WDW Awakens ...

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
The loss of CoP would not just be tragic, it would almost be criminal. There is so little left to link us to the original Disney concepts and everyone seems to want it gone. If they took it out would I lose any sleep? Not a wink, but, it would be sad that we, as a society can never seem to see the positive of maintaining some of our history.

I understand and agree with what you say. I think my comment was more fearful than anything else. Fearful that the COP will disappear sooner or later because of its dated quaintness. I'd be very happy if it stayed. Same with Bears, even though I don't really visit it anymore.

Some might say that "Great Moments with Mr. Lincoln" is dated and quaint. Well, in terms of tech, the Lincoln AA isn't as astounding, although still very well done, as it was at one time. What really keeps it relevant is the real Mr. Lincoln, and what he meant to Walt, and still means to modern-day Americans. For those reasons, that attraction should never ever go away. I can only hope that the Disney park-runners feel the same, and also feel that way about Bears and especially COP. We'll just have to keep our fingers crossed.
 

EPCOTCenterLover

Well-Known Member
Imagination got an update, twice... how do you like it now?

Dinorama is something you don't like so... off with its head.

Muppets are now classic and still loved by many, however you don't like it... so be gone you.
Lack of CoP support puts you in the line of people that are unable to appreciate their history and therefore would like it gone. It has many more reasons for remaining then just "not up to date", boring to you, etc. That attitude points out to me someone that has no sense of history or the importance of seeing where we came from either socially or theme park establishing. Management at Disney hates it because it constantly points out the degree of excellence that was once the hallmark of Disney. It is something to compare yesterday with today and by that comparison... today sucks.
Sorry, but you don't know me, so it's clear your judgments of me and my perspective are off base.
Imagination is but a shadow of what it was. 2nd "fix" is still a mess of a classic attraction.
Dinorama destroys the exotic, authentic feel of DAK. You might scream "in theme", but I say cheap fix.
I like Kermit, but Muppets are past their prime.
CoP was a landmark, historic attraction at DL, not WDW. Either bring it up to speed with a full upgrade or close it.

All you have to do is read my blog to see I appreciate and value Disney park history. If you read it, you might be surprised.
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
OK, but I have to ask... are you there everyday and know that those problems still exist? I have also seen AA problems such as the daughter having her hand holding her hair brush fall off and was just hanging by wires. I went on again the next day and it was fixed, exactly when is something that I don't know. It might be the same day or overnight. I just don't know. A number of times mechanical things break, especially something as old as CoP, and it has very little to do with maintenance, but, so far I have never seen anything that wasn't fix by the next time I saw it. I know that there are some things that break and they just don't bother with, that is wrong, but, I'm sure that they are feeling that those particular things are not things that the general public would be aware of having worked in the past and don't really change the story. I'm sure that there is a lot of prioritizing when it comes to maintenance tasks.
I'm not there every day but I've been enough times over recent years to know that most of the decline I've noticed still persists. Didn't see it last time 2 weeks ago but considering that it didn't go down for refurb since the trip before that I'm willing to bet that none of the things I mentioned have been fixed.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
Sorry, but you don't know me, so it's clear your judgments of me and my perspective are off base.
Imagination is but a shadow of what it was. 2nd "fix" is still a mess of a classic attraction.
Dinorama destroys the exotic, authentic feel of DAK. You might scream "in theme", but I say cheap fix.
I like Kermit, but Muppets are past their prime.
CoP was a landmark, historic attraction at DL, not WDW. Either bring it up to speed with a full upgrade or close it.

All you have to do is read my blog to see I appreciate and value Disney park history. If you read it, you might be surprised.
OK, but except for the first one, which was the point I was making. An upgrade is not automatically the answer. The rest is personal opinion. As for CoP, all it can possibly be at this point is historic both in story and in presentation. Any alterations to it will make it Disney history in name only. We will never get Disney to do any type of upgrade to it, and they shouldn't. It is actually, like it for what it is or it will be gone. They don't really care. As a history of progress in the 20th century it is fine as is. I'd like to see it on it's 100th anniversary, however, I will be 126 years old by then, but, I'll hang around if they let me. :)
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
I like the "Lamest Summer Ever!" campaign... Actully I liked when they didn't have to have an Ad campaign at all...and they offered Magic Til Midnight...and it was just summer at Walt Disney World... Maybe they could skip one Ad campaign and put the money into a new attraction so they actually have something to hype!
 

ford91exploder

Resident Curmudgeon
I like the "Lamest Summer Ever!" campaign... Actully I liked when they didn't have to have an Ad campaign at all...and they offered Magic Til Midnight...and it was just summer at Walt Disney World... Maybe they could skip one Ad campaign and put the money into a new attraction so they actually have something to hype!

Marketing campaigns are far cheaper than actual substance...
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
OK, but except for the first one, which was the point I was making. An upgrade is not automatically the answer. The rest is personal opinion. As for CoP, all it can possibly be at this point is historic both in story and in presentation. Any alterations to it will make it Disney history in name only. We will never get Disney to do any type of upgrade to it, and they shouldn't. It is actually, like it for what it is or it will be gone. They don't really care. As a history of progress in the 20th century it is fine as is. I'd like to see it on it's 100th anniversary, however, I will be 126 years old by then, but, I'll hang around if they let me. :)

It's already been upgraded a few times. The song, script, and final scene have been changed at least three times since the World's Fair. Disney restored the original song lyrics in 1994, but it's a new recording. There's no reason not to update it except laziness.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
It's already been upgraded a few times. The song, script, and final scene have been changed at least three times since the World's Fair. Disney restored the original song lyrics in 1994, but it's a new recording. There's no reason not to update it except laziness.
EXACTLY!
and let's face it...the last iteration of the finale scene was not very well written... They have in the past, and can in the present , do better than this... If they put in the 1964 scene as done at the World's Fair, It would in all it's retro glory be relevant as a time capsule attraction...never mind the fact that it would look amazing!cccccccc
5a029502f9f841341994e87255ea13cb.jpg
 

matt9112

Well-Known Member
I won't be graphic, but the DHS bathrooms are the Worst lately. We were there in April, and two of the only four men's room stalls on Sunset Blvd. (totaling those by HToT and PlanetH) had signs on them proclaiming "out of order" leaving lines at the ones that were working. This is a street with 2 QS counters, a snack stand, a sweets shop and Starbucks on the corner. WOEfully less than what is needed.

