Update on monorail Teal and Lime

tigger1968

tigger1968

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
So knowing the history of the buses is hugely different from concerning oneself about the color of the stripe on the monorail trains?
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Not for me it isn't. But then again I am a huge WDW Transportation nerd. I'm interested in all aspects of what moves things around the World. I've loved the Monorails since I was a kid. But as I got older I branched out to the buses and boats as well. :D
 
CDavid

CDavid

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I down played it because none of us knew the extent, but, that wasn't the reason that I down played it really. The reason was because it was a waste of time. It didn't matter how much or how little damage was done to a piece of machinery. The important things were that no one was hurt, that it was after hours and that accidents happen. In the scope of things that are possible it was a non-event. It had almost no impact on the guests and was certainly not something that should have become public or that demanded a public outcry for transparency.
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I see your point, but accidents don't just happen. There's nearly always an identifiable cause which, at some point prior to the incident, could have been avoided. Sometimes a component wasn't designed properly, equipment wasn't correctly maintained, safety protocols were inadequate, or (often) somebody did something wrong. Perhaps a procedure wasn't followed completely or safety rules were violated. Point is, most accidents are not truly accidents - they wouldn't have happened had everything been done properly.

Just because it happened after hours and didn't involve the public doesn't make it any less important. You should always be thankful that an accident didn't involve passengers and nobody was seriously hurt, but mindful that whatever circumstance(s) allowed this "accident" to happen could strike again, only next time it might be a fully loaded train.

Of course, our discussions here accomplish almost nothing towards such goals, but again, its a Disney related topic on a Disney message board. It's what we talk about.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
CDavid said:
I see your point, but accidents don't just happen. There's nearly always an identifiable cause which, at some point prior to the incident, could have been avoided. Sometimes a component wasn't designed properly, equipment wasn't correctly maintained, safety protocols were inadequate, or (often) somebody did something wrong. Perhaps a procedure wasn't followed completely or safety rules were violated. Point is, most accidents are not truly accidents - they wouldn't have happened had everything been done properly.

Just because it happened after hours and didn't involve the public doesn't make it any less important. You should always be thankful that an accident didn't involve passengers and nobody was seriously hurt, but mindful that whatever circumstance(s) allowed this "accident" to happen could strike again, only next time it might be a fully loaded train.

Of course, our discussions here accomplish almost nothing towards such goals, but again, its a Disney related topic on a Disney message board. It's what we talk about.
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I have to disagree. Not about the accident having a cause, because obviously they all do. They don't just sit there not moving and run into each other, but, my point is that what happened does not in any way, shape or form involve any Guest possibilities and therefore are not relevant to anyone other then those directly involved in the incident. It wouldn't be a fully loaded train that time of night and the circumstances are not likely to repeat themselves. So all we needed to know is not to hide away on a parked train overnight and we will never be involved in that accident, ever.

I understand curiosity. I really do, but, it is the same curiosity as having to see what happened when we come upon an accident on the road. We aren't involved, but, we are morbidly curious about what happened. In reality it doesn't matter, because it didn't happen to us. And we certainly cannot expect that because we know what caused it, we are any safer at any other time.

Talking about something and speculating, in context is a normal human reaction to things. It was the outcry that the information be made public that bothered me. Disney is a private company and is not supported, at least directly, by our tax dollars. We pay a fee to be there and enjoy the venue, but, we are not automatically granted the right to or the need to know everything that ever happens that did not involve guests.
 
tigger1968

tigger1968

Well-Known Member
dstrawn9889 said:
or when the station CM had to slam each rear door to lock it into place. clunk, clunk clunk clunk clunk...
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I used to love that sound as it got closer to the car we were in. It meant we were getting closer to being on the move and that much closer to me having my face plastered against the glass. :D
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
but do you have to slam each and every door for it to latch? NO, just the stubborn ones like coral 3... isnt that the one that always has the problems closing completely. coral car three door closest to cab (1) on the port side of motion?
 
CDavid

CDavid

Well-Known Member
Goofyernmost said:
I have to disagree. Not about the accident having a cause, because obviously they all do. They don't just sit there not moving and run into each other, but, my point is that what happened does not in any way, shape or form involve any Guest possibilities and therefore are not relevant to anyone other then those directly involved in the incident. It wouldn't be a fully loaded train that time of night and the circumstances are not likely to repeat themselves. So all we needed to know is not to hide away on a parked train overnight and we will never be involved in that accident, ever.
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How do you know that whatever failure(s) contributed to or directly led to this accident cannot occur during daylight hours when the monorail system is in operation? That would require a level of confirmed detail we aren't likely to learn, no matter how much of a spotlight were shown on the incident.

