Tramway project and security relocation at TTC.

[mm121]

I'm pretty sure the colored part is just a plastic cap covering the steel bollard underneath. Should be pretty easy to repaint/change the color of them in the future.



Pretty sure we're looking at a new load/unload area for the parking trams taking shape. The bollards are very similar to what already exists at the current TTC loading areas. Wouldn't be surprised if something like this is what is being built over time:

View attachment 192303

Looks like a plausable plan, though the screening area may need to be a bit bigger or the unloading area to avoid crowds backing up into the tram pathway

or they just have to be sure to build enough stations to keep the flow moving, built right this could work well making security basically a "walk through" experience if there enough stations to clear each tram before the next tram arrives, or at least pretty close.

that would eliminate the 'crowds as a target' problem

would be curious to know what disney knows that we dont know, other than that sadly the state of the world has changed

as for 15 years now they've basically had the same security checkpoints at the parks after 9-11, and then now after the incidents last summer things have been in hyperdrive security wise at both wdw and disneyland

 

[Chicagoshannon2]

I hope that once the new checkpoints are up and running they will then open back up the fenced in area/entrance to the MK that they fenced in after 9/11. It was so nice before when you could walk straight in to the turnstiles from the ferry boats.

 

[jt04]

That seems to be the end plan. And could start to be seen in the short term.

Good to hear. Should require magic bands for resort guests and APs. Same for rumored gondolas.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'm getting a little confused here. It makes no sense to have security check in on the TTC side of the park. People are getting to MK on shuttle boats, Monorails, buses and ferry's. I thought that was why they did all that extra open space on the MK side where they could funnel people into from the buses and the ferry. It seems like it would be a small adjustment to funnel Monorail riders to the same area thus having less congestion at the turnstiles of MK.

The project at the Tramway station at TTC is just for safe tram movement without confusion. Doubling back like shown in the picture below would make no sense at all. And having security there as well as at MK would be costly and very, very ineffective. My opinion is that it is just a simplification of the tram pathway.

View attachment 192303

 

[ryguy]

I think the concern for Disney has to be not having anything sinister happening at the Magic Kingdom. Just think about what a hit Disney took when the alligator attacked at GF. The PR from an attack inside the MK would be devastating. Something like this would really shake the psyche of people.

 

[Biff215]

I think the concern for Disney has to be not having anything sinister happening at the Magic Kingdom. Just think about what a hit Disney took when the alligator attacked at GF. The PR from an attack inside the MK would be devastating. Something like this would really shake the psyche of people.

Agreed, but inside MK won't necessarily be any safer. This would secure the monorail and ferry, which is crucial for the same reasons you mentioned.

 

[marni1971]

I'm getting a little confused here. It makes no sense to have security check in on the TTC side of the park..

There is a desire it seems to have guests checked before boarding a ferry, monorail or resort boat.

 

[TP2000]

With Disney's hiring practices I would say employees may be the biggest concern security wise.

I've often thought that, for about 15 years now. Disney doesn't even drug test their front-line CM's, much less screen them for terrorist tendencies.

 

[mm121]

I hope that once the new checkpoints are up and running they will then open back up the fenced in area/entrance to the MK that they fenced in after 9/11. It was so nice before when you could walk straight in to the turnstiles from the ferry boats.

not sure what you mean by this.

the front of MK will never be OPEN per say, as there will still need to be a security check for the buses, and the resort boats

however moving ferry and monorail security to the ttc helps to avoid crowding at the entrance

I'm getting a little confused here. It makes no sense to have security check in on the TTC side of the park. People are getting to MK on shuttle boats, Monorails, buses and ferry's. I thought that was why they did all that extra open space on the MK side where they could funnel people into from the buses and the ferry. It seems like it would be a small adjustment to funnel Monorail riders to the same area thus having less congestion at the turnstiles of MK.

The project at the Tramway station at TTC is just for safe tram movement without confusion. Doubling back like shown in the picture below would make no sense at all. And having security there as well as at MK would be costly and very, very ineffective. My opinion is that it is just a simplification of the tram pathway.

it makes total sense to move security from the monorail and ferry to the ttc

the main focus is to eliminate crowding at the entrance, and from a security perspective it allows time for guests to be watched if anything would make it through the checkpoints

and i think they really want to move to where everyone goes through medal detectors but have probably discovered from their testing that there just was no practical way to do that at the current security checkpoints without creating huge backups thus creating secondary targets

 

[Biff215]

I've often thought that, for about 15 years now. Disney doesn't even drug test their front-line CM's, much less screen them for terrorist tendencies.

Also, do they go through security at CM entrances to the parks? I was a CP pre-9/11 so freely walked into the utilidors and everywhere else on property, hopefully that has changed.

 

[Goofyernmost]

There is a desire it seems to have guests checked before boarding a ferry, monorail or resort boat.