Reguaedless of broken toilets or not it sounds like the bathrooms need to be expanded.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
It's already been upgraded a few times. The song, script, and final scene have been changed at least three times since the World's Fair. Disney restored the original song lyrics in 1994, but it's a new recording. There's no reason not to update it except laziness.
Continuity is the reason. You cannot update the final scene without forcing the gap between the previous scene and that one even wider apart. The sad fact of the matter is the best they can do is the present and I think we already know what the present is since we live in it. As it stands, even with the upgrades still pretty much kept it in the 20th century. To properly upgrade it would involve all the scenes thus probably eliminating the first scene which is pretty important to the story, about progress made. If there is a need to go beyond that then a different attraction should be made. Maybe call it Horizons or something like that, but, it should stay were it's at because it does show progress from the beginning of the century to the end of it. Disney and everyone else has wisely chosen not to attempt to indicate what they think the future will be like. Two reasons: The first is that, at best, by the time they are able to physically upgrade it would already be obsolete and Second, nobody knows or can even guess on the future. Even Horizons attempt at it, although commendable, has not come close to what is actually happening. Do colonies live in outer space? (don't say Space Station, we all know that isn't a colony), Do we have undersea communities? Not unless we grow gills. How about the hover type agricultural methods, those are pretty common right?

What it would take to upgrade CoP to anything current would completely alter the meaning and the purpose of it to begin with. The idea that the last scene originally could somewhat depict the future didn't work out either which is why it was changed, but, now it would, like I said, create to much of a gap and become confusing. Going from the 50s to the next century would not be a good jump. Keeping it as a historical Disney classic, is the only thing that makes sense anymore, so if we want to keep it around, that is where is has to stay. They have tried more then once to shut it down and I'm sure the pencil pushers would like nothing better then to be able to justify leveling it. And that is something that no one should find to be a positive.
 
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Bocabear

Well-Known Member
....And the old narration in the peoplemover used to talk about the Metro Retro society presentation of the Carousel Of Progress... So... Bring it back to it's 1964 roots...they have already brought back the original theme song.. Now do over the last scene as in the original production, and you have a beautifully done time capsule attraction...
 

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Continuity is the reason. You cannot update the final scene without forcing the gap between the previous scene and that one even wider apart. The sad fact of the matter is the best they can do is the present and I think we already know what the present is since we live in it. As it stands, even with the upgrades still pretty much kept it in the 20th century. To properly upgrade it would involve all the scenes thus probably eliminating the first scene which is pretty important to the story, about progress made. If there is a need to go beyond that then a different attraction should be made. Maybe call it Horizons or something like that, but, it should stay were it's at because it does show progress from the beginning of the century to the end of it. Disney and everyone else has wisely chosen not to attempt to indicate what they think the future will be like. Two reasons: The first is that, at best, by the time they are able to physically upgrade it was already be obsolete and Second, nobody knows or can even guess on the future. Even Horizons attempt at it, although commendable, has not come close to what is actually happening. Do colonies live in outer space? (don't say Space Station, we all know that isn't a colony), Do we have undersea communities? Not unless we grow gills. How about the hover type agricultural methods, those are pretty common right?

What it would take to upgrade CoP to anything current would completely alter the meaning and the purpose of it to begin with. The idea that the last scene originally could somewhat depict the future didn't work out either which is why it was changed, but, now it would, like I said, create to much of a gap and become confusing. Going from the 50s to the next century would not be a good jump. Keeping it as a historical Disney classic, is the only thing that makes sense anymore, so if we want to keep it around, that is where is has to stay. They have tried more then once to shut it down and I'm sure the pencil pushers would like nothing better then to be able to justify leveling it. And that is something that no one should find to be a positive.
That's actually exactly why Horizons could've worked so well if it stayed up until now: none of it has happened yet. It's all still the future. Newer AA's like SSE and American Adventure got and it would've been golden.
 

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
That's actually exactly why Horizons could've worked so well if it stayed up until now: none of it has happened yet. It's all still the future. Newer AA's like SSE and American Adventure got and it would've been golden.
Can't say that I disagree with that at all. But, alas it is gone and will not return. Like I said, I don't believe that Disney will ever tackle anything that is designed to predict the future ever again.
 

PorterRedkey

Well-Known Member
That's actually exactly why Horizons could've worked so well if it stayed up until now: none of it has happened yet. It's all still the future. Newer AA's like SSE and American Adventure got and it would've been golden.
I would have added a new movie too, but you're absolutely right.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
When you look at all that went into an attraction like Horizons it is even more baffling how they ever let it go away... Actually forcasting a believable future...based on Scientific facts from the time...Developing a storyline the carry the theme...and envisioning what our future could be in a day to day context... That was amazing...
Now it's The Little Mermaid Cliff Notes... And I think you are right...I do not think we will ever see anything on the scale of the original EPCOT Center again...
 

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