News World Drive Magic Kingdom Intersection Re-Design

[GrumpyFan]

I have read this a few times now, and I could be wrong, heck I probably am wrong, but none the less, pretty sure all the roads are RCID's, before and after the toll plazas. Even the parking lots. RCID is responsible for all the infrastructure needs of the resort. From building codes for a gaint golf ball or fairtale castle, canals and waterways, to lane striping of a road.

In the case of this application/permit, the Applicant, Agent and Other Interested Party(s) on it are all "Reedy Creek Improvement District". Others sometimes have both RCID and Walt Disney World Parks & Resorts.

 

[JohnD]

They may have an arrangement with RCID that they own/maintain the physical roads/ROW on WDP&R land, but if you look at parcel lines, you'll see that the main roads are on RCID land up to the parcel boundaries, and you can often see a difference in pavement at roughly where the parcel lines are. Everything from the toll plazas up to Reams all sit on WDP&R property. I'd have to take a look at the ROW provisions to be sure, of course.

WDW is the RCID.

 

[maxairmike]

WDW is the RCID.

Well yes, when it comes down to it, they're essentially the same, but there are important legal and financial separators. RCID's funding is through utilities and the taxes paid by WDW and the few other businesses in the District, plus of course bonds and things like that.

In the case of this application/permit, the Applicant, Agent and Other Interested Party(s) on it are all "Reedy Creek Improvement District". Others sometimes have both RCID and Walt Disney World Parks & Resorts.

Hadn't even thought to look at those lines. Now I really want to find the ROW provisions to figure out who is responsible for what portions of the roads.

 

[JohnD]

Well yes, when it comes down to it, they're essentially the same, but there are important legal and financial separators. RCID's funding is through utilities and the taxes paid by WDW and the few other businesses in the District, plus of course bonds and things like that.



Hadn't even thought to look at those lines. Now I really want to find the ROW provisions to figure out who is responsible for what portions of the roads.

Oh, sure. When you get into the legal mumbo jumbo they are separate entities. One is a government, the other a corporation. But make no mistake -- WDW is RCID and RCID is WDW.

 

[danlb_2000]

Oh, sure. When you get into the legal mumbo jumbo they are separate entities. One is a government, the other a corporation. But make no mistake -- WDW is RCID and RCID is WDW.

But there are differences. RCID can fund projects through bond issues, WDW cannot.

 

[GrumpyFan]

Oh, sure. When you get into the legal mumbo jumbo they are separate entities. One is a government, the other a corporation. But make no mistake -- WDW is RCID and RCID is WDW.

They're closely tied to each other. Except, they also operate with their own budgets.
Of course, much of the RCID board are "Disney people", who help influence the direction, and the two entities share information and plans.

It may seem nit-picky in distinguishing the two, but I was just curious who was leading this project and where the funding was coming from.

 

[maxairmike]

When did RCID completely redesign their website? Can't seem to find half the stuff that used to be available, including the 2020 visioning plan. Bah.

EDIT: Nevermind, found them! They buried them in an easy to miss "More Documents" drop down in the "Codes" section.

Oh, sure. When you get into the legal mumbo jumbo they are separate entities. One is a government, the other a corporation. But make no mistake -- WDW is RCID and RCID is WDW.

I'm well aware, but trying to figure out what party is funding most/all of it means taking those separations into account. Given that RCID is the only one listed on the permits I'm going to guess that means no funding is coming from P&R side.

 

[jt04]

Since this is such a highly traveled area I would expect this to take a while.

Not to mention possible future phases. Which I expect this will make possible.

 

[Mike730]

That's where we disagree. That road that ends abruptly on the less cluttered plan continues up to the speedway on the "mess" of a drawing all outlined in yellow. That's clearly the new divided section of Floridian Way which will allow people to not have to cut in front of the Poly. It's not nearly wide enough for the number of lanes they need for the toll plaza.

How can you justify this when there's a spur that goes directly to Floridian way just south of that new wide road (under the circled road)? They didn't bore those holes for nothing. You can pretty much take what @articos says as fact. Floridian way is just getting a widening. That new fat road on the speedway is MK's new entrance/exit.

 

[marni1971]

Not sure about today, but I recall a time when the approach roads up to the plazas were considered "public" and beyond the tolls "private".

 

[*Q*]

I have also heard that RCID owns the roads up until the toll plaza, and then Disney owns them beyond.

 

[mm121]

I don't see this fourth option you mention on the maps. How do you get to the GF now? Looks to me like you continue north through the toll booth and take a left onto Seven Seas Dr to Floridian Way? If so, wouldn't this just stay the same?

to get to GF you dont need to go thru the plaza you can take world north over the plaza traffic to SSD

at leat until fW is extended then you can take it direct to GF

lets hope they have plans to reconfigure the intersection of ssd and fw when it is extended

I think I'm following what you're saying here. So would the new toll plaza in a later phase be located near the old back turn of the speedway, similar to this?
View attachment 141531

not sure where everyone is getting that a new plaza is being built

seems like if they were building a new plaza theyd do it before this road construction

 

[marni1971]

not sure where everyone is getting that a new plaza is being built

I got a note from someone I trust.