Might be, but, if I were to think like a terrorist even if there were going to be 700 virgins waiting for me in heaven, the few that would be affected by blowing up a ferry, monorail or resort boat would not be worth the effort. Perhaps the most likely place would be were hundreds of people are stopped waiting to be check out. No place to run, no place to hide and massive humanity all in one handy spot. That place, of course, would be in the queue for security check. (before the metal detectors)

I understand the need for security and I am glad to see that they are beefing it up, but, if you want to make a real statement, fly a plane into Cinderella Castle. Knock out a symbol of decadence and destroy a theme park along with possibly thousands of guest. In other words, we can not really escape the possibility of harm unless we find a cave someplace and never come out. With my luck, at that point there would be an earthquake and the thing would collapse on top of me. Don't worry, be happy!

 

[marni1971]

Might be, but, if I were to think like a terrorist even if there were going to be 700 virgins waiting for me in heaven, the few that would be affected by blowing up a ferry, monorail or resort boat would not be worth the effort. Perhaps the most likely place would be were hundreds of people are stopped waiting to be check out. No place to run, no place to hide and massive humanity all in one handy spot. That place, of course, would be in the queue for security check. (before the metal detectors)

I understand the need for security and I am glad to see that they are beefing it up, but, if you want to make a real statement, fly a plane into Cinderella Castle. Knock out a symbol of decadence and destroy a theme park along with possibly thousands of guest. In other words, we can not really escape the possibility of harm unless we find a cave someplace and never come out. With my luck, at that point there would be an earthquake and the thing would collapse on top of me. Don't worry, be happy!

Oh absolutely. There's many other ways to do what the lunatics want. I assume a trams worth of guests queuing up is seen as less of a target than a monorail on beam or a ferry docking at the MK.

Or perhaps a park entrance is seen as more of a target. More PR, harder hitting six o' clock news images, more casualties and more disruption. Not a nice topic I know.

 

[Goofyernmost]

not sure what you mean by this.
the front of MK will never be OPEN per say, as there will still need to be a security check for the buses, and the resort boats

however moving ferry and monorail security to the ttc helps to avoid crowding at the entrance

it makes total sense to move security from the monorail and ferry to the ttc

the main focus is to eliminate crowding at the entrance, and from a security perspective it allows time for guests to be watched if anything would make it through the checkpoints

and i think they really want to move to where everyone goes through medal detectors but have probably discovered from their testing that there just was no practical way to do that at the current security checkpoints without creating huge backups thus creating secondary targets

OK, but from a practical standpoint, there is a lot of open space between TTC and MK. There are also others taking other means of transportation to the park. Monorails from the resorts, Boats from the resorts, all the people riding buses. How do they differentiate who was already screened and who wasn't? Do they have to have security checks before every door they pass through? Do they use the corral method that essentially herds people in narrow channels so that the pre-checked can pass through while the not checked have to wait? You cannot cover every square inch of 42 square miles. The best bet is to have one location to check for possible problems, scattering it everywhere would be as useless as a milk pail under a bull. It might look effective from a distance, but, the bucket ain't getting filled up.

As you stated, yes there will be backup unless they do it like Universal and have banks of x-ray and metal detectors. You would be amazed at how fast they move through there and that includes taking everything out of your pockets putting them through the x-rays and retrieving your stuff after you clear it personally. Because of the limited numbers that arrive at any given time, it would server to protect the most highly vulnerable location and that would be the parks. One is actually safer in a large crowd then standing alone in the open.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Expect a new permanent check area to go between the ferry dock and the MK berm, across the recently widened pathway from the bus station.

Which is exactly why I feel it was built. To have a large space, ahead of the park to funnel all comers, from buses, to TTC, to water taxi's. I'm not sure how they do that with the monorail but they could be screened just after they get off the train at the bottom of the ramp or perhaps directed to the security area that would be used by all the others.

 

[marni1971]

Which is exactly why I feel it was built. To have a large space, ahead of the park to funnel all comers, from buses, to TTC, to water taxi's. I'm not sure how they do that with the monorail but they could be screened just after they get off the train at the bottom of the ramp or perhaps directed to the security area that would be used by all the others.

The new area in question is specifically to screen those arriving by bus only.

 

[mm121]

Might be, but, if I were to think like a terrorist even if there were going to be 700 virgins waiting for me in heaven, the few that would be affected by blowing up a ferry, monorail or resort boat would not be worth the effort. Perhaps the most likely place would be were hundreds of people are stopped waiting to be check out. No place to run, no place to hide and massive humanity all in one handy spot. That place, of course, would be in the queue for security check. (before the metal detectors)

I understand the need for security and I am glad to see that they are beefing it up, but, if you want to make a real statement, fly a plane into Cinderella Castle. Knock out a symbol of decadence and destroy a theme park along with possibly thousands of guest. In other words, we can not really escape the possibility of harm unless we find a cave someplace and never come out. With my luck, at that point there would be an earthquake and the thing would collapse on top of me. Don't worry, be happy!

