Sped2424
Well-Known Member
lol that happened..
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YOUR Fantasyland Expansion Review
- Thread starter Ignohippo
- Start date
RonAnnArbor
Well-Known Member
FLE review: not ready, and it won't be until the Seven Dwarves Mine Ride finally opens sometime in 2014. What is there is lovely, and the theming and execution is beautiful. It all, however, looks out at one of the largest construction projects you could imagine, with ugly construction walls visible from every angle, except those looking directly at the new buildings. That gives everything a feeling of being 2-dimensional instead of fully-realized. The new attractions are great: food at BOG is very good. Gaston's tavern is a good QS stop. The new Arial dark ride is cute and fun for all ages. But its just not finished. Its like opening a new hotel and only having half the floors open, and those that are open have to listen to the banging and clanging all day.
spacemt354
Chili's
To an extent I agree, and to an extent I disagree.
We are annual passholders ourselves. I agree, especially for people who travel to WDW a lot and spend $$ there every year, we should expect more. We should expect high quality new experiences, especially for the ever increasing ticket prices. Because logically if the ticket prices are going up, there must be some substance inside the parks that justifies the increase. So you do have a point there.
Where I disagree is on a few things. First is the concept that this FLE was ever intended to be a "game changer" You can thank Disney PR for that, hyping this expansion to expectations beyond the scope of what I ever felt this addition was supposed to be. When I saw the original concept art for the several m&g's, I honestly thought it was one of the biggest wastes of space I've ever seen. You've used so much land to target a specific gender and age group, and alienated others from experiencing half to 2/3 of the expansion. When they added the 7 Dwarfs Mine Train instead, I thought it was an improvement. Yet even with the mine coaster, I never thought this FLE was a rival to Potter, no matter what Disney PR tried to spin.
Also where I diagree is the usage of the term "game changer"
Maybe we have different definitions but in my view that term is used for two reasons. Either when two competitors are neck and neck, and one competitor breaks the tie with something spectacular. Or when one competitor finally makes noise, catching up to the leader by closing the gap.
That is why Potter was a game changer. Before Potter, IoA with Spider-Man, Mummy, Hulk and all other fun rides, was not even close to any of the 4 Disney theme parks. Potter closed that gap between Disney and Uni, and technologically, dare I say even surpassed Disney.
But by my interpretation, Disney coudn't have really had a game changer if they were the far and away leading competitor. Did they do the best job they could at maintaining their lead? Not really. But since IoA opened I feel they have added E-tickets to their parks. Everest, Mission:Space, Soarin' for starters. In terms of MK E-ticket additions, none since Splash Mountain in 92. Yet to be fair, there have been some very nice refurbs to classic E-ticket attractions such as HM and Pirates.
Jump to 2013 and now the gap is closed. Uni has made a move, a game changing move, with potentially more to come, and now the ball is in Disney's court. A FLE in some sense had been thought about since the 90s, with Villian Village concepts and others. My guess is since Disney let Potter go to Uni, they underestimated its success and decided to do a simple counter with the FLE. They were wrong, and now, they have to come up a "game-changer" Is it going to be a Pixar Place Expansion? Carsland? Avatar? Gotta be something, and something done right, otherwise they're going to be in trouble. The FLE was never supposed to be that game changer. If it wasn't overhyped, I feel we wouldn't be as critical, because overall it is a very nice addition.
Ah yes, but that's just the point. If Uni can build Potter with nearly the same budget, why shouldn't the FLE be comparable? Have our expectations really become that low?
While I'm not the one who started using the term, I'd say a game-changer is something that pushes the envelope of the theme park experience - something that makes the competition take notice. There's nothing with the FLE that comes close.
Sped2424
Well-Known Member
maybe we should compare it new fantasyland to harrypotter land if the forbidden journey wasn't finished and the hog warts castle was just a construction site. When I put it in that mindset it kinda make sense why everyone is a little disappointed with new fantasyland half of the awe is still being built. If harrypotter land only opened with a rethemed roller coaster and a kiddie coaster and a couple of shops people would be more than a little peeved and start calling it a failure etc etc. So I think where Disney really dropped the ball is when they decided they would make the coaster open in 2014 and Thats more of a last minute consequence if anything. However disney could afford to push back the coaster and still remain top dog Universal needed a game changer so they needed Harry potter land ready and rearing to go all in one piece.
Californian Elitist
Well-Known Member
I think we all know even when the Mine Train opens, it still won't measure up to Potter and whatever else Uni's got going on. Mine Train with princess meet and greets or Forbidden Journey, with Hogwarts and butter beer? Oh, the decision is just so hard...
