The Spirited 8th Wonder (WDW's Future & You!)

[Cesar R M]

You obviously haven't been to Tokyo Disneyland then!

Most people go to Japan for a couple of weeks, and that's plenty of time to spend 2 or 3 Disney days without short-changing the rest of the culture and sights that Tokyo has to offer.

Paris is different, as most people just go for a couple of days, the parks aren't much different to the USA ones, and Disney is very much not a French thing, but that's not the case in Japan. The Japanese love theme parks, Disney, and do things wildly differently and it's a cultural experience in itself.

If you love theme parks and Disney then the memories you will take away from Tokyo Disneyland will be just as strong as those of the ryokan, sushi bars or sumo wrestling.

You're really making me want to play a trip to tokyo in the next 5 years.. I curse yeeh! (and my wallet will suffer lol)

 

[GoofGoof]

OK by me. Irony --- exactly.. I was thinking you guys had no sense of humor.

Back to the topic at hand. I tend to agree with what you are complaining about. There is no question that to us old timers there is less offered for more of our dollars. You would have to be deaf, dumb and blind not to be aware of it. We wolud like to hold Disney to a higher standard than other corporations who are busily doing the same thing in the way of less product for an increasing cost.

In other places, in almost any price range, there are better deals for nicer and more spacious accommodations for both hotels and time shares. A decent meal can cost a lot less somewhere else, as well. Fine dining, where available, will always cost an arm and a leg. To be fair, some vacation destinations cost just as much or even more than Disney.

Disney has always known how to squeeze the last penny out of its customers. My husband and I have laughed about this for years. However, there is no other place on earth quite like Walt Disney World and staying on property. I, for one, am not yet ready to concede that it is going to heck in a hand cart and prefer to take the long view that nothing in life is certain.

I'm with you on this. I'm not blind to the issues, but it's still a very special place for me and my family. None of the issues are bad enough for me to stop going. Experiencing it with my kids adds to the appeal as well. Seeing the parks through their eyes helps me get past any issues that do exist. I have some hope that the parts of the parks which need it the most will eventually get the love they need. With Disney everything just takes time. They finally got around to fixing Splash Mountain after years of neglect so why not EPCOT or DHS next.

I think it's a shame that the prices are starting to push more and more families out altogether or at least off property. IMHO you do miss out on something staying off property but is the premium price worth the benefit? If I was working from a budget the on property room is probably the first thing I would cut because you can save so much by staying off property. We bought into DVC as a way to lock in cheaper deluxe rooms, but DVC doesn't work for a lot of people.

 

[R W B]

I just don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about staying off property and eating off property. I've stayed off property and in a DTD hotel once each and they were each for a 3 day weekend trip. Every full length week long trip I've taken I've stayed at a Disney resort and couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm there to visit WDW, I don't want to deal with the everyday headaches as traffic for starters. If that means I lose a few minutes in the parks because I'm waiting for a bus/boat to bring me somewhere, so be it. I have a hard time believing off property guests who drive to MK make it inside faster then someone staying at a resort. I've driven to MK once on a weekend trip and I'm good on that again, no thank you. Ill wait on a bus. Only time I've eaten off property was around 3am and my fiancé and were hanging with a CM we new and we went and grabbed a bite after she got off work, that's it.

I understand you can spend less money by staying/eating off property but to me, it's not a full trip in that case. I'd rather wait a little while longer and save up enough to stay at a resort on property. Same thing with eating, I live in New Orleans, theirs very few places in the country I can go and have the food on par or better then the restaurants here but that doesn't mean I don't like to try new things. I couldn't wait to try the beignets from POFQ although I new going in they were not nearly as good as here at home. The way I see it is that until I've tried all the sit down restaurants on property theirs no need for me to go off-site for food and even then menus changes every so often.

This is just my personal opinion on things. Not saying its right or wrong for anyone else.

 

[Cesar R M]

I just don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about staying off property and eating off property. I've stayed off property and in a DTD hotel once each and they were each for a 3 day weekend trip. Every full length week long trip I've taken I've stayed at a Disney resort and couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm there to visit WDW, I don't want to deal with the everyday headaches as traffic for starters. If that means I lose a few minutes in the parks because I'm waiting for a bus/boat to bring me somewhere, so be it. I have a hard time believing off property guests who drive to MK make it inside faster then someone staying at a resort. I've driven to MK once on a weekend trip and I'm good on that again, no thank you. Ill wait on a bus. Only time I've eaten off property was around 3am and my fiancé and were hanging with a CM we new and we went and grabbed a bite after she got off work, that's it.

