased to 25.7MPG. From 2005-2020 the average fuel economy rose 29%. (source: US Dept of Energy office of Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Preliminary Report at energy.gov/eere )

So the distance one can travel on a single gallon of gas has roughly doubled, despite the fact that the average horsepower increased over 70 percent between 1975 and 2020 (epa.gov) and those numbers are expected to increase significantly in the next few years, especially for trucks and SUV's.

Well, I suppose that's a valid point. I'm just saying that gas itself (vs. how it's used) hasn't changed much, whereas WDW has increased its value over time. You could also compare it to the cost of a basic calculator that has gone from roughly $100 in the early 1970's dollars to zero (a free app on your phone)... it doesn't mean gas (or Disney) should have followed the same price model.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Well, I suppose that's a valid point. I'm just saying that gas itself (vs. how it's used) hasn't changed much, whereas WDW has increased its value over time. You could also compare it to the cost of a basic calculator that has gone from roughly $100 in the early 1970's dollars to zero (a free app on your phone)... it doesn't mean gas (or Disney) should have followed the same price model.

I get you're point, but perhaps gas isn't the best example, because gasoline itself has actually changed considerably since 1971.

Back in 1971, gasoline was purely leaded gas, and there was no ethanol in it.

Offering different octane gasoline had barely begun in 1971 (the regulation requiring stations to offer more than one octane went into effect at the end of June1971).

Unleaded gasoline didn't arrive until 1974. And it wasn't really adopted by drivers until catalytic converters were widely added to cars starting in 1975, but many folks drove pre-1975 cars for decades after 1975. (Also, for several years it was 'a thing' for drivers to modify their 1975+ cars so they could keep using leaded gas. At least until states started cracking down on the practice. )

Very few people bought higher octane gas in the 1970's.

Gasoline detergents weren't required until 1996. Prior to that, I don't know when they were first sold, but they weren't noticed all that much by most drivers prior the late 1980's when more advanced fuel injectors came in more widespread use. ( a more avid car enthusiast than me could offer more specifics.)

The where and how of our gasoline has also changed dramatically since 1971, and the price is heavily controlled/regulated via subsidies and taxes. Since 1971, we have shifted policy on international/domestic oil production many times. (Where our gasoline comes from, and where/how we refine it/regulate it/subsidize it/tax it/transport it, etc.)

Gasoline sold at gas stations has changed considerably since 1971, just like WDW and the Disney Company have changed dramatically from what they were in 1971. We have fought multiple wars over oil. Our government spends huge sums of $ to keep oil supplies steady.

So the whole idea of comparing he price of WDW to the price of gas is a bit silly. Our country isn't going to go to war if we're cut off from our supply of Mickey bars.

Then again...

 

[SteveAZee]

I get you're point, but perhaps gas isn't the best example, because gasoline itself has actually changed considerably since 1971.

Back in 1971, gasoline was purely leaded gas, and there was no ethanol in it.

Offering different octane gasoline had barely begun in 1971 (the regulation requiring stations to offer more than one octane went into effect at the end of June1971).

Unleaded gasoline didn't arrive until 1974. And it wasn't really adopted by drivers until catalytic converters were widely added to cars starting in 1975, but many folks drove pre-1975 cars for decades after 1975. (Also, for several years it was 'a thing' for drivers to modify their 1975+ cars so they could keep using leaded gas. At least until states started cracking down on the practice. )

Very few people bought higher octane gas in the 1970's.

Gasoline detergents weren't required until 1996. Prior to that, I don't know when they were first sold, but they weren't noticed all that much by most drivers prior the late 1980's when more advanced fuel injectors came in more widespread use. ( a more avid car enthusiast than me could offer more specifics.)

The where and how of our gasoline has also changed dramatically since 1971, and the price is heavily controlled/regulated via subsidies and taxes. Since 1971, we have shifted policy on international/domestic oil production many times. (Where our gasoline comes from, and where/how we refine it/regulate it/subsidize it/tax it/transport it, etc.)

Gasoline sold at gas stations has changed considerably since 1971, just like WDW and the Disney Company have changed dramatically from what they were in 1971. We have fought multiple wars over oil. Our government spends huge sums of $ to keep oil supplies steady.

