Bairstow
Well-Known Member
This went live today on Cracked: http://www.cracked.com/article_21914_6-hidden-sides-disneyland-only-employees-get-to-see.html
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Trending blog post: "What it's really like working at Walt Disney World"
- Thread starter thelookingglass
- Start date
Tony Perkis
Well-Known Member
I'm so sorry.
FettFan
Well-Known Member
I didn't say he was wrong. I said that his grasp on the English language is on par with that of a drunken monkey smearing its feces on a broken typewriter.
unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
LOL I like the way you put that.
flynnibus
Premium Member
Higher wages simply attract MORE people.. not necessarily better employees. Beyond their meeting their needs, employers who ensure workers who are happy with their job and environment will retain the better employees.. not those simply chasing a dollar amount. If that were true, everyone in WDW should be chasing a trash man's job.
chemicalart
Member
It is true, trash people earn over 150% more then Disney people according to this:
http://work.chron.com/salary-trashman-1716.html
Which leads me to think: Disney gets what they pay for.
jloucks
Well-Known Member
A lot of talk about minimum wage. Many have stated, and I agree, customers drive the economy. People spending drive it. (Or charging on credit cards. Another topic there).
Minimum wage helps the economy minimally. Does not help luxury items at all. Disney is a luxury item. Disney needs X amount to run. Anything over that is Y. Increasing X due to better salaries obviously increases X, but it also increases either the number of people able to afford it or it increases what can be charged for admission. ...which isn't a problem because people can afford more. Increasing minimum wage doesn't hurst mega profit industries. These increases can come out of Y *gasp*. However, minimum wage can hurt any operation without Y. ...or can it? If everybody makes more, everybody can spend more.
So where is the wealth leak? Where is all the wealth going? Where does Y go? Follow the Y.
This convo made me open an account to respond. I really do love Disney tho and have been twice in 30 months.
I would never stand by and watch a CM be abused by a 'customer' without stepping in. Spit on a CM in front of me and watch what happens. Punch one? Lol...I'd for sure get a court date.
Minimum wage helps the economy minimally. Does not help luxury items at all. Disney is a luxury item. Disney needs X amount to run. Anything over that is Y. Increasing X due to better salaries obviously increases X, but it also increases either the number of people able to afford it or it increases what can be charged for admission. ...which isn't a problem because people can afford more. Increasing minimum wage doesn't hurst mega profit industries. These increases can come out of Y *gasp*. However, minimum wage can hurt any operation without Y. ...or can it? If everybody makes more, everybody can spend more.
So where is the wealth leak? Where is all the wealth going? Where does Y go? Follow the Y.
This convo made me open an account to respond. I really do love Disney tho and have been twice in 30 months.
I would never stand by and watch a CM be abused by a 'customer' without stepping in. Spit on a CM in front of me and watch what happens. Punch one? Lol...I'd for sure get a court date.
Large corporations can easily pay entry level workers more, some of them are just plain greedy. Costco has already demonstrated the model of properly investing in their employees versus stock dividends a million times over. The average Costco employee makes around $20 an hour plus benefits. http://www.businessinsider.com/costco-pays-retail-employees-20-an-hour-2014-10
Prior to that, the US auto industry also invested in their assembly line workers with high wages and great benefits. Their philosophy was simple -- they felt strongly that their employees should be able to afford the cars they build.
Auto workers were making upwards of 28 dollars an hour plus benefits and profit sharing. Other industries such retail, hospitality and other facets of manufacturing despised and hated the auto industry model.
Auto industry gets a bad rap, but what happened to the big three in the eighties was not fair. In part, they were crippled by unfair international import and export trade agreements that allowed foreign automakers to compete and sell as many cars as they wanted here in the States. However, the same courtesy was not extended to US automakers -- those countries who were allowed to sell here imposed strict limits on how many US cars (if any) could be sold in their countries. Not to mention, the foreign automakers had the advantage of cheap labor and manufacturing allowing them to build better cars for at cheaper cost -- US automakers couldn't compete.