I understand you can spend less money by staying/eating off property but to me, it's not a full trip in that case. I'd rather wait a little while longer and save up enough to stay at a resort on property. Same thing with eating, I live in New Orleans, theirs very few places in the country I can go and have the food on par or better then the restaurants here but that doesn't mean I don't like to try new things. I couldn't wait to try the beignets from POFQ although I new going in they were not nearly as good as here at home. The way I see it is that until I've tried all the sit down restaurants on property theirs no need for me to go off-site for food and even then menus changes every so often.

This is just my personal opinion on things. Not saying its right or wrong for anyone else.

Its honestly pretty simple.. They expect the disney logo, the disney cast members, the disney service (concierge) and the theming of the hotels.

 

[Nubs70]

I just don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about staying off property and eating off property. I've stayed off property and in a DTD hotel once each and they were each for a 3 day weekend trip. Every full length week long trip I've taken I've stayed at a Disney resort and couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm there to visit WDW, I don't want to deal with the everyday headaches as traffic for starters. If that means I lose a few minutes in the parks because I'm waiting for a bus/boat to bring me somewhere, so be it. I have a hard time believing off property guests who drive to MK make it inside faster then someone staying at a resort. I've driven to MK once on a weekend trip and I'm good on that again, no thank you. Ill wait on a bus. Only time I've eaten off property was around 3am and my fiancé and were hanging with a CM we new and we went and grabbed a bite after she got off work, that's it.

I understand you can spend less money by staying/eating off property but to me, it's not a full trip in that case. I'd rather wait a little while longer and save up enough to stay at a resort on property. Same thing with eating, I live in New Orleans, theirs very few places in the country I can go and have the food on par or better then the restaurants here but that doesn't mean I don't like to try new things. I couldn't wait to try the beignets from POFQ although I new going in they were not nearly as good as here at home. The way I see it is that until I've tried all the sit down restaurants on property theirs no need for me to go off-site for food and even then menus changes every so often.

This is just my personal opinion on things. Not saying its right or wrong for anyone else.

I you feel it is a value that satisfies your needs, you have made the right decision.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I just don't understand why everyone makes a big deal about staying off property and eating off property. I've stayed off property and in a DTD hotel once each and they were each for a 3 day weekend trip. Every full length week long trip I've taken I've stayed at a Disney resort and couldn't imagine not doing it. I'm there to visit WDW, I don't want to deal with the everyday headaches as traffic for starters. If that means I lose a few minutes in the parks because I'm waiting for a bus/boat to bring me somewhere, so be it. I have a hard time believing off property guests who drive to MK make it inside faster then someone staying at a resort. I've driven to MK once on a weekend trip and I'm good on that again, no thank you. Ill wait on a bus. Only time I've eaten off property was around 3am and my fiancé and were hanging with a CM we new and we went and grabbed a bite after she got off work, that's it.

I understand you can spend less money by staying/eating off property but to me, it's not a full trip in that case. I'd rather wait a little while longer and save up enough to stay at a resort on property. Same thing with eating, I live in New Orleans, theirs very few places in the country I can go and have the food on par or better then the restaurants here but that doesn't mean I don't like to try new things. I couldn't wait to try the beignets from POFQ although I new going in they were not nearly as good as here at home. The way I see it is that until I've tried all the sit down restaurants on property theirs no need for me to go off-site for food and even then menus changes every so often.

This is just my personal opinion on things. Not saying its right or wrong for anyone else.

It's not a big deal really. It is a personal decision. Staying onsite in order to "capture" the magic is just another fantasy idea that the marketing department has managed to spin to the point that people honestly do feel that way.

I, personally, have other reasons. One large one is the cost. I can save a boatload of money, stay in better accommodations for way less, I'm talking way less here, then staying onsite. I have never bought into the idea of being submersed in it. Having done both, I find that I use the rooms to sleep (not much magic to be seen with ones eyes closed) and shower. Pool? Every hotel has one of those, no big deal.

Another factor to me is that I do not like being held captive. I want choices, easy choices that are no longer available onsite. You can eat onsite in any establishment as long as it still has a table for you, otherwise you take what is available. Offsite, any damn place my cravings for the day take me and as a bonus, for a lot less money.