So the whole idea of comparing he price of WDW to the price of gas is a bit silly. Our country isn't going to go to war if we're cut off from our supply of Mickey bars.

Then again...

Man, you really know your gas.

I'll still stand by the idea that Disney prices needed to go up higher than inflation simply because they kept adding more and more stuff to the park(s) over the years (and paying more and more people to maintain or manage the attraction or restaurant). More value also means it'll cost more to visit, but you also get more "Disney". I think at issue, often, is when they raise prices and remove things at the same time... or add things but jack up prices way beyond what it reasonable and then start charging for things that used to be free... or charge astronomical amounts for small things (like dessert parties) that then impact regular folk.

I what I remember about gas in the 70's was long lines at the pump, the horror of it going over $1/gallon, and buying a used Pontiac LeMans, which was about 4000 lbs of metal, no trunk space, room for 5 as long as the 3 in the back were short, and getting at best 12 MPG.

 

[Javier Antonio Nisa Avila]

Hi Guys!
I have read that Disneyland Paris is lowing prices of fastpass? Do you know if it could be the same in Disneyland and Disney world?

 

[cbear]

Why do some people on here make it sound like if you don't buy this genie product you'll only be able to walk around and do nothing and just look at the rides. I'm curious what age most of the people who say yes to paying for genie are.

 

[erasure fan1]

Why do some people on here make it sound like if you don't buy this genie product you'll only be able to walk around and do nothing and just look at the rides.

I'd guess because people are sceptical of Disney. I can't really blame them. It would be right up Disney's alley to over sell it, reduce stand by, to "encourage" people to shell out extra money. They have spoken loud and clear. It isn't about guest experience, it's about profit. I'm not a fan of this system, but I will see how it plays out. Maybe it's great. Unfortunately Disney has lost their I trust them to do it right, for me. So now it's a prove it.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Why do some people on here make it sound like if you don't buy this genie product you'll only be able to walk around and do nothing and just look at the rides. I'm curious what age most of the people who say yes to paying for genie are.

There is a rumor that Disney will close the standby lines if they get too long. We also know there are some attractions that will not be accessible by G+

In theory, if they do close the standby lines of the attractions not part of G+ then the only way to access the most popular attractions is the pay-per-ride.

Another thing to consider, the Genie app is designed to drive folks to the attractions with low wait times, turning them into attractions with high wait times, then the standby line is closed, forcing guests to use a G+ of a pay-per-ride.

Only time will tell as to how this new $y$tem will work.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is a rumor that Disney will close the standby lines if they get too long.

No there isn't. That's not a rumor, that's "unfounded speculation based on absolutely nothing beyond message board users with a grudge pulling "what if" scenarios out of their ."

Another thing to consider, the Genie app is designed to drive folks to the attractions with low wait times, turning them into attractions with high wait times, then the standby line is closed, forcing guests to use a G+ of a pay-per-ride.

This is the silliest thing I've read on this topic, and that's saying something.

 

[Disstevefan1]

No there isn't. That's not a rumor, that's "unfounded speculation based on absolutely nothing beyond message board users with a grudge pulling "what if" scenarios out of their *****."


This is the silliest thing I've read on this topic, and that's saying something.

@CaptainAmerica is obviously the expert on G+ and LL and apparently has a Flux Capacitor and has gone into the future and already knows what is going to happen.

Thanks @CaptainAmerica for your support of TWDC and more importantly, setting me straight.

Although I can seen now you have already been to the future and back, I for one am looking forward to a perfect launch at WDW where the Genie app will guide every guest to the best guest experience in the history of WDW..

 

[CaptainAmerica]

@CaptainAmerica is obviously is the expert on G+ and LL and apparently has a Flux Capacitor and has gone into the future and already knows what is going to happen.

Thanks @CaptainAmerica for your support of TWDC and more importantly, setting me straight.

Although I can seen now you have already been to the future and back, I for one am looking forward to a perfect launch at WDW where the Genie app will guide every guest to the best guest experience in the history of WDW..

What you proposed is entirely incoherent and makes no sense at all.

You said: Genie will send people to rides with low waits to deliberately cause them to develop high waits to force people to pay to ride them.

Except the only rides available to purchase individually are the rides that are guaranteed to always have long waits.