I not not saying the US auto industry didn't have it's faults but they did pay their employees exceptionally well prior to the market collapse.
Prior to that, the US auto industry also invested in their assembly line workers with high wages and great benefits. Their philosophy was simple -- they felt strongly that their employees should be able to afford the cars they build.
Auto workers were making upwards of 28 dollars an hour plus benefits and profit sharing. Other industries such retail, hospitality and other facets of manufacturing despised and hated the auto industry model.
Auto industry gets a bad rap, but what happened to the big three in the eighties was not fair. In part, they were crippled by unfair international import and export trade agreements that allowed foreign automakers to compete and sell as many cars as they wanted here in the States. However, the same courtesy was not extended to US automakers -- those countries who were allowed to sell here imposed strict limits on how many US cars (if any) could be sold in their countries. Not to mention, the foreign automakers had the advantage of cheap labor and manufacturing allowing them to build better cars for at cheaper cost -- US automakers couldn't compete.
I not not saying the US auto industry didn't have it's faults but they did pay their employees exceptionally well prior to the market collapse.
flynnibus
Premium Member
The US auto industry was driven into that model by the Union and their attempts at making the assembly line worker into a 'skilled labor job' like a welder or other tradesman and not so much about idealism.
The market/labor costs arguments do not address what really sank Detroit... their lack of adaptation and arrogance. They built crap because they were still of the mindset that people would buy american because it was american. Which for the previous two generations rang true... but the younger ones didn't have that same strong brand loyalty and Detriot banked on it. When the world shifted in the 70s... Detroit didn't.
And by the time they wanted to change - they were crippled by those same types of labor agreements you were praising... agreements that forced production to stay in places, units to be made, etc vs being flexible to change.
Fordlover
Active Member
Honestly, the concept of paying a high wage to auto workers was the brainchild of Henry Ford, an adamant opponent to union organized labor. His major reason for paying more than double the generally accepted wage at that time (1910's) was employee retention. He realized how much employee turnover was costing him and he was determined to do something about it. He was successful.
Any other benefits of paying above average wage were secondary, though that shouldn't diminish the added value.
In Houston, workers in the oil equipment manufacturing industry start out above double the minimum wage with zero experience. And this is without union representation, so no dues to pay out of that income either.
The shame is that there are massive hordes of people willing to work at Mcdonnalds or wendys for 7.35 an hour. And many of those aren't high schoolers or college students making a few extra bucks, they are people with a family they should be supporting.
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
It'd be a good start if WDW simply started paying their College Program CMs holiday pay.
Most of the cast members that work Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Year's are college program kids experiencing the triple whammy of spending their first holidays without their families, being given extra long shifts to compensate for the full-time employees that got the day off, and not taking home any more than the $8/hour they earn on a normal day.
If the idea of paying more on a daily basis is too much for Disney to stomach, that would be a great place to start.
Most of the cast members that work Christmas, Thanksgiving, and New Year's are college program kids experiencing the triple whammy of spending their first holidays without their families, being given extra long shifts to compensate for the full-time employees that got the day off, and not taking home any more than the $8/hour they earn on a normal day.
If the idea of paying more on a daily basis is too much for Disney to stomach, that would be a great place to start.
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I've already acknowledged that Detroit automakers and workers are not without fault. But, the industry was crippled, in part, by unfair international trade agreements.
You hold the position that the US auto industry was inflexible to change. But, you glaringly omit the fact that change meant embracing globalization and the outsourcing of American jobs to China. The US automakers wanted to keep jobs here at home and not overseas and they paid the ultimate price for that.
As a result, they could not compete with cheap labor and manufacturing from foreign automakers. For what it's worth, I have nothing against foreign auto makers -- I drive a foreign car.