Yet, another is that if you chose an accommodation close to the entrance of WDW it takes no time to get onsite and to the park of your choice. Traffic can be a problem if you pick a place over 3 miles away, but, not the case close by. In fact, I have found alternate entrances that have no traffic at all. I might miss the big old "Welcome to Walt Disney World", but that isn't what I came to see anyway. Once per trip works just fine for me. Due to the fact that I have occasionally met people there for a group outing, I found that I can get to my car at the end of the day, drive back to my hotel and be there, in my room stretched out before my friends even boarded a bus back to their onsite location. (I was curious so I called to get their status) They were not happy. One other plus is that offsite TV has at least 4, if not more, times the channel choices than are available onsite.

Still one more is that although WDW is my primary target, I do not spend my entire time in a park. I like to see other things, I like being able to jump in a car, be it my own or a rental, and just look around to see what Florida has to offer. I did the same thing when I visited DLR.

My enjoyment comes from the parks. Hotels you can find anywhere (maybe not with 3 story tall bowling pins), but, they all have there own special perks, however, I don't go for the hotels, or the restaurants. The food price, onsite, ruins my appetite no matter how good the food might be, and that is also a matter of individual judgment. Personally, I just feel that I have a far better overall experience offsite and more options. Just about any thing that is available onsite is also offsite, tenfold.

The absolute only thing that I miss is when riding the bus back from MK one time I answered the majority of the Disney trivia questions the driver asked. Got me a ton of Mickey Stickers that I still have somewhere, I'm sure. Haven't seen them for awhile now, but, I'm sure they must still be around. Unless....????

 

[GrammieBee]

As some have pointed out, there is no right or wrong way to visit WDW. Whether you buy DVC points or not, whether you stay on property or not, where you eat, if you stay in a deluxe resort or a value resort is all a matter of personal desires, wants and budget. The only problem to arise is when someone decides that their way is the RIGHT way to do things and anyone who does not agree with them is stupid (and I have seen that word used) or WRONG.

Enjoy spending your time at WDW your way!

 

[Beholder]

As some have pointed out, there is no right or wrong way to visit WDW. Whether you buy DVC points or not, whether you stay on property or not, where you eat, if you stay in a deluxe resort or a value resort is all a matter of personal desires, wants and budget. The only problem to arise is when someone decides that their way is the RIGHT way to do things and anyone who does not agree with them is stupid (and I have seen that word used) or WRONG.

Enjoy spending your time at WDW your way!

Great point! There really isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to visit. There're certainly more and less expensive ways to visit, but if it makes you happy, then great! Happiness is hard enough to find for a lot of people, so the more happy people the better.

 

[The Mom]

Could we please keep this on topic, rather than wandering off into a trip planning discussion? Thank you.

 

[misterID]

All we have beyond theme parks are beaches (some great to be fair), outlet malls, strip centers, roads in constant states of construction and Indian casinos. Bars and chain restaurants too. Add in bugs the size of VW bugs and gators and other critters ... oh, and backwards voters and politicos ... and, great college football ... and that about covers it.

I still don't get what is so appealing and I'm almost a native.

St. Augustine and Key West can be attractions in themselves. But yeah, Disney is the big reason to go... and Universal now too!

And I can honestly say my best vacation was staying off site. I'm actually going next week and will be staying off site again. Better rooms, more freedom to do what I want... And I get a snarky little smile driving by all those miserable faces staring at me from those Disney bus windows.

There's not a wrong answer here. For some people staying at a Disney resort is part of the experience. It might be that growing up in central Florida and going to Disney a lot, along with staying at every resort, kind of removes some of the "magic", for lack of a better word, from my feelings about it. I see it in much starker and cynical terms. If you're willing to pay the price then it's all good. Saying that, I can't shake the disappointment about what they're charging for what they're giving. I think if more people bit the bullet and tried staying off site, they would see things much differently, and with more money to spend, might have a better time. The time from leaving the park to get to my villa isn't long at all, and was faster, depending on where you stay, than getting back to my last onsite room. If you're feeling like you want to try staying off site, do it. Your vacation wont lose a thing. If you're too loyal, stick to your guns... and your wallet.

 

[Nemo14]

St. Augustine and Key West can be attractions in themselves. But yeah, Disney is the big reason to go... and Universal now too!

And I can honestly say my best vacation was staying off site. I'm actually going next week and will be staying off site again. Better rooms, more freedom to do what I want... And I get a snarky little smile driving by all those miserable faces staring at me from those Disney bus windows.

