Toons in EPCOT

[WondersOfLife]

So there's this other thread that was mainly on the topic of BH6 not being in the parks and it just kind of blew up with arguments of not wanting BH6 in EPCOT or any sort of animation... So I thought we should just dump all of the tension in this thread.

I originally had said that BH6 would be a great replacement for Ellen's Energy Adventure with a ride similar to, say, Spider Man, Escape from Gringotts or Transformers ride-style at Universal Studios! There's enough space in that huge building to make two identical tracks, use the pre show room for the queue line, and add an after-show of the ride!

Now if by chance somebody who hasn't seen this movie is wondering through.. One may ask.. "how would this movie/ride fit the theming and purpose of Future World?" Simple! There's a lot of advanced technology work done throughout the film. The character, Hiro, is a robotics genius. He could be working on a new robot (this is during the pre-show) and all of a sudden, it breaks loose and plans on destroying the city. So it's up to the characters to go and try and stop it. Simple.

In the after-show, there may be many different robotics exhibits. Now some may say the movie would work better in Innoventions explaining some advanced technology and whatnot. I believe that it's good enough for its own ride! Introducing a new "robotics" pavilion!


Now, back on topic here.... The real question is, Toons in EPCOT? Yes? or no?

In my personal opinion.. I would say yes, but at a limit. As other posters have said.. Don't "shoehorn" characters into the park where they don't actually belong. For instance: Frozen. Frozen does not belong in the World Showcase. Ratatouille? That would be perfect for World Showcase.

I know that EPCOT's original intentions were not to include movie based attractions at all in the beginning... But I personally believe that times have changed.

1) Disney has trouble getting sponsors for pavilions now. So that has basically died (Except in Innoventions, M:S, TT, and Spaceship Earth.)

2) The average WDW park guest does not want to go to an educational theme park. How many kids want to get out of school to go on vacation and know they're going to an "educational theme park"

3) This goes along with #2... What is Walt Disney World's main focus toward? Families. I've seen people post on these forums about making EPCOT focused more toward adults to keep the theming alive. Nah. That won't work. The majority of adults will be going to Uni. to ride a bunch of thrill rides. I hate to break it to you, but the majority of adults in the world are not Disney obsessed such as the users on these forums.

4) What average park guest would go to Disney World not expecting to see Disney characters?

This is all my own personal view, though. I believe times have changed, and EPCOT probably needs some Disney movies in the parks to keep it alive. Now I'm not saying every single attractions needs to be based on a cartoon. Test Track, Mission: Space, Living with the Land.. Great attractions! I believe EPCOT could use some more of those quality attractions too! But I do believe that films such as BH6 and Inside Out would be a perfect fit in EPCOT to keep it alive.

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

 

[The Empress Lilly]

What are other peoples thoughts on this?

My thoughts? I'll share them. ;P

I originally had said that BH6 would be a great replacement for Ellen's Energy Adventure with a ride similar to, say, Spider Man, Escape from Gringotts or Transformers ride-style at Universal Studios!

2) The average WDW park guest does not want to go to an educational theme park. How many kids want to get out of school to go on vacation and know they're going to an "educational theme park"

Lots of kids and families love to learn. Love to be inspired, dream of bettering the world and bettering themselves. Then the great unwashed discovered our EPCOT paradise only to then want it transformed into princess toontown drunkyland.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How can something be in theme if it was intentionally avoided by the creators?

The "boring" more educational park was more popular than the current park. The entire idea that characters and franchises are needed is one that denies the validity of themed entertainment as its own creative medium.

 

[Disvillain63]

I didn't mind when they added the meet-n-greets with their respective countries...Snow @ Germany; Alice @ UK, etc... I do find it disheartening that they are revamping attractions to fit in popular movies, even if the movie doesn't truly fit with the attraction.

In the early days, when they had the Character Carnivale and the characters road the double-decker bus around WS, then did a brief number at the beginning point of WS, that was nice. However, the characters were in costumes from the various countries. My children were 3 yrs. old and 5 yrs. old then. They enjoyed EPCOT. I think the difference was that I, as their parent, had prepared them for EPCOT. They loved the countries...before KIDCOT.

 

[JIMINYCR]

I am anti-cartoon in Epcot. I prefer EP to remain as intended. There is a lot that can be done to improve the park without filling in attractions with movie/cartoon based themes. I havent seen guests, even guests with young kids being disappointed enough by whats there to abandon the park. Yes, I agree there needs to be more thrill type attractions developed at Disney but new things should follow the integrity of the park.

 

[Texas84]

The original concept of EPCOT is dead. Bring on the toons.

 

[WondersOfLife]

How can something be in theme if it was intentionally avoided by the creators?

The creators of Big Hero 6 and Inside Out are intentionally trying to avoid theming the movie to fit in Future World..?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The creators of Big Hero 6 and Inside Out are intentionally trying to avoid theming the movie to fit in Future World..?

No, the creators of the EPCOT Center intentionally avoided the film characters they had created. You don't think they knew that Ludwig Von Drake was used in educational films? Or that their adapted fairy tales originated in other countries?

 

[WondersOfLife]

No, the creators of the EPCOT Center intentionally avoided the film characters they had created. You don't think they knew that Ludwig Von Drake was used in educational films? Or that their adapted fairy tales originated in other countries?