 

[raymusiccity]

They should follow Universal's example, which is the construction of grade separated tram/bus lanes they plan on building along existing roads to connect parking, the new hotels, and the new water park. The way it's designed, more destinations can be easily added. Plus, those lanes can be converted easily to electric rapid transit or PRT any time in the future. Using the same system as Uni would also reduce costs because they would be using a single supplier.

I don't know about whether they're following any Uni example, but, the finishing touches are already being put on the dedicated bus lanes leading into Disney Springs. I'm sure this format will spread to other traffic bottlenecks around the resort.

 

[mm121]

I don't know about whether they're following any Uni example, but, the finishing touches are already being put on the dedicated bus lanes leading into Disney Springs. I'm sure this format will spread to other traffic bottlenecks around the resort.

just too bad they eliminated the flyover to remove another traffic light on LBV at the bus lane intersection.

 

[dstrawn9889]

to get to GF you dont need to go thru the plaza you can take world north over the plaza traffic to SSD

at leat until fW is extended then you can take it direct to GF

lets hope they have plans to reconfigure the intersection of ssd and fw when it is extended

not sure where everyone is getting that a new plaza is being built

seems like if they were building a new plaza theyd do it before this road construction

because you have to build the roads as well... the plaza being built does nothing if there are no roads to it.

 

[FerretAfros]

Which leads me to believe they might be doing this alignment to accommodate something in the future.

I wouldn't read too much into it. Given the configuration of the surrounding roads and overpasses, there's no real way to make a connection to the STOLport without adding a signal, thereby defeating the whole purpose of all these lovely new grade separations. Due to the World Dr connection at the south end, it would have to remain one-way, which would only succeed in duplicating a route they'll already have, so I suspect it will remain as proposed for the foreseeable future

More likely, it just happens to be the most convenient location to connect into Vista Way. It gives them plenty of space for the SWM facility and monorail pylons, while staying clear of the existing roadway so the proposed ramp can be built without shutting that down. It's also far enough west of the curve in Vista Way that they wouldn't have to worry about reduced sight distance in the merge area, which would be a problem if they followed the existing backstage road through there

How can you justify this when there's a spur that goes directly to Floridian way just south of that new wide road (under the circled road)? They didn't bore those holes for nothing. You can pretty much take what @articos says as fact. Floridian way is just getting a widening. That new fat road on the speedway is MK's new entrance/exit.

I suspect that this drawing only shows a portion of the work. From page 6 of the PDF that @danlb_2000 posted:

New approximately 3,900 LF of Floridian Way eastbound and westbound. The new roadway will be a 4-lane divided urban roadway section with paved shoulders. Embankment grades will be at or near existing grades along the majority of the alignment.

It's tough to say exactly where World Dr ends and Floridian Way begins here, but that sure doesn't look like 3,900 LF of roadwork on Floridian Way to me. I would bet that the proposed road would tie into the existing near the intersection with Bear Island Rd, which is on the far left of your image. Since there wouldn't need to be any aerial structures for that, it could explain why it's not included in these geotech drawings

I feel kind of bad that we're doing an in-depth investigation on the report, which is only at the 60% submittal level. But not bad enough that I'm unwilling to tear it apart for details!

 

[chiefs11]

Seems kind of silly that the permit shows them building a new road to east vista and still leaving the old one there. Why not just fix that one up.

Looking at the higher-res image of the permit, I can see a few reasons:
1. The existing road comes in on a curve, so the new location of the right-turn/merge would be safer.
2. The new configuration appears to have a long merge lane where you turn onto Vista that extends all the way up to the curve.

The fact that it lines up with the STOL access road is either just a coincidence or to allow easier truck access for that storage area.

 

[articos]

Not sure about today, but I recall a time when the approach roads up to the plazas were considered "public" and beyond the tolls "private".

Still that way. Roadways up to the land boundaries of the toll plazas are public roads, within Bay Lake or LBV, overseen by RCID. Toll plazas and parking lots are private property, under WDW Co.

 

[jsim6283]

How can you justify this when there's a spur that goes directly to Floridian way just south of that new wide road (under the circled road)? They didn't bore those holes for nothing. You can pretty much take what @articos says as fact. Floridian way is just getting a widening. That new fat road on the speedway is MK's new entrance/exit.

Why is everyone assuming the existing parking lot entrance is going away? Looking at the plan, there are yellow lines on the edges of the existing roadway going into the lot. Seems pretty clear to me that it is staying. Looks like the Floridian portion that currently ends at the speedway on this plan will be accessed via a left exit from World Dr.