Union and Disney reach a new contract

[seascape]

this is from http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/disney-world-union-reach-contract-agreement-24620568

Union officials say Walt Disney World has reached a tentative labor agreement with its largest union group that raises starting hourly pay from a little over $8 to $9 this year.

The agreement announced Friday raises starting hourly pay to $9.50 next year and $10 in 2016.

Union members will vote whether to approve the proposed contract on Aug. 1.

The contract covers 21,000 full-time workers at the Florida-based theme park resort, which has around 45,000 full-time and 25,000 part-time employees.

Union officials say the contract freezes employee health care costs in 2015.

Disney World and union officials have been negotiating since March, when the previous contract expired.

 

[roj2323]

We shale see what happens but most cast members who have heard about what's actually in the contract are not happy. I'm trying to hold my judgment until I can read the proposed contract but if what i'm hearing is true I would fully expect an overwhelming No vote come August first.

 

[dstrawn9889]

We shale see what happens but most cast members who have heard about what's actually in the contract are not happy. I'm trying to hold my judgment until I can read the proposed contract but if what i'm hearing is true I would fully expect an overwhelming No vote come August first.

i take it for granite that they shale be skin-flints and besalt the clock to dock the workers time for breaks for limestone and coke around the obsidian countertops....

 

[The Duck]

i take it for granite that they shale be skin-flints and besalt the clock to dock the workers time for breaks for limestone and coke around the obsidian countertops....

Fred and Barney give their approval.

 

[Matt_Black]

i take it for granite that they shale be skin-flints and besalt the clock to dock the workers time for breaks for limestone and coke around the obsidian countertops....

These rock puns leave me stone cold.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

Wouldnt getting someone to read it to you be quicker, even if it doesnt solve your reading issues?

 

[natatomic]

No one has yet been able to explain to me how this affects the pay of CMs who are in roles that start off making slightly more than most roles (for example, merchandise cast members make the minimum, but attractions cast members make something like $.50 more), who also have made slight annual raises, but who still do not make $9.00. Will all roles start at $9 now? Or will the ones that currently have a "premium" (if you will) still have that? And will past raises be added on to that as well?

 

[GoofGoof]

We shale see what happens but most cast members who have heard about what's actually in the contract are not happy. I'm trying to hold my judgment until I can read the proposed contract but if what i'm hearing is true I would fully expect an overwhelming No vote come August first.

I don't know any details, but a bump from $8 to $9 is 12.5% and then roughly 5.5% the next 2 years. Combined with freezing employee health costs it seems on the surface like a pretty fair offer. I think that's better than a lot of people get, but to be fair these people are grossly underpaid to start out so it's more of a make whole to where they should be rather than an increase. There must be some other details in the contract which are detrimental. Maybe a shift to more part time work, decrease in overtime, something else that would make them unhappy and vote no. Any ideas what the issues are?

 

[GoofGoof]

No one has yet been able to explain to me how this affects the pay of CMs who are in roles that start off making slightly more than most roles (for example, merchandise cast members make the minimum, but attractions cast members make something like $.50 more), who also have made slight annual raises, but who still do not make $9.00. Will all roles start at $9 now? Or will the ones that currently have a "premium" (if you will) still have that? And will past raises be added on to that as well?

Good question. I would think it would have to be an increase across the board, but maybe not at the same rate.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

No one has yet been able to explain to me how this affects the pay of CMs who are in roles that start off making slightly more than most roles (for example, merchandise cast members make the minimum, but attractions cast members make something like $.50 more), who also have made slight annual raises, but who still do not make $9.00. Will all roles start at $9 now? Or will the ones that currently have a "premium" (if you will) still have that? And will past raises be added on to that as well?

All premiums are added to whatever the current rate is for the role based on company longevity. If your rate + premium is greater than or equal to $10.00 an hour right now then odds are your base is less than $10 as not many premiums exceed $1.50.

Those individuals who already make more than $10.00 based on longevity alone will only get percentage increases that will get eaten up after the freeze on health care increases is lifted in 2016.

And to be honest, they're not fooling anyone. Disney is just staying ahead of the curve on the inevitable increase to Federal Minimum Wage. They can use this as a bargaining chip to say they're a competitive employer offering a great wage that is much higher than minimum, but come 2016 when we will likely have a much higher minimum wage (likely $10.00 an hour) they will be right on par with it as they currently are. And I highly doubt lightning will strike twice and they will agree to raise the starting wages another $2.00 over the following 2 years.

