The Spirited Back Nine ...

lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
I never said it was unpopular, but yes, the "boring" label was associated with it in many circles long before the Internet was a household word. Lots of families expected and were looking for MK-like experiences.

And that is played out by the fact that it's exactly what another poster just said it has been on it's way to becoming. I know that Epcot nostalgia folks like to think that someone at TDO is rubbing their hands together and thinking up new ways to "ruin" Epcot, but that's not the case - they would not have been spending the last decade or two moving toward a more "MK" experience if it's not what folks wanted.

Now that doesn't mean it was BAD (as I said, I found Epcot fascinating as a kid), or unpopular, or that those folks were justified in their reactions/responses, but to deny that it happened just isn't true.

Personally, I'd much rather have 20 minute dark rides as Epcot used to have, versus the 5-minute experiences they now replace them with.

I'll never get this extreme religious-like reverence that folks have for Epcot above and beyond anything else at WDW - it's like it's some holy thing or some revered dead family member that permeates any discussion about it and quite often the reality vs. the nostalgic, romanticized remembrances of what folks felt it used to be, with WS it's holy land.
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Being unpopular is the internet myth and it's one you're trying to lend credence to by saying the park is changing in response to popular demand. Being less popular means it is not properly responding to popular demand. Even with these changes, the boring label sticks.

EPCOT Center is revered because it actively sought to be more. This has only grown in recent years because even Disney now only considers themed entertainment to be a two bit form of entertainment intended only for the uncultured, ignorant and fearful of others (critiques that have been applied to Disneyland since opening but are not hailed as absolute truths by "more average" fans).
 
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Smiddimizer

Smiddimizer

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
I'm 36, thank you very much. ;) And...well, if you want to know about the virgin part, I'll shoot you the number of the young gentleman who left my house in the early AM hours this morning and you can give him a ring to confirm. Can't remember his name though, but I have the #. :)
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My god....this really is an imagineering thread
_circ.gif
 
5thGenTexan

5thGenTexan

Well-Known Member
spacemt354 said:
I disagree. Theme is of importance in "theme" parks, such as WDW, Uni, DL, etc. What you are referring to are amusement parks such as Six Flags. Two completely different things.

At Six Flags, a cohesive theme is not as important as the rides themselves. At amusement parks, it is icing on the cake that some attractions are themed to fit the surrounding areas. That's because detail and themes are not as important as thrill and fun in those amusement parks.

Why do you think Cars Land, WWoHP, and Diagon Alley have been so popular? Sure, a factor will be the innovative attractions, but another factor most definitely is the detailed surrounding landscape. The average "theme" park guest is not simply looking to go from ride to ride, not caring what is in between. They will care about the theme. In fact just last trip we took family members who had not been down to Florida in some time. The last time they were at DHS was in the 90s (when it was called MGM) I would call them average theme park guests because they don't go down very often and aren't up to date on every new thing in the parks. Even they were commenting on the lack of cohesiveness in DHS. Other than Sunset, they felt the rest of the park was simply a mess and needed to be broken up into lands.

When we took them to Diagon Alley though....completely different story.
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OK, I am going to defend Six Flags, at least what Six Flags used to be. I live and grew up in the Dallas / Fort Worth area with Six Flags Over Texas. The original park built by Angus Wynne in the 1960's. Originally SFOT had six distinctive and defined areas that were representative of each of the six countries that had at one time flown a flag over Texas. The buildings changed as you went from one area to another, the background music changed from one area to another, the uniforms of the employees changed from one area to another, the rides even reflected the country that they were part of. I don't know how the other parks owned by Six Flags are arranged, but I can tell you that a bit of the old SFOT still exists, but much of the old theming has disappeared as things have become more and more corporate. Removal of rides that a family could enjoy together only to be replaced by puke up your guts coasters. But talk to anyone that enjoyed SFOT in the 60's, 70's and 80's and you will hear stories completely different than that of the homogenized Six Flags parks of today.
 
K

kpilcher

Well-Known Member
tirian said:
I'm not saying the original EPCOT Center on opening day as perfect (it wasn't!); I'm saying that many kids enjoyed it when they visited. It might have been 1982, 1991, or 1995.
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The original EPCOT Center was at its peak around 1995. WOM was still open, Horizons was too (and not seasonal), WOL, JII, Irons Spaceship Earth still fit in the original feel. I wish Ellen's Energy Adventure was open then (much more entertaining than the original IMHO except for the Radok screens and a few lost, lamented effects). World Showcase had more acts based on actual culture of the countries represented. And, of course, prices were more reasonable, so I bought more. I'm not saying I wish none of that changed, but it was a great statement of the original vision. There have been many good tweaks/additions/changes in the past 19 years. Hopefully, many more are on the way. But the reason many people here miss old-school EPCOT Center was the whole thing felt like a synthesis. A unified vision. Not nearly perfect. But unified. The old icons helped. But just bringing back icons would be a symbolic ;-) change. Where I hope Epcot goes is in regaining some of the same spirit from the past, while embracing new technology & wonders. The original Innoventions was a good step in that direction. Though that pavilion in particular needs more natural light. While it DID need more thrills, the old EPCOT was many things. Boring was not one of them.
 