Ahh okay I see what you're saying. Yes I have read numerous posts that the original creators of EPCOT Center didn't want toons in the park. Which is great for the original purpose it served, which doesn't seem to work anymore, though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ahh okay I see what you're saying. Yes I have read numerous posts that the original creators of EPCOT Center didn't want toons in the park. Which is great for the original purpose it served, which doesn't seem to work anymore, though.

The original purpose worked just fine, and worked better (creatively and financially) than the current state of the park.

 

[FettFan]

I don't mind, as long as they fit. I still have fond memories of "Rainbow Brite" Astronaut Mickey back in the late-80s/early-90s.

EDIT -- And Mission Space Mickey is pretty cool too.

I guess what I'm really trying to say is....characters are fine, even in World Showcase, provided that they fit within the area's theme.
The Three Caballeros exploring the sights and sounds of Mexico?

Sure! It would get kids excited about seeing what Mexico has to offer.


But gutting Norway and installing the fake fantasy world of Arendelle because it's a cash grab? HECK NO.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

The original of purpose of EPCOT Center works perfectly well, the only "problem" is that this purpose requires a continual re-investment of cash to maintain the purpose. And I put "problem" in quotes because it's a manufactured one, the executives from 25-30+ years ago did not see this as a problem but rather a smart investment, a reasonable and fair means to an end. They had the foresight and sense to realize the path to greater rewards and long term health than doing things cheaply and poorly. This core philosophy that both imagineers and executives agreed to adhere to at the time did not factor in that Disney might one day be subject to a pure philosophy of "cut costs and spend as little as possible, and always cater towards the lowest common denominator". That the company would be run by execs who outright hate the company, the parks and its customers, wanting to milk the cash cow dry and cannibalize the parks to leave nothing behind but a rotting corpse being pecked at by vultures.

And that is the sole issue regarding EPCOT's original purpose, in other words there's no issue at all when Disney is managed with the level of creative and quality products that they adhered to until about 20 years ago. The original purpose of EPCOT was and still is perfectly sound. And in these times i'd say it's more important than ever to give people a heartfelt and optimistic look at what the future could bring. But it requires a level of talent and willingness on both the executive and creative level, knowing how the park works and a willingness to invest in quality for bountiful future rewards. So you can either aim for the stars because you have the sense to see it yields amazing results in both the short and long term, or you can give up and admit you're a talentless hack by exploiting low quality crap for the short term (leaving behind one hell of a mess). Anyone in the latter category (as Iger and most execs running the company) has absolutely no business running a company like Disney.

Execs running Disney loathe investing money into the parks (and there aren't any executives left from the old era from Eisner and before who even like the parks). Once Eisner got rid of the old guard, this gave the bean counters power and they decided they needed to "fix" something that was never broken to begin with. EPCOT only started showing serious drops in popularity and attendance when they began to consciously abandon and betrayed its purpose, this first began in the mid-late 90's. 20 years later, we're now standing knee-high in the stink of it all, seeing the results of their exploitative toon overlays and booze festivals being used as crutches to milk more money and avoid investing properly for the future. When you don't keep on the ball about updating something dedicated to celebrating technology and the future, of course the park is going to suffer.

But the thing is, this shift to tooning the place up isn't even helping so far. Mexico and the Nemo ride at the Seas are some of the most avoided rides at the park now. Even Living with the Land is considerably more popular. I was surprised to see that a lot of people (with kids as well) avoid the entrance to the Seas outright in order to skip the ride and just get to the aquarium that still remains, they enter through the exit instead.

 

[Matt_Black]

How can something be in theme if it was intentionally avoided by the creators?

Because times change.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Because times change.

Thanks for the support, btw

I'll probably just be posting my opinion and not responding to negativity from here on. Just let it be. This is the internet.

 

[Matt_Black]

Well, I see a lot of people against toons in Epcot, and the only "real" argument I see is that there shouldn't be any because there weren't any in 1982 when prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Well, I see a lot of people against toons in Epcot, and the only "real" argument I see is that there shouldn't be any because there weren't any in 1982 when prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

That's true. Not really a reasonable argument. I still stand by my opinion. d:

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, I see a lot of people against toons in Epcot, and the only "real" argument I see is that there shouldn't be any because there weren't any in 1982 when prices were reasonable, politicians were noble and children respected their elders.

It's because there is a certain focus and characters just distract from that. People won't be rushing to the new Norway ride, they'll be rushing to the new Frozen ride. They don't go to the Seas Pavilion, they go to the Finding Nemo pavilion. Introducing characters makes it about the characters. Just like when they were added to "it's a small world" and, until it was pointed out in regards to the Disneyland version, the Hong Kong version was advertised as being all about playing hide-and-seek with the characters not seeing children of the world living in peace.

 

[MarkTwain]

There's something to be said about an original creation. No one would want a film studio that produced nothing but sequels to older films, and character-based rides are essentially sequels to animated movies built in physical form. That's especially disappointing for Epcot, a park dedicated to progressive thinking, new ideas, and the power of the human imagination.

 

[WondersOfLife]

Well, even though a majority rules over our argument on this site... We've won in reality.. So.. Yea..

 

[Matt_Black]

Well, even though a majority rules over our argument on this site... We've won in reality.. So.. Yea..

Yeah, I don't think the majority on this board represents the majority of WDW visitors.