Would you risk this?

[tjkraz]

Regardless of how many points you buy, don't buy a 600-pt contract. Break it up into smaller contracts at different resorts (choose your top 3) so that you have lots of flexibility. You could still do your 14-night trips, but you'd just book two reservations and have a split stay.

Depends upon whether one really wants the multiple resorts or not AND/OR is willing to deal with a split stay. If Kidd wants VWL every time, I say buy 600 points at VWL.

As for the size of the contract, that's not necessarily a deal breaker. The main benefit to owning multiple contracts is that a portion of the points can be sold off at some later date.

However, the benefit of buying such a large resale contract is that the prices tend to be significantly lower. If I were in the market for 600 points and there were listings at $60 pp, there's no way I would pay $65 per point to acquire three 200-pt contracts. I'm not paying an extra $3K--or any noteworthy dollar figure--just for some added back end flexibility which I may never even need.

Pay the lower price up front. Worst case is you may have to list for sub-market prices years down the road when trying to sell. Maybe. Possibly. And even if it comes to that, you paid sub-market to begin with so it's a wash.

 

[Tom]

Depends upon whether one really wants the multiple resorts or not AND/OR is willing to deal with a split stay. If Kidd wants VWL every time, I say buy 600 points at VWL.

As for the size of the contract, that's not necessarily a deal breaker. The main benefit to owning multiple contracts is that a portion of the points can be sold off at some later date.

However, the benefit of buying such a large resale contract is that the prices tend to be significantly lower. If I were in the market for 600 points and there were listings at $60 pp, there's no way I would pay $65 per point to acquire three 200-pt contracts. I'm not paying an extra $3K--or any noteworthy dollar figure--just for some added back end flexibility which I may never even need.

Pay the lower price up front. Worst case is you may have to list for sub-market prices years down the road when trying to sell. Maybe. Possibly. And even if it comes to that, you paid sub-market to begin with so it's a wash.

If one is confident they will use 600 points every year (or combination of years with bank/borrow), and can afford the contract indefinitely, then sure.

But, that's a huge contract to be sitting on. Should the need arise to unload it for personal financial reasons, it's going to be very tough, unless they're at a very popular resort.

No matter what, I would never recommend someone buying a 600-pt contract at VB or HH unless that's where they want to stay. For someone always planning to stay at WDW, it would be foolish to buy up a 600-pt contract at one of those resorts. As the seller is probably finding out, it's hard to unload an obscenely large contract at a less than favorable resort.

 

[tjkraz]

But, that's a huge contract to be sitting on. Should the need arise to unload it for personal financial reasons, it's going to be very tough, unless they're at a very popular resort.

If the contract is being paid-for up-front via resale, why would there ever be a reason to sell? Rental rates should continue to outpace annual dues. Unneeded points could easily be rented to more than cover the expenses associated with those points.

I agree that a purchase at Vero or Hilton Head would not be wise but I see no reason to spend additional dollars on multiple resale contracts rather than taking advantage of the usual price break on large resales.

 

[disneyeater]

If the contract is being paid-for up-front via resale, why would there ever be a reason to sell? Rental rates should continue to outpace annual dues. Unneeded points could easily be rented to more than cover the expenses associated with those points.

Divorce, changes to rental rules, changes to 7/11 window that may effect ability to book at WDW.

Just because you believe none of this is likely to happen doesn't mean you shouldn't think about a contingency plan.

 

[tjkraz]

Divorce, changes to rental rules, changes to 7/11 window that may effect ability to book at WDW.

Just because you believe none of this is likely to happen doesn't mean you shouldn't think about a contingency plan.

On a 600-point purchase, would you pay $1000 - 3000 more for such flexibility?

If buying direct, sure it makes all the sense in the world to split the contracts at no cost. If buying resale, I wouldn't pay one penny more for multiple contracts if more economical opportunities exist.

Yes...THINK about contingency plans but don't allow wildly speculative "what if" scenarios to drive poor decision making.

 

[disneyeater]

On a 600-point purchase, would you pay $1000 - 3000 more for such flexibility?

I don't know the answer to that. I am not sure I could pull the trigger on a contract like that I knew to would be incredibly difficult to sell. I probably would to save the cash, but I would certainly think about it.