Psh, yeah right.
Like @spacemt354 said, Disney shouldn't have hyped FLE up so much. That just made it even more underwhelming than it already is.
Psh, yeah right.
Like @spacemt354 said, Disney shouldn't have hyped FLE up so much. That just made it even more underwhelming than it already is.
Comparing the SWMT to the Frobidden Jouney is like comparing the Barnstormer to Everest - there is no comparisson. Sorry, not even close.
Sped2424
Well-Known Member
It is still the centerpiece to the land what I'm saying is that fantasy land isn't done and before it receives the disdain from this community maybe we should wait till 2014 when it is completely finished.
We're simply reviewing what's already there. That's the point of the thread.
Yes, it would be premature to review the entire FLE (because it isn't finished yet), but it isn't too early to review what we have so far.
Sped2424
Well-Known Member
But as Its like @RonAnnArbor said there are levels to the hotel and right now people are saying the entire hotel is a failure on here before it even opens all its floors. And I think some people may be undermining (punny) the 7ds coaster
Therein lies the problem. And it would be a problem even if it were finished.
tnpoohbear
Member
Well I can't wait until the end of April so I can see it for myself! I love anything Disney so I am sure I will love this too!
It will no doubt be a nice addition but I'm afraid your expectations for it may be way too high. I will hold off any assumptions until it's built though.
I can only speak to what I've experienced in the FLE so far and I don't expect the SWMT to somehow make the food at Beast's Castle better, make the ceiling domed, change the perspective of the castle on the hill, make CircusLand anything more than the waste of space that it is, or turn TLM into an E-ticket dark ride.
spacemt354
Chili's
Budget isn't the end all be all factor.
For example, just because a film has a $200 million budget, doesn't mean it will be reviewed the same way as another $200 million film. Or if two sports teams have comparable salaries. Does that mean their respective seasons are going to end the exact same way because they both have the same budget?
There are several more important variables to account for other than budget.
The first variable is, what was the idea that warrented the budget?
In regards to Potter, it was to expand a beloved by all ages novel series into a visceral world based on locations and events in the books.
In regards to FLE, it was to use characters and places from films like BatB, TLM, and Snow White, transporting the fantasy aspect of the films into the real world.
The key is all ages. Harry Potter spans generations and all genders alike. Boys, girls, young, old, Harry Potter is very popular. For my generation, it was the first book we read on our own. For older generations, they watched their kids read it, or maybe they enjoyed it themselves. When comparing the genres to the FLE, i don't know how Belle's cottage or TLM can even be compared to Harry Potter, despite the budget.
The second variable is, what did the budget go towards?
In regards to Potter, since Dueling Dragons and Flight of the Unicorn were already in place, I feel a lot of the budget went towards constructing and designing their E-ticket attraction and the detail and themes inside the land.
In regards to FLE, they are creating new lands based on specific film characters. Thus they had to create "mountains", design lots of rock work, waterfalls, houses, castle walls, circus tents, moving attractions around, a new train station, while retheming the Barnstormer. Oh yeah and probably the most detailed restroom experience ever
Now, I'm not an expert on construction, attraction budgets, etc. I'm sure someone with more knowledge on the subject than myself can speak in more specific terms regarding contractors, supplies and so on. But from what I see when comparing these two expansions is that for the FLE, a lot of time and energy went into redefining the land and scenery itself, not so much the attractions. Whereas WWoHP, since it already had 2 key pieces in place, put a lot of its budget into creating probably the best attraction I've ever been on.
With that said, I don't know how I can have the same expectations for both of these expansions based on the budget? It's not that I have low expectations. It's that I have different expectations, because I didn't listen to the Disney hype. TLM was already in DCA. Logically, how can the same version of a west coast C/D dark ride suddenly become an E-ticket on the east coast? Anyone who went into the WDW version of TLM attraction and thought it was an E-ticket needs to do their homework. Again, I'll hold my full judgment of the land for when 7DMT opens. Do I think it will be an E+ ticket like some PR have said? Ehh.. but until then, I feel like the detail and scenery is the FLE's strong point and we'll have to wait and see if the centerpiece attraction becomes a strong point as well.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Not really undermining anything. We have a pretty good idea of what SDMT is. It is not an E-Ticket. Not really debatable.
Budget isn't the end all be all factor.