If I am forgetting something from the previous thread please remind me, but safety systems designed to trigger a penalty brake application and stop a monorail (or tractor) presumably cannot do so if the brakes themselves aren't functioning. The tractors are out and about during the day too, rescuing stalled trains. There are potential cause(s) which could only occur when the system is otherwise shut down, but if brake failure was the cause as reported, the time of day or status of the system wouldn't seem to have any bearing on that.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
CDavid said:
How do you know that whatever failure(s) contributed to or directly led to this accident cannot occur during daylight hours when the monorail system is in operation? That would require a level of confirmed detail we aren't likely to learn, no matter how much of a spotlight were shown on the incident.

If I am forgetting something from the previous thread please remind me, but safety systems designed to trigger a penalty brake application and stop a monorail (or tractor) presumably cannot do so if the brakes themselves aren't functioning. The tractors are out and about during the day too, rescuing stalled trains. There are potential cause(s) which could only occur when the system is otherwise shut down, but if brake failure was the cause as reported, the time of day or status of the system wouldn't seem to have any bearing on that.
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The tractor cannot function with close range automatic breaking systems. Their entire purpose is to get close enough to tow or push. Can't be done if the the brakes are always going on.

Aside from that, even without Disney's openness to detail, common sense would lead us to operator error and that is a risk 24/7 no matter where you are. This is a non-issue. There are no guaranteed safeguards for human error. We are all human, we will all continue to unintentionally error. In a perfect world we can expect everyone and everything to work exactly as planned. Sadly, we are a long way away from being a perfect world.

Many, many vehicles have collided in spectacular fashion with the brakes working perfectly. In my career, I spent a lot of time investigating accidents and to a person, every driver always said that the brakes didn't work. They always were working before and after the accident, but for some reason, not really hard to figure out, they were accused of not working at the time of the accident. But even if they weren't what exactly does that prove? Brake lines can fail without any advance warning. Air brakes automatically lock the wheels when there is a loss of air pressure. It can happen at anytime. Mechanical things don't fail until they fail. Unfortunately, we don't have the ability to see anything except hindsight, our future indicators are a bit cloudy.
 
flynnibus

flynnibus

Premium Member
Goofyernmost said:
Aside from that, even without Disney's openness to detail, common sense would lead us to operator error and that is a risk 24/7 no matter where you are. This is a non-issue. There are no guaranteed safeguards for human error
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This is were "I drove a bus" experience fails you. There are safeguards for human error - it's called PROCESS and layers of protection. You design and follow procedures to build up redundancies so that a simple human error does not lead to an accident. It is your repeated dismissal of an accident as just an accident inside a controlled environment is why you keep disconnecting from everyone else.
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
flynnibus said:
This is were "I drove a bus" experience fails you. There are safeguards for human error - it's called PROCESS and layers of protection. You design and follow procedures to build up redundancies so that a simple human error does not lead to an accident. It is your repeated dismissal of an accident as just an accident inside a controlled environment is why you keep disconnecting from everyone else.
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Layers of protection are usually responsible for creating something that is so bulletproof that it cannot be considered enjoyable. There are way to many layers of stupid that humans can generate to ever be able to completely eliminate it anyway.
 
dstrawn9889

dstrawn9889

Well-Known Member
girls, girls, you are both pretty... can we just let this drop. yes people want answers, yes it was after park close, yes there were no injuries, yes that means no workers comp claims or OSHA involvement. this is just like a wreck between two of your own cars on your own property(that means it is their own business, no one elses) so no report no chatter, no discussion outside of mgmt and HR. Let it GO!, Let it GO!
 
Goofyernmost

Goofyernmost

Well-Known Member
dstrawn9889 said:
girls, girls, you are both pretty... can we just let this drop. yes people want answers, yes it was after park close, yes there were no injuries, yes that means no workers comp claims or OSHA involvement. this is just like a wreck between two of your own cars on your own property(that means it is their own business, no one elses) so no report no chatter, no discussion outside of mgmt and HR. Let it GO!, Let it GO!
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Yes, Mom! Thanks for correcting our terrible indiscretion. Now I need to find someplace to discuss things. Where could that be?
 

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