 

[Annielkd]

buying DVC

Since I've joined a few years ago, things have gotten worse and worse for vacation club members. I find that you probably can get better with a straight up reservation... plus, you can't cancel within 30 days. That's a huge issue. I love Disney... but, I wish I just paid for a regular vacation instead of having the vacation club.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

Since I've joined a few years ago, things have gotten worse and worse for vacation club members. I find that you probably can get better with a straight up reservation... plus, you can't cancel within 30 days. That's a huge issue. I love Disney... but, I wish I just paid for a regular vacation instead of having the vacation club.

I feel that the only way the system could have gotten worse is if you didn't fully understand what the vacation club was when you purchased. If you use your contract for the entire time it is available, discounts will be far better than what is offered to regular cash paying guests (at comparable resorts). You also most definitely can cancel your reservation within 30 days, there are just rules (like with cash guests) of how you can now use those points. As long as you don't cancel on your check in day, you still get to keep your points. They are placed in the restrictive holding account which means you can only make a short term reservation and cannot bank...but they are still there. If you were to cancel a package paid for with cash within 30 days you would be losing your deposit and as it gets closer you could lose more.

 

[Annielkd]

I feel that the only way the system could have gotten worse is if you didn't fully understand what the vacation club was when you purchased. If you use your contract for the entire time it is available, discounts will be far better than what is offered to regular cash paying guests (at comparable resorts). You also most definitely can cancel your reservation within 30 days, there are just rules (like with cash guests) of how you can now use those points. As long as you don't cancel on your check in day, you still get to keep your points. They are placed in the restrictive holding account which means you can only make a short term reservation and cannot bank...but they are still there. If you were to cancel a package paid for with cash within 30 days you would be losing your deposit and as it gets closer you could lose more.

It depends on when you are going to be able to come back again and your use year. This time I can't becaue I don't have enough time in my use year.. so I would lose the points. As for it getting worse, it's just a feeling I have based on what they keep cutting out. (tram times after closing for extra magic hours... things like that) I bought it hoping it would be a savings, but what I pay will take many, many years to equal out what I would have paid in cash with all the promotions Disney keeps offering. I kind of feel like they already have our money, they don't have to provide the service because we are stuck. (For example as a paying customer I used advanced check in service and every single time when I got there, my room was ready... I didn't have to always wait til 3 or 4 or later to check in) I really think they treat the cash bookings better.

 

[toolsnspools]

Consider the ability to "will" the contract to your kids as well. God forbid you keel over before the end of the contract, it would be far easier to leave separate contracts to each of your kids than to give them all access to (fight over) the same contract.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

It depends on when you are going to be able to come back again and your use year. This time I can't becaue I don't have enough time in my use year.. so I would lose the points. As for it getting worse, it's just a feeling I have based on what they keep cutting out. (tram times after closing for extra magic hours... things like that) I bought it hoping it would be a savings, but what I pay will take many, many years to equal out what I would have paid in cash with all the promotions Disney keeps offering. I kind of feel like they already have our money, they don't have to provide the service because we are stuck. (For example as a paying customer I used advanced check in service and every single time when I got there, my room was ready... I didn't have to always wait til 3 or 4 or later to check in) I really think they treat the cash bookings better.

Not sure what you mean by tram service. Check in will vary, but the reason you often have to wait a little longer at DVC resorts is because the system is designed to be at full occupancy year round (as are all timeshare programs). This means that they don't have excess inventory where they might have had a room empty from the night before. If you do online check-in and put that you are arriving early, then they will try their hardest but nothing is guaranteed. As far as the money, well it is supposed to take sometime to break even and come out ahead. If the system made you a winner after only a couple of years then everyone would be doing it. DVC (like other timeshares) is an investment and will take time to recover the cost. If you are serious about DVC then you need to think of it over the life of the contract and not just the next few years.

