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ToT in California
- Thread starter Cyberacer
- Start date
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
I don't beleive in Paris anything for TOT has been confirmed, just teasers with the logo.
However it's definately coming to Disney's California Adventure. Contruction has begun behind the Hyperian Theater.
However it's definately coming to Disney's California Adventure. Contruction has begun behind the Hyperian Theater.
Married@WDW
Member
On the contrary, the foundation has been laid and I believe further work will begin shortly on Paris' ToT. I'll see if I can confirm while we're there, but I'm pretty certain there was a press release on the subject as well.
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
That would be very intresting if you could confirm this, because I have read nothing about it being official in Paris.
I know the foundation area you are speaking of, but it has never been confirmed what it will be used for to the best of my knowledge. It's obvioulsy a possiblity and a fan's wish it will be for TOT, but I do not beleive it's been confirmed by any means.
WDS is just barely 2 months old. They will probably evaluate a bit more before confirming the next new attraction.
prberk
Well-Known Member
Tired of copies
I am tired of everything in Florida being copied everywhere else. Walt did not intend to "repeat himself," but it looks like that is all the company can do these days, both in movies and parks.
It used to be that the different locations would mean different things...
A re-dressed ToT is still a repeat, however it was redecorated. Arggggghhhhh.
No wonder Dreamworks (with movies) and Universal (parks) are getting more notice these days.... Disney needs to go back to being innovative and different, not just the "same old - same old."
I am tired of everything in Florida being copied everywhere else. Walt did not intend to "repeat himself," but it looks like that is all the company can do these days, both in movies and parks.
It used to be that the different locations would mean different things...
A re-dressed ToT is still a repeat, however it was redecorated. Arggggghhhhh.
No wonder Dreamworks (with movies) and Universal (parks) are getting more notice these days.... Disney needs to go back to being innovative and different, not just the "same old - same old."
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
Re: Tired of copies
I could not agree with you more, and I've said so in many different threads. It's very sad an attraction intended for Disney MGM Studios, now seems so magically wonderful in DCA (Disney's California Adventure) and rumored for WDS (Walt Disney Studios)
The atrraction was never intended for the California or the Paris resort.
One of the magical things I love from all four resorts (California, Florida, France, and, Japan) are that they all share one Magic Kingdom, but have very different sister parks, none of the non Magic Kingdoms duplicate each other whatsoever.
DLR has Disney's California Adventure
WDW has Epcot, Disney MGM Studios, and Animal Kingdom
DLP has Walt Disney Studios
TDL has DisneySea
Not one duplicate the same idea in any of those parks, but unfortunately the company rushed to turn all it's resorts into mini WDW's so dup attractions are all we get today. I agree it's very sad.
Walt himself refused to do sequals, but 1977's Rescuresr's Down and Under changed that forever, then came the horrible straight to video grabage they do today, starting with Return Of Jafar, and who knows where it will end, Dumbo part 87?
But I suppose it's just a business today and not the dream it started out to be.
Long Live Walt!
I could not agree with you more, and I've said so in many different threads. It's very sad an attraction intended for Disney MGM Studios, now seems so magically wonderful in DCA (Disney's California Adventure) and rumored for WDS (Walt Disney Studios)
The atrraction was never intended for the California or the Paris resort.
One of the magical things I love from all four resorts (California, Florida, France, and, Japan) are that they all share one Magic Kingdom, but have very different sister parks, none of the non Magic Kingdoms duplicate each other whatsoever.
DLR has Disney's California Adventure
WDW has Epcot, Disney MGM Studios, and Animal Kingdom
DLP has Walt Disney Studios
TDL has DisneySea
Not one duplicate the same idea in any of those parks, but unfortunately the company rushed to turn all it's resorts into mini WDW's so dup attractions are all we get today. I agree it's very sad.
Walt himself refused to do sequals, but 1977's Rescuresr's Down and Under changed that forever, then came the horrible straight to video grabage they do today, starting with Return Of Jafar, and who knows where it will end, Dumbo part 87?
But I suppose it's just a business today and not the dream it started out to be.
Long Live Walt!