 

[MichWolv]

Whether people are underpaid or not is a matter of perspective. If you have a view that everybody working full time should make enough to support themselves in a reasonable manner, these folks are underpaid, and will be significantly less underpaid if this contract is approved. If your view is that labor is a service that is worth whatever the market says it's worth, then they aren't underpaid now and won't be if this contract is approved.

With that silliness out of the way, a 25% raise in starting hourly pay over the next 2 years, with half of it coming immediately, puts workers in a much better position than they were previously in. Unless I'm missing something (and of course I may well be missing something), I don't know why this would result in a large scale "no" vote. As much as we hear about unhappy cast members, it does not seem that CMs are quitting at rates that are straining the Company's ability to replace them, so I would suspect that a "no" vote will not cause the company much harm.

I hope BigThunderMatt is right is that we will see a much higher minimum wage in 2016. I believe the country's economy would be stronger if that happened (my view is not at all based on "underpaid" -- see above). But I am not confident it will occur. I have a feeling that the best way forward to higher wages is large contracts like this one or decisions by large non-union employers to "voluntarily" raise wages. In any event, isn't "staying ahead of the curve" better then being pushed along by it.

 

[LAKid53]

All premiums are added to whatever the current rate is for the role based on company longevity. If your rate + premium is greater than or equal to $10.00 an hour right now then odds are your base is less than $10 as not many premiums exceed $1.50.

Those individuals who already make more than $10.00 based on longevity alone will only get percentage increases that will get eaten up after the freeze on health care increases is lifted in 2016.

And to be honest, they're not fooling anyone. Disney is just staying ahead of the curve on the inevitable increase to Federal Minimum Wage. They can use this as a bargaining chip to say they're a competitive employer offering a great wage that is much higher than minimum, but come 2016 when we will likely have a much higher minimum wage (likely $10.00 an hour) they will be right on par with it as they currently are. And I highly doubt lightning will strike twice and they will agree to raise the starting wages another $2.00 over the following 2 years.

Actually, the minimum wage for WDW workers is based on Florida, not federal law. Currently the Florida minimum wage is $7.93/hour with a recalculation ever September, based on the CPI for the previous 12 months. My hat is off to Disney for going above the minimum rate set by Florida law. $9/hour is only $18,720 annual salary, before any taxes and benefits are deducted.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

Actually, the minimum wage for WDW workers is based on Florida, not federal law. Currently the Florida minimum wage is $7.93/hour with a recalculation ever September, based on the CPI for the previous 12 months. My hat is off to Disney for going above the minimum rate set by Florida law. $9/hour is only $18,720 annual salary, before any taxes and benefits are deducted.

Disney is going above the minimum rate set by Florida law...over the next two years. This isn't an instantaneous $1.00 increase for everyone who was below the new base like Universal did this past June. Certain roles at Disney just pay a few cents more than Florida minimum to start, and when 2016 rolls around they will likely be that way again. College Program Cast, REGARDLESS of role, all make exactly minimum wage and yet have the same hours and responsibilities of full time Cast Members performing the exact same roles. And while they may not have medical coming out of their paycheck, the amount that they pay weekly to live in Disney provided housing is equivalent to taxes+medical for a full time Cast Member without the pre-tax benefit for the medical portion. So they're having taxes taken out, then the Full-Time equivalent of taxes+medical being taken out AFTER taxes.

When I made $10.00 an hour at Disney (which equates to $400 a week pre-tax) if I worked a week that included no overtime (read: every week in my role pretty much), I would walk away with $313 per week after taxes, medical ($36 a week) dental ($2.50 a week) and vision ($1.25 a week). That's $87 a week that never once touched my bank account. Annual Pay is great when you say you're making $18,720 a year gross, but since very few people actually retain 100% of their gross yearly income, it's better to look at your net. Which is to say that even if Disney raises it to $10, the reality is that a single individual working 40 hours a week is only REALLY taking home $16,276 a year. That's an absolute pittance compared to the massive profits Disney has made in the last year and considering the demands they place on Cast Members to provide peak performance especially in safety critical roles, the pay is not commensurate to the amount of effort they expect to be put in, nor the degree of loyalty they expect from those they employ.

The only non-salaried individuals who make a decent living at Disney are those that started with the company back when the pay actually kept up with the cost of living and Disney provided free insurance and who have now been there so long they are effectively capped in their roles.

 

[seascape]

I think CM should be paid a bit more but talking about take home pay brings in too many other issues. We all pay too much in taxes. I don't want to discuss that here even though it does have an effect on the parks. I will just say after all taxes I pay I have less than a quarter of my gross pay to live on. And that is not counting sales tax just state federal and city income tax and property taxes and of course the S'S taxes. BTW I am no where near the top 10% in income or wealth. I am not poor and don't mind paying what I do but I don't want to pay more.