Thank you! This is a wonderful post. I thought it was Henry Ford but I wasn't sure, so thanks for clarifying that. I took a tour of the Henry Ford Village with my college class and that's where I heard this concept. There were so many viscous mosquitoes in the woods that day, I will never forget that visit, lol.
Anyway, I totally agree with you. The low paying jobs that we are speaking of, were typically filled by teens and retirees -- instead of adults who need to support a family. It's so sad that somewhere along the line job growth became stagnant.
With that said, none of this excuses corporations that make billions in profit each year, while their employees have to subsidize their income with government food stamps, medicaid and section 8. An individual who works full time should be able to pay their own bills with dignity.
flynnibus
Premium Member
If their problem was only competing on price... it would be worth more of a discussion. Yes globalization changed the industry and didn't give them the same advantage as others.. but they already had the biggest market and were bigger than everyone else by miles! Globalization is a real change in the industry, but their collapse was due to their problems in product and quality - and they didn't believe either were broke... that was their arrogance and lack of flexibility. They got passed by.. not undercut on price.
And the Henry Ford story is true.. about paying more/etc to stop the turnover and no-shows... it was driven by a desire for higher efficiency in labor. But that really has little relevance to the topic of labor and Detriot in the 60s, 70s and 80s. The days of company towns and work conditions of the 1880s-1930s were pretty much history in post WWII. We entered the 'fattening' stage and could not adapt when needed.
I_heart_Tigger
Well-Known Member
When did they stop giving holiday pay? Perhaps it was because I was a Cultural Rep rather than on a college program but I got holiday pay in the 90's during my 2 years there.
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
Must have been at least a few years ago. I know I didn't take home any extra pay on any of my holiday paychecks...
What happened to the US automakers, happened in other facets of manufacturing, retail and other industries, too. So, I guess everyone across the board was "arrogant and inflexible" during those good boomer times. I only mentioned the US auto industry to highlight how corporations can pay their entry level workers a decent wage and still be successful, like Costco is today.
The US auto industry paid high wages and shared profits successfully for decades and it's sad to see them and what seems like every other corporation and industry, dumb down wages to Wal-Mart type levels. A decent SUV today costs at least $50,000, but now they are paying their manufacturing workers Wal-mart type wages, it's a travesty.
Thirty years ago, during the 80's and 90's, workers were making close to $30 dollars an hour, with full benefits, retirement and profit sharing. And, today the same workers are making less than half of that with hardly any incentives. Again, it's not just the auto industry, Disney workers should be making at least twice what they make, ideally triple.
flynnibus
Premium Member
I just can't believe you are using an industry that nearly collapsed in the 80s... and then fiscally imploded this decade as the model of how great companies can be and how they should be. The model wasn't sustainable. This has been shown over and over with companies bankrupt'ed by their pension baggage and more. Be it government, manufacturing, or whatever. I'm not saying cheap wages is the answer, but the old ideal couldn't support itself.
The model is sustainable and has been for hundreds of years.
Just this past February, General Motors gave their employees (which amounts to over 48,000 workers), a profit sharing check for $9,000.00 each! And, this is in spite of being plagued with recalls at a loss!!!
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/05/business/gm-reports-2-8-billion-profit-in-2014.html?_r=0
Ford Motor Company, pays their entry level line workers $19.28 per hour. But, Ford found this to be unacceptable so they gave all of their workers a *raise* -- they will now earn $28.50 an hour plus benefits!
Don't tell me it can't be done, when it is being done. You would rather have *taxpayers* subsidize low wage earners with welfare money and government food stamps. I don't understand how you can justify paying for this with your hard earned money, while the children of Walmart bank billion after billion in profits. You may find this to be acceptable, but I do not.
Bravo to Ford, GM, Costco and the other unsung hero's who have taken a stand to invest properly into their people.