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
Yes, they were exact copies, that was my point in the post, that MK (Magic Kingdom) created a masterpeice. The rides you mention were all copies created from the original Disneyland.
TOT is from a non Magic Kingdom attraction though.
DCA Fan
New Member
ToT has been confirmed for DCA in a Press Release that had some concept sketches. It will look a bit different than WDW's, and they say that it will have a improved ride system.
Disney Studios Paris will be getting ToT as far as I know. Next to the backlot tour, there's a ornated gate that has the Hollywood Tower Hotel logo on top, so it's very likely.
Disney Studios Paris will be getting ToT as far as I know. Next to the backlot tour, there's a ornated gate that has the Hollywood Tower Hotel logo on top, so it's very likely.
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
LOL, I think that is what we said a few posts ago.
I agree, it's confirmed for DCA, and still just a rumor for Paris! I hope Paris gets it, but it's not a fact yet, as far as I know.
I agree, it's confirmed for DCA, and still just a rumor for Paris! I hope Paris gets it, but it's not a fact yet, as far as I know.
jaylenofan86
New Member
I can't wait for ToT to come to CA!
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
I agree 100% with that point.
Yes, it's great for the guest that does not get to go to other resorts, but that's the whole problem.
Only a fraction of the world is blessed enough to live in a reasonable distance from a Disney park. However since the average person in the world does not, it throws a hole in your theory.
Sure the people who live in a reasonable distance to Anaheim California, Orlando Florida, Paris France, or Tokyo Japan love to hear they are getting an attraction that they have never had the opportunity to experiance. That's the main reason Southern California is estactic about getting TOT, and I don't blame them for that.
But think about it from another perspective. What about the family vacationing from the midwest (just as an example)? When cost is not really a factor whether they choose to vacation in WDW or DLR (we will leave the overseas park out of it for now, but you could apply the same theory to them)
A family living in Kansas really does not have a factor in cost to determine if they will visit California or Florida, since they are both about the same number of miles. What will determine the decesion is what deems to be the better vacation.
So let's see what the family is thinking, now that TOT, Millionaire Play it, Muppet Vision 3D, and It's Tough To Be A Bug, are available at both resorts, those attractions alone do not play into their decesion.
So the real question is what unique attractions will they experiance?
Will they choose Soarin Over California, Grizzly River Rapids, and California Screamin, Indiana Jones and Great Moments With Mr. Lincoln at the Disneyland Resort? Or will they choose Kali River Rapids, Dinosour, Kilomanjaro Safari, Rock N Roller Coaster, The Great Movie Ride, Alien Encounter, Hall Of Presidents, Buzz Lightyear, SpaceShip Earth, Test Track, etc.
The point is, I'm not calling the unique attractions at WDW any better then the ones at DLR. I am a California native, and love what that resort offers, namely Alice In Wonderland, Pinocchio's Daring Adventures, Indiana Jones, Roger Rabbit's Carttoon Spin, and more.
But WDW has just as many special attractions, The Many Adventures of Winnie the Pooh, Body Wars, Living in The Land, etc.
Again, I am not trying to make one attraction that is unique to one resort, any less special then it is to the other, but every attraction the company duplicates, makes one less reason for a guest to visit the resort that had the original attraction.
Guests can visit the magic of Disney's California Adventure, in attractions long at WDW.
Back in 1971, when Walt Disney World opend the Magic Kingdom, they were not trying to offer a different experiance then Disneyland already offerred. It was not until 1982 when Epcot opened, that they attempted to reap the benefits that a 2nd theme park offered a resort. But WDW and DLR are night and day, but every duplicate attraction between them is gradually making that no longer the case.
Since WDW is so much larger, that alone usually sells WDW to the average traveler. Sure DLR hosts the original park (and the ambiance alone makes me treasure it forever), but that does not matter to many people just looking for a vacation.
DLR is supported by it's locals and many annual passholders. While WDW has it's annual passholders, they do not begin to reflect the number of passholders the California resort has. Mainly due to population, not that either is a better place then the other. But the mere fact that Walt built his original park in a very populated area (that continued to grow), and the company built the 2nd park in an area they knew would never become the city that Anaheim, California became, shows the company knew that they were confident they knew how to build a resort destination people would travel to, and did not have to rely on people living nearby.