For example, just because a film has a $200 million budget, doesn't mean it will be reviewed the same way as another $200 million film. Or if two sports teams have comparable salaries. Does that mean their respective seasons are going to end the exact same way because they both have the same budget?
There are several more important variables to account for other than budget.
The first variable is, what was the idea that warrented the budget?
In regards to Potter, it was to expand a beloved by all ages novel series into a visceral world based on locations and events in the books.
In regards to FLE, it was to use characters and places from films like BatB, TLM, and Snow White, transporting the fantasy aspect of the films into the real world.
The key is all ages. Harry Potter spans generations and all genders alike. Boys, girls, young, old, Harry Potter is very popular. For my generation, it was the first book we read on our own. For older generations, they watched their kids read it, or maybe they enjoyed it themselves. When comparing the genres to the FLE, i don't know how Belle's cottage or TLM can even be compared to Harry Potter, despite the budget.
The second variable is, what did the budget go towards?
In regards to Potter, since Dueling Dragons and Flight of the Unicorn were already in place, I feel a lot of the budget went towards constructing and designing their E-ticket attraction and the detail and themes inside the land.
In regards to FLE, they are creating new lands based on specific film characters. Thus they had to create "mountains", design lots of rock work, waterfalls, houses, castle walls, circus tents, moving attractions around, a new train station, while retheming the Barnstormer. Oh yeah and probably the most detailed restroom experience ever
Now, I'm not an expert on construction, attraction budgets, etc. I'm sure someone with more knowledge on the subject than myself can speak in more specific terms regarding contractors, supplies and so on. But from what I see when comparing these two expansions is that for the FLE, a lot of time and energy went into redefining the land and scenery itself, not so much the attractions. Whereas WWoHP, since it already had 2 key pieces in place, put a lot of its budget into creating probably the best attraction I've ever been on.
With that said, I don't know how I can have the same expectations for both of these expansions based on the budget? It's not that I have low expectations. It's that I have different expectations, because I didn't listen to the Disney hype. TLM was already in DCA. Logically, how can the same version of a west coast C/D dark ride suddenly become an E-ticket on the east coast? Anyone who went into the WDW version of TLM attraction and thought it was an E-ticket needs to do their homework. Again, I'll hold my full judgment of the land for when 7DMT opens. Do I think it will be an E+ ticket like some PR have said? Ehh.. but until then, I feel like the detail and scenery is the FLE's strong point and we'll have to wait and see if the centerpiece attraction becomes a strong point as well.
I'm sorry, no disrespect at all, but I'm not really buying that argument. Imagineering is spending the same money but, in my humble and uneducated opinion, they aren't spending it in the right places.
The quality of rock work, etc. is actually better with Potter and Disney is reusing the Barnstormer and duplicated an already designed ride as well so that argument really doesn't have merit.
spacemt354
Chili's
No disrespect taken.
I'm not really trying to argue that FLE is better than Potter. I'm just trying to say that the FLE was overhyped to be like Potter, when it's not even in the same league.
I 100% agree with you in the bolded. They aren't spending it in the right places. Which is why one expansion has an E-ticket and one doesn't.
I think in the end we are in agreement that Potter > FLE (probs even with 7DMT) I was just saying that budgets, while around the same amount, were spent in different places and for different reasons, hence the different reviews.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
Everything at Potterland is there to tell the same story, FLE doesn't know what it wants to be. Mermaid has a detailed queue that promises a Pirates level ride, but then has a clone of a cheap ride in DCA, Be Our Guest has a great theme, but the food may or may not be up to par, Enchanted Tales with Belle is great, but with all of the great theming, some guests expected a great ride, Dumbo is off doing its thing, and nothing seems to match, except I would say that Belle and the Dwarfs could plausibly be in the same "universe", otherwise its kinda a jumbled up sub-land.
Potterland is awesome because you feel you are in some place specific, which maybe you only get with the Belle area in FLE.
Pixiedustmaker
Well-Known Member
7DMT should have been an E-Ticket on the scale of Splash, IMHO. Not sure where it will come in, but I'm think a D+ Ticket, almost an E-Ticket and a ride with some re-rideability. I'm not happy that 7DMT will only have a couple homage scenes to Snow White, I think 99% of guests want as many dark ride scenes as the old ride, plussed, reimagined, and presented in a new way. If there's no witch/evil queen, then you're losing part of the story and the fun.
WDWFREAK53
Well-Known Member
Ok, I can FINALLY chime in on this one.
We were in "The World" last week and we did spend the majority of our Magic Kingdom time in New Fantasyland (I have a 3 year old).