Yes there is always the possibility of crazies doing something like attacking the castle but thats why MK is a no fly zone so hopefully a problem could be identified in advance

and having huge crowds as secondary targets is the exact point of this construction to help eliminate that problem.

and obviously you havent been watching the news, terror is no longer about numbers, its about inciting fear. As a nation we value life and even one life lost to terror is too many, thus even a small attack is tragic. And also devastating to reputation and people fears.

it would be terribly tragic if something bad happened at the "happiest place on earth" hence why they are beefing up security hard core, and in such ways that the changes are permanent.

OK, but from a practical standpoint, there is a lot of open space between TTC and MK. There are also others taking other means of transportation to the park. Monorails from the resorts, Boats from the resorts, all the people riding buses. How do they differentiate who was already screened and who wasn't? Do they have to have security checks before every door they pass through? Do they use the corral method that essentially herds people in narrow channels so that the pre-checked can pass through while the not checked have to wait? You cannot cover every square inch of 42 square miles. The best bet is to have one location to check for possible problems, scattering it everywhere would be as useless as a milk pail under a bull. It might look effective from a distance, but, the bucket ain't getting filled up.

As you stated, yes there will be backup unless they do it like Universal and have banks of x-ray and metal detectors. You would be amazed at how fast they move through there and that includes taking everything out of your pockets putting them through the x-rays and retrieving your stuff after you clear it personally. Because of the limited numbers that arrive at any given time, it would server to protect the most highly vulnerable location and that would be the parks. One is actually safer in a large crowd then standing alone in the open.

separating screened and unscreened guests is part of why this change has taken so long, as its no small matter to re design many many areas of the resort in such a way to make them "secure" without simply putting up big fences and barricades that would make guests feel like they are entering a prison.

and i'm sure disney themselves is still trying to figure it all out

 

[SorcererMC]

You cannot cover every square inch of 42 square miles. The best bet is to have one location to check for possible problems, scattering it everywhere would be as useless as a milk pail under a bull. It might look effective from a distance, but, the bucket ain't getting filled up.

No - having one location increases the burden on security. Multiple checkpoints distributes that burden across the property/arrival chain, expands the controlled area, and allows them to survey threats then rank and prioritize. Moving checkpoints further out also expands the timeframe for catching security threats.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I'll take all your words for it. I am not even close to being a security expert and go strictly by what makes sense to me. Coupled with the fact that I don't even concern myself about stuff like that. I have been around to long to not understand that some of the simplest of things have killed people no matter what alleged precautions we make.

I'm happy that some effort is being put in to cut down on the possibilities and not making it to easy to inflict harm, but, also know that no amount of effort is foolproof. Someone will think of something that we never really imagined or would be impossible to anticipate. Things like hijacking planes and flying them into tall buildings, for example. Everyone that entered the towers that day could have gone through rigorous security checks, it wouldn't have mattered. So, I basically refuse to alter my life to incorporate a fear of something bad happening. I don't have a single problem with being in a line designed to protect us all, but, I am realistic enough to understand that it may not matter.

In my mind it doesn't matter if they have 700 checkpoints for security. As long as they physically exist someone will know where they are and work around it. I, of course, do not want to die for someone elses cause, but, I also know that I may not have a choice in the matter no matter how scared or self-protective I get.

On the third hole of the golf course that I play on regularly there is a tiny brass plague that designates where some guy enjoying life with only the concern about where the ball will land dropped dead while teeing off. We do not get off this planet alive and knowing that I do not intend to spend what I have of it in fear.

The preceding was my outlook on life and not an indication of what or how I think everyone should think. It is, however, how I see it.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I've often thought that, for about 15 years now. Disney doesn't even drug test their front-line CM's, much less screen them for terrorist tendencies.

To compare, drug test (yes/no):
Disney: No
Universal: No
Sea World/Busch Gardens: Yes

Once you reach a certain amount of employees at the front line level, companies give up on drug testing.

Also, do they go through security at CM entrances to the parks? I was a CP pre-9/11 so freely walked into the utilidors and everywhere else on property, hopefully that has changed.

Yes. All parks have their employees go through security.

However, Disney is fairly new to this. They didn't start until as recent as late 2015/early 2016 when there was a bomb threat.

When I worked there from Jan-August 2015, there was no security.

 

[marni1971]

Yes there is always the possibility of crazies doing something like attacking the castle but thats why MK is a no fly zone so hopefully a problem could be identified in advance

The MK and Epcot are no fly zones for privacy and theme reasons. The "security" angle was a way to implement it.

A plane overflying at 3001 ft would be at ground level within seconds. Way before anything could be done.

There again you could have a car wreck tomorrow. Live for the now. When the end comes it'll come.