 

[Annielkd]

agree

I do agree with you about breaking even. When we figured this out we thought it would take about 10 years to break even. BUT, with all the 30% off specials they offer, it will take far longer than what we though. I meant monorail not tram. The DVC newsletter said that they no longer will provide monorail service for the extra magic hours like they used to. For someone like me, I probably would have been better off sticking with rack rates and having the services that are provided by that instead of DVC. I'm sure it's worth it for people who aren't able to book when they have the discounts but each year I've gone during special offers. It's hard knowing that I'm not getting a bonus like free dining, or 30% off. (And it will take over 15 years to break even with those rates)

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I do agree with you about breaking even. When we figured this out we thought it would take about 10 years to break even. BUT, with all the 30% off specials they offer, it will take far longer than what we though. I meant monorail not tram. The DVC newsletter said that they no longer will provide monorail service for the extra magic hours like they used to. For someone like me, I probably would have been better off sticking with rack rates and having the services that are provided by that instead of DVC. I'm sure it's worth it for people who aren't able to book when they have the discounts but each year I've gone during special offers. It's hard knowing that I'm not getting a bonus like free dining, or 30% off. (And it will take over 15 years to break even with those rates)

The monorail service isn't a dvc related issue, it is affecting everyone at those 3 resorts. Discounts will vary depending on the person, but if I look out over the length of contract I have already saved about 3,000 over the last couple of years even when taking the best discounts into consideration. It might take me longer to break even but as far as I see I am in for 50 years...not 5,10,15 or even 20.

 

[Annielkd]

The monorail service isn't a dvc related issue, it is affecting everyone at those 3 resorts. Discounts will vary depending on the person, but if I look out over the length of contract I have already saved about 3,000 over the last couple of years even when taking the best discounts into consideration. It might take me longer to break even but as far as I see I am in for 50 years...not 5,10,15 or even 20.

I can see if you are in it for 50 years. I know that's never going to be the case with us. I was buying it to give it to my son to use in about 15 years. I wanted to break even by then... and I don't think that will be the case. Of course, I don't mind going to the moderate places at all, and that's why I'm thinking that it would take at least 20 years to break even if they keep offering those deals.

 

[Tom]

I do agree with you about breaking even. When we figured this out we thought it would take about 10 years to break even. BUT, with all the 30% off specials they offer, it will take far longer than what we though. I meant monorail not tram. The DVC newsletter said that they no longer will provide monorail service for the extra magic hours like they used to. For someone like me, I probably would have been better off sticking with rack rates and having the services that are provided by that instead of DVC. I'm sure it's worth it for people who aren't able to book when they have the discounts but each year I've gone during special offers. It's hard knowing that I'm not getting a bonus like free dining, or 30% off. (And it will take over 15 years to break even with those rates)

First, the only DVC resort affected by the monorail is Bay Lake Tower. So unless you stay there every time, the monorail hours are a moot point in a DVC discussion or argument.

Secondly, you most certainly can not use Value/Mod/Dlx resort rates as part of the formula when deciding the break even point. That's false math, no matter how you spin it. To determine your break even point, you must figure what you would have spent at a DVC accommodation (i.e. equal to where you're staying with points) over the course of time. When the total of those stays equals your contract cost - that's the break even point. No earlier. No later.

For example (and I'm using random round numbers), if you stay a week at Villa X every year, and your room would cost $2,000 cash...and you paid $20,000 for your contract, your break even point would be 10 years (20,000 / 2,000).

You would only compare the cost of a DVC contract to the rack rate of a non-DVC resort BEFORE purchasing a contract. Because if you only ever stay at a Value Resort, buying a DVC contract would take you a lot longer to realize the value of it.

I can see if you are in it for 50 years. I know that's never going to be the case with us. I was buying it to give it to my son to use in about 15 years. I wanted to break even by then... and I don't think that will be the case. Of course, I don't mind going to the moderate places at all, and that's why I'm thinking that it would take at least 20 years to break even if they keep offering those deals.

If you have a 200 point contract, and you'll stay for a week for roughly 10 years, you'll break even. That's the rule of thumb with DVC. It would skew if you bought a larger contract, or if you take short trips every year, but the average is 10 years.

Again, you can't compare staying at a Villa on DVC points to staying at Riverside with Free Dining or a Room Offer. That's not even Apples and Oranges. That's Apples and Chairs.

The thing you have going against you is that you went into your purchase without the intent of staying at DVC level all the time.

 

[Annielkd]

Nope

I went into it thinking it would be better than just buying rack rate. I still belive my services were better when I wasn't using DVC, I liked checking in early, and the 30% off deals make it much longer to pay off then 10 years. I've never actually cancelled, this was my first time considering it... and it's not possible because of my use year. Yes, I was planning to stay at Bay Lake Towers since that was my contract was with. So, yes... it does effect me.