I'm going to start with Storybook Circus and work my way around to Enchanted Tales with Belle.
Pete's Silly Sideshow:
I did like the theming in it but feel as if it could've been "more." Did people ask for these versions of the characters? I understand that you can find the standard versions of the characters in the parks, but a dedicated meet and greet for obscure versions of the most popular characters seems odd to me. Nevertheless, the sets were nice and the outfits fit the theme. I'm a little disappointed that you can't find "Pete" in "Pete's Silly Sideshow." I think it would've been amazing to have an animatronic Pete "barker" out front, (kind of like Potatohead)...or at least a meet and greet with Pete himself. Also, to have two completely different lines seems silly. If I've waited in line for 45-60 minutes...I'd like to be able to see all 4 characters and not have to get back in line and wait again. (FP here may help like it does for Town Square Theater).
Big Top Souveniers:
Nice theming and I liked the layout of it. Doesn't seem too different though.
Train Station:
I loved it. Incredible detail and it just feels "right" in the location.
Casey Jr.:
My daughter loved this. The sounds of the animals get downright annoying though. The inability to board Casey seems silly...and you should be able to get in an "blow the whistle" which could shoot a burst of water up. I loved how the animal heads moved so the water direction changes. Theming was brilliant with the "turntable."
Great Goofini:
I liked the theming in the queue...but it just seemed better flying through the barn. This one seemed like a step backwards.
Double Dumbo:
These were so "pretty." (Especially at night!) I feel like a LOT more could've been done in the tent. That was a big letdown for me. My daughter liked it though...and I guess that's who it was intended for.
Ariel's Grotto:
Very nice inside...didn't "wow" me, but it's a nice place to meet Ariel.
Under the Sea:
I've heard countless negative things about this attraction and I just don't get it. My daughter has a favorite ride and this is it. What were people expecting? It's a dark ride...I don't think it was ever suppose to be an E-ticket mega-attraction. People rave about Peter Pan's Flight and Toad...but then dismiss this one...when, in actuality, this blows those two away (Should I douse myself in water before I get flamed for that statement?). I loved the simple but effective way they show us going "under the sea," the Ariel swimming above us in the projection, Scuttle animatronic talking to us, and the Under the Sea scene was pretty spectacular...for a dark ride. Were there duplicate figures? Yes. Were some of the figures already not working? Yes (and after multiple rides, became more evident because I started looking for them...and only found the band of green fish that you go under to be not working). I did think they could've done more with the "Kiss the Girl" scene because in the movie, the boat starts rotating, and I felt that we should at least move all the way around the boat like the animals in the movie do. I had no issues with the simple Ursula "cutout" in the wedding scene because it got the point across. IMO, it is the best dark ride in Fantasyland...BY FAR!
Gastons Tavern:
I didn't eat in here, just walked through and picked up a LeFou's Brew to try it out. I did like it, but it doesn't compare to Butterbeer IMO.
Be Our Guest Restaurant:
We had dinner here on Friday night. The food was amazing. Granted, I didn't really go "out there" with my selection, just had the steak with fries and green beans. Steak was cooked perfectly, the fries were awesome, and the beans were great. I ended it with the Lemon cupcake which was delicious aside from the "drizzle" they put on it. Wayyyyy too lemony. Another in our party tried the Ratatouille and she really enjoyed it also. I wish I got the name of our waiter because he was awesome. I asked why there was no "Gray stuff" on the menu and he said that they usually only serve it for birthdays or anniversaries. I asked how it was and he said, "It's delicious, if you don't believe me, you can ask the dishes." He then brought some out for us to try.
Enchanted Tales with Belle:
This was a cute attraction although, it was pretty blatant that we missed a pretty decent portion of the attraction. Our visit apparently had a wardrobe malfunction. Her head was covered with a fitted cover. It would've have been as blatant if it wasn't fabric. Just make a hard covering that blends in. The fact that they have this "finished looking" piece makes it apparent that this happens a LOT. The rest of the attraction was cute though...and I thought Lumiere looked great...(as did Belle )
Castle Walls:
After passing through the castle, they look great...but if you are coming from Pooh, they seem a little just "plopped down" and look a little out of place. The aesthetics of them are really well done though.
All in all, I wasn't "Wow'd" by it, and it was sad to see some of the main effects already not working but it definitely is better than an empty lagoon. The exterior facades all looked fantastic and I really can't wait to see the Mine Train coaster complete to get the full "look" of the land.