Hence the reason, with a few exceptions half a state in the USA (Southern California) visit the Disneyland resort, while the other 49 1/2 states in the USA travel to Walt Disney World.
Adding the other foreign resorts into the equation, there is a reason Europe still travels to Walt Disney World, even though they have the Paris resort on their homeland. Even though they just recently opened a 2nd park, the desire the diversity of Walt Disney World, over their park (even though the park performs outstandingly well today)
This was the companies strategy in the 1970's when Walt Disney World was the only real resort, while Disneyland remained one park. Today it's a defferent company, they learned that guests will travel around the world for a quality theme park destination, and they make more money on their hotels, then they do the park admission. It's no wonder over just the last 13 months, Disneyland opend Disney's California Adventure, Tokyo opened DisneySea, and Paris opened Walt Disney Studios.
The chose this strategy, making world class destinations, over the Six Flags strategy of making very close but non special parks.
However in a cost cuting world, they are now convinced that the world will still travel to multiple destinations, even if the different resorts resemble each other. They are trying to get you to spend the night at one resort instead of realizing that the resorts used to be distinct and different, so for that they have to add attractions, and they have to do it at an incredible speed now.
They used to only have one thing in commen, each resort had a Magic Kingdom, and additional park(s). The additional parks had nothing to do with the original Magic Kingdom.
Now they are forced with 3 resorts brand new to the idea of having multiple parks, and so when the public demands more, all they can do is throw out duplicate attractions.
Sure it makes a few happy, like the people in California who have never had the chance to experiance WDW's Tower of Terror, but it also lessens the chance of Californian's to ever make it it to WDW, because after all, Disney's wonderful California Adventure, has most of the same attractions already at WDW for years.
I am not unhappy that Californians will get to enjoy TOT, what I'm unhappy about is they keep telling me to visit this special California Adventure, when I've already been on most of the attractions and they were built without a California theme park even in the back of their minds.
CalDisney
New Member
Re: Tired of copies
Walt started Disneyland , which has the Rides Pirates/Small World
Tiki Room/Jungle Cruise Ect...
Hhmmm....... sounds like the Ride you Have over there Huh??
Walt Did Repeat himself.
So I am Glad They are Putting the ToT here,,
We need more Traffic in DCA
I was there last saturday and it was empty
Unlike Disneyland which was Full.
Well I would have to Disagree with you!!
Walt started Disneyland , which has the Rides Pirates/Small World
Tiki Room/Jungle Cruise Ect...
Hhmmm....... sounds like the Ride you Have over there Huh??
Walt Did Repeat himself.
So I am Glad They are Putting the ToT here,,
We need more Traffic in DCA
I was there last saturday and it was empty
Unlike Disneyland which was Full.
DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
Actally, Walt did not repeat himself, only the Walt Disney Company of today does.
It's true Magic Kingdom was modeled after Disneyland, and therefore contains many duplicate attractions.
But Walt died in 1966, 5 years prior to the Magic Kingdom opening.
Walt's entire idea behind Walt Disney World was not even to be a theme park. Only when Roy Disney covinced Walt that something had to fund the project, did Walt even agree to what was then known as "Disneyland East", however Walt spent the last decade of his life planning for what Epcot would be, a completely different idea then what it turned out to be, which was not even to be a park, but rather a city.
He was done designing theme parks after Disneyland, he was content. He had been there, and done that, it was a good thing, there was no reason to try harder. He focused on the California ski resort (that never came to be), and Cal Arts (which the company did finalize after his passing).
Walt also was begged by critics to do a sequal to the ever so sucessful Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, but Walt refused. His philosphy was once he finished a project, it was done. The first sequal the company ever produced was not until 1990's The Rescuer's Down and Under, which even then was a sequal to a film done 13 years earlier.
The entire idea behind duplicate attractions really comes from Eisner's years, when the entire company took a brand new direction. In the beginning Michael Eisner played the role of Roy Disney, financing the project. He teamed with Frank Wells who played Walt's role.
Unfortunately tragedy struck, and Frank Wells passed away, and a man like him has never been allowed to be in charge again. Not to say there are not brilliant and talented Imaganeers who are out there, but none of them are in charge of the company.