TalkingHead

TalkingHead

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Sorry, still really disagree with that notion.

I never found it boring, but all one has to do is look back at the Unofficial Guide's of the time which pointed out that it was best to go to Epcot before MK so kids didn't expect the same kind of entertainment at Epcot and weren't disappointed.

While I loved the long, extensive dark rides - and while some say it's reputation is an "internet myth" - I think saying it wasn't considered such for folks with younger children is revisionist history. ;) Disney didn't start things like the WS Character Bus just a few years in to Epcot because there was no demand.
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I have an easier time believing 10 year olds enjoyed EPCOT than 5 year olds.

Or maybe I'm underestimating how many kindergarteners appreciate the snippet of Boieldieu's Concerto for Harp and Orchestra in the Impressions of France movie. :rolleyes:
 
SirLink

SirLink

Well-Known Member
AEfx said:
Absolutely. The theming in that "land" was most definitely a huge factor in it's success. In that particular case, even the buildings are an "attraction" - as it was a replication of a movie set.

But no one gives a fig how it ties into the "overall theme" of IOA. That land could have been dumped anywhere and it would have had the same impact.

Universal's parks have no central, overlaying "theme", yet they have continued to prosper. Putting another HP land in the Studio park just reenforces that. And in truth, the Disney parks really don't do that either - and never really have. The "central theme" thing folks are going for have always been nebulous at best, and so general that virtually anything could be twisted to be a part of it (Dinosaurs in Future World, for example)...
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Eh?

Universal parks to have an "overall theme" as you put it...
  • Universal Studios - Live the movies
  • Islands of Adventure - Literature.
The wheels are just now coming off the theme in regards to IOA by the inclusion of Kong. Hopefully Jurassic World will have a King Kong ride in that to make its placement in IOA a little more palatable.
 
Tigger1988

Tigger1988

Well-Known Member
kpilcher said:
The original EPCOT Center was at its peak around 1995. WOM was still open, Horizons was too (and not seasonal), WOL, JII, Irons Spaceship Earth still fit in the original feel. I wish Ellen's Energy Adventure was open then (much more entertaining than the original IMHO except for the Radok screens and a few lost, lamented effects). World Showcase had more acts based on actual culture of the countries represented. And, of course, prices were more reasonable, so I bought more. I'm not saying I wish none of that changed, but it was a great statement of the original vision. There have been many good tweaks/additions/changes in the past 19 years. Hopefully, many more are on the way. But the reason many people here miss old-school EPCOT Center was the whole thing felt like a synthesis. A unified vision. Not nearly perfect. But unified. The old icons helped. But just bringing back icons would be a symbolic ;-) change. Where I hope Epcot goes is in regaining some of the same spirit from the past, while embracing new technology & wonders. The original Innoventions was a good step in that direction. Though that pavilion in particular needs more natural light. While it DID need more thrills, the old EPCOT was many things. Boring was not one of them.
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And yet by 1995 it was no longer called EPCOT Center.
 
SJN1279

SJN1279

Well-Known Member
SirLink said:
Eh?

Universal parks to have an "overall theme" as you put it...
  • Universal Studios - Live the movies
  • Islands of Adventure - Literature.
The wheels are just now coming off the theme in regards to IOA by the inclusion of Kong. Hopefully Jurassic World will have a King Kong ride in that to make its placement in IOA a little more palatable.
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Potter at Universal is based more off of the movies than the books, IMHO.
 
ThemeParkJunkee

ThemeParkJunkee

Well-Known Member
Kman101 said:
LOL, all he did was say it was based off the movies and not the books. Wow. Yes, the movies were based off the books and the fans would expect the areas to be out of the movies.
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There is so much more detail in the books than the movies could convey. The Harry Potter areas of the two Universal parks includes much of the book detail that was not portrayed in the movies. The areas did need to re-create much of the movie set look because most readers have also seen the movies. Their mind's eye now has certain expections as to what Hogwarts and Gringotts looks like. I really enjoyed the small theming details of the "lands". Even if they were not part of the movies, they were consistent with the literature.
 

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