There's not a wrong answer here. For some people staying at a Disney resort is part of the experience. It might be that growing up in central Florida and going to Disney a lot, along with staying at every resort, kind of removes some of the "magic", for lack of a better word, from my feelings about it. I see it in much starker and cynical terms. If you're willing to pay the price then it's all good. Saying that, I can't shake the disappointment about what they're charging for what they're giving. I think if more people bit the bullet and tried staying off site, they would see things much differently, and with more money to spend, might have a better time. The time from leaving the park to get to my villa isn't long at all, and was faster, depending on where you stay, than getting back to my last onsite room. If you're feeling like you want to try staying off site, do it. Your vacation wont lose a thing. If you're too loyal, stick to your guns... and your wallet.

Florida has some of the neatest state parks too. We've been to several and have yet to be disappointed.

 

[JimboJones123]

[QUOTmo14, post: 6299180, member: 19842"]Florida has some of the neatest state parks too. We've been to several and have yet to be disappointed.[/QUOTE]
Like which, and why?

 

[Nemo14]

[QUOTmo14, post: 6299180, member: 19842"]Florida has some of the neatest state parks too. We've been to several and have yet to be disappointed.

Like which, and why?[/QUOTE]
Blue Springs, DeLeon Springs, Myakka River, Wekiwa Springs, Hontoon Island, Weeki Wachee Springs, Gasparilla Island come to mind, all for different reasons. Wildlife and canoeing opportunities come to mind immediately - DeLeon Springs has a really fun restaurant where you cook your own pancakes at your table, Gasparilla beaches are amazing. It's just a whole part of Florida that is just so neat to explore. And no fastpasses or magic bands needed!

 

[Lucky]

Blue Springs, DeLeon Springs, Myakka River, Wekiwa Springs, Hontoon Island, Weeki Wachee Springs, Gasparilla Island come to mind, all for different reasons. Wildlife and canoeing opportunities come to mind immediately - DeLeon Springs has a really fun restaurant where you cook your own pancakes at your table, Gasparilla beaches are amazing. It's just a whole part of Florida that is just so neat to explore. And no fastpasses or magic bands needed!

We did this a long time ago - nice to know it's still there.

 

[Nemo14]

We did this a long time ago - nice to know it's still there.

Still there!

 

[pixargal]

Like which, and why?

Blue Springs, DeLeon Springs, Myakka River, Wekiwa Springs, Hontoon Island, Weeki Wachee Springs, Gasparilla Island come to mind, all for different reasons. Wildlife and canoeing opportunities come to mind immediately - DeLeon Springs has a really fun restaurant where you cook your own pancakes at your table, Gasparilla beaches are amazing. It's just a whole part of Florida that is just so neat to explore. And no fastpasses or magic bands needed![/QUOTE]
Also wanted to mention, John Pennekamp Coral Reef State Park. Truly a Florida treasure.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Florida has some of the neatest state parks too. We've been to several and have yet to be disappointed.

Like which, and why?

Blue Springs, DeLeon Springs, Myakka River, Wekiwa Springs, Hontoon Island, Weeki Wachee Springs, Gasparilla Island come to mind, all for different reasons. Wildlife and canoeing opportunities come to mind immediately - DeLeon Springs has a really fun restaurant where you cook your own pancakes at your table, Gasparilla beaches are amazing. It's just a whole part of Florida that is just so neat to explore. And no fastpasses or magic bands needed!

Blue Springs, DeLeon Springs, Myakka River, Wekiwa Springs, Hontoon Island, Weeki Wachee Springs, Gasparilla Island come to mind, all for different reasons. Wildlife and canoeing opportunities come to mind immediately - DeLeon Springs has a really fun restaurant where you cook your own pancakes at your table, Gasparilla beaches are amazing. It's just a whole part of Florida that is just so neat to explore. And no fastpasses or magic bands needed!

Also wanted to mention, John Pennekamp Coral Reef State Park. Truly a Florida treasure.

What? Are you saying that Florida isn't confined to a couple of theme parks. Get serious, there's nothing outside of plastic robots to see there. That's almost sacrilegious.

 

[Nemo14]

What? Are you saying that Florida isn't confined to a couple of theme parks. Get serious, there's nothing outside of plastic robots to see there. That's almost sacrilegious.