 

[Tom]

I went into it thinking it would be better than just buying rack rate. I still belive my services were better when I wasn't using DVC, I liked checking in early, and the 30% off deals make it much longer to pay off then 10 years. I've never actually cancelled, this was my first time considering it... and it's not possible because of my use year. Yes, I was planning to stay at Bay Lake Towers since that was my contract was with. So, yes... it does effect me.

What were your factors when buying in? If you had not purchased DVC, would you have stayed at Bay Lake on most of your trips, or would you have stayed at a Moderate or Deluxe? If the latter, your numbers never would have worked out if you were looking for a 10-15 year payoff.

You can check in early at DVC....if your room is ready. If you travel during peak times, you won't get an early room anywhere. We've been able to get into our DVC rooms at 11am routinely.

There are risks associated with canceling any vacation. At least we get 30 days before our penalty kicks in. It's 45 days with regular resorts, and the penalty is $200 (plus insuance if you had it).

And you say that your contract is at BLT, but yet you were unable to book a room at 11 months? Were you trying to go over Christmas?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I went into it thinking it would be better than just buying rack rate. I still belive my services were better when I wasn't using DVC, I liked checking in early, and the 30% off deals make it much longer to pay off then 10 years. I've never actually cancelled, this was my first time considering it... and it's not possible because of my use year. Yes, I was planning to stay at Bay Lake Towers since that was my contract was with. So, yes... it does effect me.

Annie, don't want to pick on you, but you bring up points that others bring up in other threads.

First, I am trying to find a 30% discount anywhere for WDW, and I am unable to see one. Where did you see such a discount? The only discounts they usually offer are for either OKW or SSR at 25% (and 30% in the past) off for very select dates, and very few rooms available. I have NEVER seen a 30% discount on a BLT DVC suite. Remember that they are different than a standard room, and you simply cannot compare the two. It is apples to oranges.

You can check-in up to 10 days in advance with the DVC resorts, and, if your room is not ready when you get there, you leave your bags there, and head to the parks. You'll get a text when your room is ready. I mean, is it really THAT big a deal? I cannot believe that your room was always ready when paying cash (unless you only go at slow times of the year).

As far as monorail service, well, that affects everyone staying at all 3 resorts, not just DVC members, so I guess we don't understand why you are saying that it affects you only as a DVC member??? In addition, your resort is less than a 10 minute walk from MK anyway, so what is the big deal?

So to properly calculate what your payback time is, you have to check what the rates would be for YOUR DVC room for the time you would stay there. For instance, if you are staying for 7 nights during Regular season, the nightly rate for a Studio Lake View is $500. So a regular stay would have cost you $3500. If you look at points needed, it would be Dream or Magic season, so either 139 or 153 points. If you purchased a 160 point contract right now, it would cost $23,200 from Disney. At that rate, it would take you only 7 one week long yearly trips to more than break even with the initial points cost. Not 15. Any other comparison is apples to oranges (or chairs ).

If you like staying in the moderates a lot, then maybe DVC simply wasn't for you in the first place. :shrug: If you don't feel the value, then the resale market for BLT isn't too bad right now.

 

[disneyeater]

Annie, don't want to pick on you, but you bring up points that others bring up in other threads.

First, I am trying to find a 30% discount anywhere for WDW, and I am unable to see one. Where did you see such a discount? The only discounts they usually offer are for either OKW or SSR at 25% (and 30% in the past) off for very select dates, and very few rooms available. I have NEVER seen a 30% discount on a BLT DVC suite. Remember that they are different than a standard room, and you simply cannot compare the two. It is apples to oranges.

You can check-in up to 10 days in advance with the DVC resorts, and, if your room is not ready when you get there, you leave your bags there, and head to the parks. You'll get a text when your room is ready. I mean, is it really THAT big a deal? I cannot believe that your room was always ready when paying cash (unless you only go at slow times of the year).

As far as monorail service, well, that affects everyone staying at all 3 resorts, not just DVC members, so I guess we don't understand why you are saying that it affects you only as a DVC member??? In addition, your resort is less than a 10 minute walk from MK anyway, so what is the big deal?