It's very true, that come the 1980's the company started with the idea of duplicate attractions, but even in 1982 there was still only three Disney theme parks; Disneyland, Magic Kingdom, and Epcot. When Epcot was built not one attraction was a duplicate from Disneyland. The idea was always intended that a Magic Kingdom would be the hub of a Disney resort, the same way the Partners statue is the hub of a Magic Kingdom. This strategy remained in 1984 when Disney opened it's third resort, Tokyo Disneyland.
It was not until 1989, when WDW was building it's third park, Disney MGM studios, that WDW got a duplicate attraction from Disneyland that was not in the Magic Kingdom. The attraction was Star Tours. Fortunately for the Studios, Star Tours remains to be the only attraction that was duplicated from Disneyland.
Next came Disneyland Paris in 1992, which again opened a Magic Kingdom. Fast forward to 1998, when WDW opened Animal Kingdom, and again not one duplicate attraction was used. Of course there was a reason for this, WDW was still the only multi park resort. California, Tokyo, and Paris each only had a Magic Kingdom while WDW had four unique parks.
That's really when the problem started. Eisner saw the sucess of a multi park resort, and began expansion plans for California, Paris, and Tokyo.
So in 2001 when Disney's California Adventure opened, they borrowed 2 attractions from Florida, It's Tough To Be A Bug, and Muppet Vision 3-D. Still not a bad ratio, but since the park opened they have added one more (Millionaire play it), and have now announced number 4, TOT.
Last March, when WDS opened in Paris, they opened with two dup attractions, Rock N Roller Coaster, and Catastrophe Canyon (both were first opened at Disney MGM studios)
When DisneySea opened, it duplicated Disney's California Adventure's own Jumpin Jellyfish.
So it's absouely true, that Walt Disney World was the first resort to duplicate rides from another park, but that was the desired strategy of opening new resorts. To have a common park in all known as the Magic Kingdom, since to this day it's the only kind of park that Walt himself designed.
The problem lies when non Magic Kingdom parks try to do the same thing, when the park a ride is duplicatefd from and goes into have a different theme.
For instance, in Animal Kingdom, It's Tough To Be A Bug, revolves around the species of bugs, but somehow they decided Flick and his show also had something to do with California.
In Disney MGM Studios, Rock N Roller Coaster was about being on Sunset Blvd, and you following Aerosmith on a high speed limo to a Hollywood concert, but somehow they decided it fit in Walt Disney Studios.
Millionaire Play it was about a studio show, part of the actual ABC network that Disney MGM studios revolves around today. Somehow they decided in California that it would fit in Disney's Califoria Adventure Hollywood district. Why? It was the closest area that park had to a studio, even though it resembles Hollywood and not New York where the show is actually filmed.
The overall point is that when you duplicate attractions coming from one Magic Kingdom, to another Magic Kingdom, the formula works. The idea behind the rides do not need to be different, because the idea behind the parks are the same. But when you start duplicating rides from one park to another, that have nothing to do with each other, except both being owned by Disney, it starts to resemble a lack of creativity, and a lowering of the bar that Walt would never have approved of.
It's true Magic Kingdom was modeled after Disneyland, and therefore contains many duplicate attractions.
But Walt died in 1966, 5 years prior to the Magic Kingdom opening.
Walt's entire idea behind Walt Disney World was not even to be a theme park. Only when Roy Disney covinced Walt that something had to fund the project, did Walt even agree to what was then known as "Disneyland East", however Walt spent the last decade of his life planning for what Epcot would be, a completely different idea then what it turned out to be, which was not even to be a park, but rather a city.
He was done designing theme parks after Disneyland, he was content. He had been there, and done that, it was a good thing, there was no reason to try harder. He focused on the California ski resort (that never came to be), and Cal Arts (which the company did finalize after his passing).
Walt also was begged by critics to do a sequal to the ever so sucessful Snow White and the Seven Dwarfs, but Walt refused. His philosphy was once he finished a project, it was done. The first sequal the company ever produced was not until 1990's The Rescuer's Down and Under, which even then was a sequal to a film done 13 years earlier.