Monkee Girl
Well-Known Member
What a great thread to read if you are seriously thinking about working at Disney because it does take a little of the glitter off and allows you to see the reality of working for a theme park. I don't agree with much of what he says but I love reading everyone's comments on the topic. I haven't ready everything yet but had to stop at this post since I agreed so much. This is a hot button topic for me for some reason so sorry if I go on a little long.
The closest to Disney I had ever worked was the Disney Store in my local mall. It was hard work but I had a great time. The managers are strict though; if you follow the rules and do what you are supposed to do, you won't have a problem. I felt this guy had just as much of an entitlement mentality as the guests he complained about. What I loved out of the article was he was cursing at Disney for not putting him in the Mansion 'like promised' (which I claim shenanigans on) THEN when he finally gets placed there, he has nothing but bad things to say about it. So, basically, nothing they put him in was going to make him happy.
As for the pay, I agree with you. He knew how much he would be making when he was hired. Disney makes you sign your entire life away during these proceedings (at least that is what I had to do when I joined the Disney Store). You know fully well of what is expected of you and how much you will be making. He either didn’t care or didn’t pay attention; that’s his problem not Disney’s. I would think that someone who takes a job at a theme park would do research first. Moving costs, living costs and all that. During this time, one would be thinking if they need roommates, a second job, cost cuttings. He says in his first part of the article he had a brand new iPhone. I am sorry but what person thinks they can afford the costs of an iPhone on Disney’s salary? I have a great job but I still use an old fashioned flip phone because I refuse to pay the charges of an iPhone. So right there is a cost cutting measure anyone working at a minimum wage job should be thinking about those things.
In my opinion, as much as I LOVE Disney, I still see working in the park as the same as working at any other theme park, mall job, fast food place. You are not meant to make a living wage/career off of it. It is supposed to help retired folks, high schoolers/college kids get a little extra income or to supplement with something else. If you are looking to make a career at Disney, you need to get a job back stage; meaning the professional end of the company. I know this sounds awful and horrible of me but I really can’t find sympathy for anyone complaining Disney doesn’t pay enough for working in a theme park. Especially when the worker agreed to the salary.
As for the guy with the paper: When was he assigned that paper? Why didn’t he submit it BEFORE going into work? He normally got out at 11 and had to rush to get a paper in at midnight or fail the entire class? Shenanigans again! He must not have been doing to well to begin with if one paper…due at midnight…was going to fail his entire course. Late nights come with the territory at any job and I am sure that was something else explained to any potential cast members. Something in the terms of asking “Are you flexible and able to work additional hours?” I can’t tell you how many times I have had to give up family events and other activities at my job because I was asked to stay, work weekends or extended hours, or be on call for an important job. I had to work Christmas Day one time. It happens, it’s a part of life and not soley Disney’s evil strategy to hate on its employees. You are working in a theme park that caters to customers. If you don’t like it; find another job.
I also sympathize with the cast members regarding rude people. I have witnessed people being so rude to these people in the parks it’s not even funny. Do customers not understand they are only doing their job and can’t just cater to their whim without some sort of authorization? It really does amaze me. But, again, this happens everywhere. Even in my company where I am in customer service. People I work with every day come in and give me attitude and will do what they must to get their way. It has definitely taught me how to handle situations and be a better costumer representative. From how the guy sounds in the way he handles some situations; I would have fired him myself. I don’t care how angry the customer makes you; you do your job and vent about it backstage if you need to.
As with you, I do not mean to defend Disney. I know the company is not all magic, wishes, and pixie dust. Maybe that is why I can’t sympathize with this guy too much. I see the company for what it is and know what it expects. Are there some things within the working area of the park that could be improved? of course. The same could be said in any company you work for. Unfortunately, in the real world, we all don’t always get what we want. But we do have the choice to change where and how we work. Disney wasn’t his thing, as he found out from experience. I hope it helps young aspiring Disney workers to understand that Disney is a place of work and not a place to good around. It can be fun if you make it so but in the end, it is still a job.
Ok, off to read more!
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