 

[JIMINYCR]

My DW keeps saying lets move and work for Dis. I point out the low salary, showing how difficult it would be to justify leaving what I have now to move south. Talking with CM's over the years, I heard many say they are living on their retirement funds/ investment funds and the Disney pay is extra play money or helps supplement savings they have coming in from good paying jobs they retired from. The new worker, young guy with a family would find it harder to live on low pay, even with the lower cost of living in FL. Even with the profit Disney is making, they can only justify a certain base salary for say housekeeping, resort help or attraction workers. Pay always = amt of skill or what the job is worth. Disney will never pay out the majority of their workers very big bucks.

 

[asialeigh]

Disney is going above the minimum rate set by Florida law...over the next two years. This isn't an instantaneous $1.00 increase for everyone who was below the new base like Universal did this past June. Certain roles at Disney just pay a few cents more than Florida minimum to start, and when 2016 rolls around they will likely be that way again. College Program Cast, REGARDLESS of role, all make exactly minimum wage and yet have the same hours and responsibilities of full time Cast Members performing the exact same roles. And while they may not have medical coming out of their paycheck, the amount that they pay weekly to live in Disney provided housing is equivalent to taxes+medical for a full time Cast Member without the pre-tax benefit for the medical portion. So they're having taxes taken out, then the Full-Time equivalent of taxes+medical being taken out AFTER taxes.

When I made $10.00 an hour at Disney (which equates to $400 a week pre-tax) if I worked a week that included no overtime (read: every week in my role pretty much), I would walk away with $313 per week after taxes, medical ($36 a week) dental ($2.50 a week) and vision ($1.25 a week). That's $87 a week that never once touched my bank account. Annual Pay is great when you say you're making $18,720 a year gross, but since very few people actually retain 100% of their gross yearly income, it's better to look at your net. Which is to say that even if Disney raises it to $10, the reality is that a single individual working 40 hours a week is only REALLY taking home $16,276 a year. That's an absolute pittance compared to the massive profits Disney has made in the last year and considering the demands they place on Cast Members to provide peak performance especially in safety critical roles, the pay is not commensurate to the amount of effort they expect to be put in, nor the degree of loyalty they expect from those they employ.

The only non-salaried individuals who make a decent living at Disney are those that started with the company back when the pay actually kept up with the cost of living and Disney provided free insurance and who have now been there so long they are effectively capped in their roles.

This is not true about College Program. Every role gets a different pay depending on the role. Yes it is less than what regular full time cast are getting paid in that said role but they are definitely not just making minimum wage. I definitely got way more than minimum wage in my role as Photopass during my CP.

 

[natatomic]

For what it's worth, yes the pay is low, but my husband and I were able to buy a house on our wages, and we were both full-time hourly employees at the time (he's now a manager, and I'm part-time, so our combined income hasn't really changed at all). And we did this ourselves...no help from our lower-middle class parents.
People can argue all day long what is a livable wage, but my husband and I certainly find it doable. Granted, we always had "dumb" phones, we drive used cars, we don't eat or drink out but a handful of times a month, I cloth diaper our son and make his baby food and buy all his clothes second-hand...yes, we have to be careful and yes, more money WOULD be nice, but to say one cannot live off of our wages would be incredibly dishonest.

I think it boils down to the fact that people have forgotten that you CAN live without iPhones, iPads, brand new cars, 60 inch flat screen TVs, new clothes every month, brand name anything, going drinking multiple nights a week, etc. People keep mistaking luxuries for necessities.

 

[-em]

I'm very curious to read the contract as I'm 95% sure the stuff that to me should be in the contract won't be (mainly centered around RFID use both in costumes,Id etc) and a few other things but I know that for most people voting it'll be all about the money...

-em

 

[BigThunderMatt]

I think it boils down to the fact that people have forgotten that you CAN live without iPhones, iPads, brand new cars, 60 inch flat screen TVs, new clothes every month, brand name anything, going drinking multiple nights a week, etc. People keep mistaking luxuries for necessities.

It's the difference between simply surviving and actually living. Yes, you don't need any of the above to SURVIVE and you certainly can survive on Disney wages but you can't actually enjoy life to the fullest because you are so tied down on just getting by surviving. Everything is always "someday". And that's no way for anyone to truly live.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well said. The thing is, you need a little luxury now and then.