The entire idea behind duplicate attractions really comes from Eisner's years, when the entire company took a brand new direction. In the beginning Michael Eisner played the role of Roy Disney, financing the project. He teamed with Frank Wells who played Walt's role.
Unfortunately tragedy struck, and Frank Wells passed away, and a man like him has never been allowed to be in charge again. Not to say there are not brilliant and talented Imaganeers who are out there, but none of them are in charge of the company.
It's very true, that come the 1980's the company started with the idea of duplicate attractions, but even in 1982 there was still only three Disney theme parks; Disneyland, Magic Kingdom, and Epcot. When Epcot was built not one attraction was a duplicate from Disneyland. The idea was always intended that a Magic Kingdom would be the hub of a Disney resort, the same way the Partners statue is the hub of a Magic Kingdom. This strategy remained in 1984 when Disney opened it's third resort, Tokyo Disneyland.
It was not until 1989, when WDW was building it's third park, Disney MGM studios, that WDW got a duplicate attraction from Disneyland that was not in the Magic Kingdom. The attraction was Star Tours. Fortunately for the Studios, Star Tours remains to be the only attraction that was duplicated from Disneyland.
Next came Disneyland Paris in 1992, which again opened a Magic Kingdom. Fast forward to 1998, when WDW opened Animal Kingdom, and again not one duplicate attraction was used. Of course there was a reason for this, WDW was still the only multi park resort. California, Tokyo, and Paris each only had a Magic Kingdom while WDW had four unique parks.
That's really when the problem started. Eisner saw the sucess of a multi park resort, and began expansion plans for California, Paris, and Tokyo.
So in 2001 when Disney's California Adventure opened, they borrowed 2 attractions from Florida, It's Tough To Be A Bug, and Muppet Vision 3-D. Still not a bad ratio, but since the park opened they have added one more (Millionaire play it), and have now announced number 4, TOT.
Last March, when WDS opened in Paris, they opened with two dup attractions, Rock N Roller Coaster, and Catastrophe Canyon (both were first opened at Disney MGM studios)
When DisneySea opened, it duplicated Disney's California Adventure's own Jumpin Jellyfish.
So it's absouely true, that Walt Disney World was the first resort to duplicate rides from another park, but that was the desired strategy of opening new resorts. To have a common park in all known as the Magic Kingdom, since to this day it's the only kind of park that Walt himself designed.
The problem lies when non Magic Kingdom parks try to do the same thing, when the park a ride is duplicatefd from and goes into have a different theme.
For instance, in Animal Kingdom, It's Tough To Be A Bug, revolves around the species of bugs, but somehow they decided Flick and his show also had something to do with California.
In Disney MGM Studios, Rock N Roller Coaster was about being on Sunset Blvd, and you following Aerosmith on a high speed limo to a Hollywood concert, but somehow they decided it fit in Walt Disney Studios.
Millionaire Play it was about a studio show, part of the actual ABC network that Disney MGM studios revolves around today. Somehow they decided in California that it would fit in Disney's Califoria Adventure Hollywood district. Why? It was the closest area that park had to a studio, even though it resembles Hollywood and not New York where the show is actually filmed.
The overall point is that when you duplicate attractions coming from one Magic Kingdom, to another Magic Kingdom, the formula works. The idea behind the rides do not need to be different, because the idea behind the parks are the same. But when you start duplicating rides from one park to another, that have nothing to do with each other, except both being owned by Disney, it starts to resemble a lack of creativity, and a lowering of the bar that Walt would never have approved of.
Lhriangel
New Member
I know I should probally stay out of this discussion.. but here is my opinion on the matter.
First of all I have to say that I support TOT at DCA because, even though I personally am scared silly of the ride and it makes me slightly ill, it will draw people into the park and DCA NEEDS that right now. Personally I love DCA. It reminds me a little of Epcot but on a smaller scale.
Themeing wise both TOT and RRC would fit into DCA because they are already themed TO california. (Yes I know RRC is still a rumor but I really want DCA to have some sort of indoor coaster because RRC was great.)