We were in "The World" last week and we did spend the majority of our Magic Kingdom time in New Fantasyland (I have a 3 year old).
I'm going to start with Storybook Circus and work my way around to Enchanted Tales with Belle.
Pete's Silly Sideshow:
I did like the theming in it but feel as if it could've been "more." Did people ask for these versions of the characters? I understand that you can find the standard versions of the characters in the parks, but a dedicated meet and greet for obscure versions of the most popular characters seems odd to me. Nevertheless, the sets were nice and the outfits fit the theme. I'm a little disappointed that you can't find "Pete" in "Pete's Silly Sideshow." I think it would've been amazing to have an animatronic Pete "barker" out front, (kind of like Potatohead)...or at least a meet and greet with Pete himself. Also, to have two completely different lines seems silly. If I've waited in line for 45-60 minutes...I'd like to be able to see all 4 characters and not have to get back in line and wait again. (FP here may help like it does for Town Square Theater).
Big Top Souveniers:
Nice theming and I liked the layout of it. Doesn't seem too different though.
Train Station:
I loved it. Incredible detail and it just feels "right" in the location.
Casey Jr.:
My daughter loved this. The sounds of the animals get downright annoying though. The inability to board Casey seems silly...and you should be able to get in an "blow the whistle" which could shoot a burst of water up. I loved how the animal heads moved so the water direction changes. Theming was brilliant with the "turntable."
Great Goofini:
I liked the theming in the queue...but it just seemed better flying through the barn. This one seemed like a step backwards.
Double Dumbo:
These were so "pretty." (Especially at night!) I feel like a LOT more could've been done in the tent. That was a big letdown for me. My daughter liked it though...and I guess that's who it was intended for.
Ariel's Grotto:
Very nice inside...didn't "wow" me, but it's a nice place to meet Ariel.
Under the Sea:
I've heard countless negative things about this attraction and I just don't get it. My daughter has a favorite ride and this is it. What were people expecting? It's a dark ride...I don't think it was ever suppose to be an E-ticket mega-attraction. People rave about Peter Pan's Flight and Toad...but then dismiss this one...when, in actuality, this blows those two away (Should I douse myself in water before I get flamed for that statement?). I loved the simple but effective way they show us going "under the sea," the Ariel swimming above us in the projection, Scuttle animatronic talking to us, and the Under the Sea scene was pretty spectacular...for a dark ride. Were there duplicate figures? Yes. Were some of the figures already not working? Yes (and after multiple rides, became more evident because I started looking for them...and only found the band of green fish that you go under to be not working). I did think they could've done more with the "Kiss the Girl" scene because in the movie, the boat starts rotating, and I felt that we should at least move all the way around the boat like the animals in the movie do. I had no issues with the simple Ursula "cutout" in the wedding scene because it got the point across. IMO, it is the best dark ride in Fantasyland...BY FAR!
Gastons Tavern:
I didn't eat in here, just walked through and picked up a LeFou's Brew to try it out. I did like it, but it doesn't compare to Butterbeer IMO.
Be Our Guest Restaurant:
We had dinner here on Friday night. The food was amazing. Granted, I didn't really go "out there" with my selection, just had the steak with fries and green beans. Steak was cooked perfectly, the fries were awesome, and the beans were great. I ended it with the Lemon cupcake which was delicious aside from the "drizzle" they put on it. Wayyyyy too lemony. Another in our party tried the Ratatouille and she really enjoyed it also. I wish I got the name of our waiter because he was awesome. I asked why there was no "Gray stuff" on the menu and he said that they usually only serve it for birthdays or anniversaries. I asked how it was and he said, "It's delicious, if you don't believe me, you can ask the dishes." He then brought some out for us to try.
Enchanted Tales with Belle:
This was a cute attraction although, it was pretty blatant that we missed a pretty decent portion of the attraction. Our visit apparently had a wardrobe malfunction. Her head was covered with a fitted cover. It would've have been as blatant if it wasn't fabric. Just make a hard covering that blends in. The fact that they have this "finished looking" piece makes it apparent that this happens a LOT. The rest of the attraction was cute though...and I thought Lumiere looked great...(as did Belle
)Castle Walls:
After passing through the castle, they look great...but if you are coming from Pooh, they seem a little just "plopped down" and look a little out of place. The aesthetics of them are really well done though.
All in all, I wasn't "Wow'd" by it, and it was sad to see some of the main effects already not working but it definitely is better than an empty lagoon. The exterior facades all looked fantastic and I really can't wait to see the Mine Train coaster complete to get the full "look" of the land.