So to properly calculate what your payback time is, you have to check what the rates would be for YOUR DVC room for the time you would stay there. For instance, if you are staying for 7 nights during Regular season, the nightly rate for a Studio Lake View is $500. So a regular stay would have cost you $3500. If you look at points needed, it would be Dream or Magic season, so either 139 or 153 points. If you purchased a 160 point contract right now, it would cost $23,200 from Disney. At that rate, it would take you only 7 one week long yearly trips to more than break even with the initial points cost. Not 15. Any other comparison is apples to oranges (or chairs ).

If you like staying in the moderates a lot, then maybe DVC simply wasn't for you in the first place. :shrug: If you don't feel the value, then the resale market for BLT isn't too bad right now.

To be fair, Disney doesn't advertise that it can save you money if you normally stay in DVC resorts and I think you can break even and save money eventually even when compared to moderates.

I think it is perfectly reasonable to do that comparision if that is where you would have stayed otherwise. To compare to the DVC room if you wouldn't have stayed there anyway is just an exercise to make you feel better.

 

[slappy magoo]

Annie, don't want to pick on you, but you bring up points that others bring up in other threads.

First, I am trying to find a 30% discount anywhere for WDW, and I am unable to see one. Where did you see such a discount? The only discounts they usually offer are for either OKW or SSR at 25% (and 30% in the past) off for very select dates, and very few rooms available. I have NEVER seen a 30% discount on a BLT DVC suite. Remember that they are different than a standard room, and you simply cannot compare the two. It is apples to oranges.

You can check-in up to 10 days in advance with the DVC resorts, and, if your room is not ready when you get there, you leave your bags there, and head to the parks. You'll get a text when your room is ready. I mean, is it really THAT big a deal? I cannot believe that your room was always ready when paying cash (unless you only go at slow times of the year).

As far as monorail service, well, that affects everyone staying at all 3 resorts, not just DVC members, so I guess we don't understand why you are saying that it affects you only as a DVC member??? In addition, your resort is less than a 10 minute walk from MK anyway, so what is the big deal?

So to properly calculate what your payback time is, you have to check what the rates would be for YOUR DVC room for the time you would stay there. For instance, if you are staying for 7 nights during Regular season, the nightly rate for a Studio Lake View is $500. So a regular stay would have cost you $3500. If you look at points needed, it would be Dream or Magic season, so either 139 or 153 points. If you purchased a 160 point contract right now, it would cost $23,200 from Disney. At that rate, it would take you only 7 one week long yearly trips to more than break even with the initial points cost. Not 15. Any other comparison is apples to oranges (or chairs ).

If you like staying in the moderates a lot, then maybe DVC simply wasn't for you in the first place. :shrug: If you don't feel the value, then the resale market for BLT isn't too bad right now.

I'm more on your side than not, but your math is faulty. First of all, even if you couldn't find a 30% discount on a BLT room, a little digging would find you SOME discount on the room. Heck, just by being a AAA member, you could save something like 10 or 15%. Annual passholders would also, often have good discounts; how good will depend on time of year.

But even if you want to ignore the possibility of finding a room-only discount, you're ignoring the cost of maintenance fees in your estimate of how long it would take you to "even out" buying DVC versus paying cash. At $4.23 a point (now, and fees do go up), you'll have paid over $4700 in 7 years (again, only based on what dues cost now, I won't argue more than that because naturally, as maintenance fees go up, so will "rack rates" if you're paying in cash. So it'd really take you closer to 9 or 10 years as a DVC member to start equating what you're seeing in "savings."

And of course, THOSE estimates also assume you didn't finance your points. If you did, and through Disney, it will probably be 15-18 years before you "break even."

But on the flip side, you have the luxury of not only going when you WANT to go, but when you're ABLE to go, without worrying about hopefully maybe getting some kind of deal. Sad truth is not everyone has flexibility with their job or school schedules, and Disney doesn't always offer sweet deals during the holidays/spring break/summer seasons that most people are able to swing going. Being a DVC member spares you that headache of trying to arrange your trip around a promotion that isn't a convenient time of year for you to go (even though those times are usually less crowded, so man does it get tempting).

Also, on the alternate-flip-pass-the-dutchie-on-the-left-hand-side side, you don't HAVE to buy your points from Disney. If you don't mind the restrictions that come from resale, you can save a good chunk of change that way, even if you're buying BLT points.