When Disney put Indy into each of their different parks they did it slightly differently. We have the one that is like Dinosaur (only much better cause the TRex in Dinosaur scares me), Paris has the backwards coaster, Tokyo has it themed different (I don't know much about this one but what is the ride systerm like?) and WDW has the stunt show. I agree wth this because they aren't putting the EXACT same ride system and themeing into each park.
They did not follow this example with the 3-d movies... or Who Wants to Be a Millionare though. Personally Tough To Be a Bug and WWTBAM at DCA I can't really understand (and I have bipassed them the times I've been there).
I think they are doing the same thing they did with Indy with TOT. The themeing is different (and the themeing is what makes it Disney) and the ride system is different. I don't have a problem with this. Plus once at DCA they will most likely ride Soaring and Screaming and Grizzly River Rapids (which I am NOT going on again w/out a change of clothes thank you very much) and the park will get more publicity.
Yes new rides/shows should be put into all of the parks and I but with the budget restraints I'm sure are on Imagineering I'm not sure when we will see this. (I'm hopeing the 3rd Theme park in Cali will be all original and am on the edge of my seat until they announce the plans lol).
So I see both sides of the fence but lets wait and see how it is done before completely condone Disney's decision shall we?
(on a side note though I will agree about the sequels. I think the only GOOD one I've seen is Toy Story II and the second live action 101 dalmation movie (but then again I have a thing for Dalmations
) )
First of all I have to say that I support TOT at DCA because, even though I personally am scared silly of the ride and it makes me slightly ill, it will draw people into the park and DCA NEEDS that right now. Personally I love DCA. It reminds me a little of Epcot but on a smaller scale.
Themeing wise both TOT and RRC would fit into DCA because they are already themed TO california. (Yes I know RRC is still a rumor but I really want DCA to have some sort of indoor coaster because RRC was great.)
When Disney put Indy into each of their different parks they did it slightly differently. We have the one that is like Dinosaur (only much better cause the TRex in Dinosaur scares me), Paris has the backwards coaster, Tokyo has it themed different (I don't know much about this one but what is the ride systerm like?) and WDW has the stunt show. I agree wth this because they aren't putting the EXACT same ride system and themeing into each park.
They did not follow this example with the 3-d movies... or Who Wants to Be a Millionare though. Personally Tough To Be a Bug and WWTBAM at DCA I can't really understand (and I have bipassed them the times I've been there).
I think they are doing the same thing they did with Indy with TOT. The themeing is different (and the themeing is what makes it Disney) and the ride system is different. I don't have a problem with this. Plus once at DCA they will most likely ride Soaring and Screaming and Grizzly River Rapids (which I am NOT going on again w/out a change of clothes thank you very much) and the park will get more publicity.
Yes new rides/shows should be put into all of the parks and I but with the budget restraints I'm sure are on Imagineering I'm not sure when we will see this. (I'm hopeing the 3rd Theme park in Cali will be all original and am on the edge of my seat until they announce the plans lol).
So I see both sides of the fence but lets wait and see how it is done before completely condone Disney's decision shall we?
(on a side note though I will agree about the sequels. I think the only GOOD one I've seen is Toy Story II and the second live action 101 dalmation movie (but then again I have a thing for Dalmations
) )DLMAGICDARREN
New Member
Hi Angelique,
Please don't feel the need to stay out of the discussion. It's an open discussion, and we all have our own opinions!
You bring up very good points on Indy. The attraction is very different in California, Florida, and Paris. (I too know very little about the Tokyo version)
If TOT were to be done this way, I also agree it could belong at more then one Disney park! But from all I've read, I do not beleive MGM's TOT and DCA's TOT will be themed nearly as different as the 4 Indy versions worldwide.
I guess time will tell, since TOT is coming to California!
Please don't feel the need to stay out of the discussion. It's an open discussion, and we all have our own opinions!
You bring up very good points on Indy. The attraction is very different in California, Florida, and Paris. (I too know very little about the Tokyo version)
If TOT were to be done this way, I also agree it could belong at more then one Disney park! But from all I've read, I do not beleive MGM's TOT and DCA's TOT will be themed nearly as different as the 4 Indy versions worldwide.
I guess time will tell, since TOT is coming to California!