Funny story since you mentioned plastic robots. We were out at Blue Springs in the middle of February this year checking out the manatees and we noticed a rather large gator on the shore across from us. All of a sudden we saw him raise his head nearly vertical and let out a loud bone-chilling roar. I had never heard anything like it and for a brief moment we were all just stunned. Then some jerk standing beind us told his wife that it wasn't real - that they put that in the water just to scare people. I sure hope he never encounters one in the wild...

 

[ParentsOf4]

There is truth to the "DVC members locked in" myth. It's just not true for DVC member = turnstyle spin perspective.

While the Mouse would certainly be happy if all DVC members visited their theme parks, the truth is that once you sign your soul to the DVC contract - you've provided TDO what they want: your money upfront and your commitment for future money as stipulated by the contract. Other than making sure the resort doesn't burn to the ground or completely falls apart, they have no incentive to do anything more to get the terms of the contract fulfilled.

I'm replying to your post here because you bring up some interesting points about DVC but I'm going to have to veer completely off the topic of the other thread ("FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania") in order to discuss them, which I am glad to discuss on this thread, which is about DVC.

I respectfully suggest you look at DVC from a cash flow perspective. Look at it from Disney's perspective.

To Disney, it does not matter what someone paid for a DVC membership back in (for example) 2008. That money is gone. Disney spent that cash long ago; for construction & maintenance, to pay Cast Members, for executive bonuses, as stock dividends, or as stock repurchases. (This year alone, Disney spent over $6 billion buying back its own stock.) Those managing WDW in 2014 don't give a hoot about cash flow in 2008.

They care about cash flow in 2014.

In 2014, someone who is a DVC member at Bay Lake Tower (BLT) paid $4.78/point in Maintenance Fees (MF).

In the summer of 2014, it took 139 points to rent a Bay Lake Tower standard view Studio. In 2014, someone who is a DVC member at BLT paid $94.92/night to stay within walking distance of the Magic Kingdom.

Disney was counting on that family to buy theme park tickets, dine at WDW restaurants, and purchase WDW souvenirs.

However, after visiting WDW for 6 years and seeing how little has changed at the theme parks, they've become bored. Ticket prices are up an average of 25% since 2008 and, frankly, they just don't see the value anymore.

Meanwhile, Universal has been adding a ton of attractions since 2008. A 4-day Uni ticket costs $156 while a 4-day WDW ticket costs $294. Why not give Uni a try?

If that DVC member decides they want to skip Orlando this year, then they rent their DVC points through David's DVC Rentals and make a tidy profit. David's is just begging DVC members for points. David's rents these out at $14/point, meaning a non-DVC member can either pay Disney's $583/night rack rate to stay in a Tower Room at the Contemporary, or pay David's $278/night to stay at Bay Lake Tower.

And you wonder why David's is begging for more points to rent.

Rather than pay WDW $4081 (7 X $583) for a week's stay at the Contemporary, that same family pays David's $1946 (7 X $278).

Disney's cut of this? The exact same $664 (7 X $94.92) they would have gotten from that DVC member, had that DVC member even bothered to visit WDW.

Disney just lost $3417 ($4081 - $664) in revenue (which happens to be almost pure profit, by the way) because of that DVC member who supposedly is "locked in".

That's the problem Disney is facing today.

These DVC members most definitely are not "locked in".

And Disney most definitely has a problem.

Disney is offering that DVC member a $199 4-day ticket this year not only to get that DVC member back into the theme parks, but to stop them from renting out their points and costing Disney $3417.

 

[Mike S]

I'm replying to your post here because you bring up some interesting points about DVC but I'm going to have to veer completely off the topic of the other thread ("FP+ only Toy Story Midway Mania") in order to discuss them, which I am glad to discuss on this thread, which is about DVC.

I respectfully suggest you look at DVC from a cash flow perspective. Look at it from Disney's perspective.

To Disney, it does not matter what someone paid for a DVC membership back in (for example) 2008. That money is gone. Disney spent that cash long ago; for construction & maintenance, to pay Cast Members, for executive bonuses, as stock dividends, or as stock repurchases. (This year alone, Disney spent over $6 billion buying back its own stock.) Those managing WDW in 2014 don't give a hoot about cash flow in 2008.

They care about cash flow in 2014.

In 2014, someone who is a DVC member at Bay Lake Tower (BLT) paid $4.78/point in Maintenance Fees (MF).

In the summer of 2014, it took 139 points to rent a Bay Lake Tower standard view Studio. Someone who is a DVC member at BLT paid $94.92/night in 2014 to stay within walking distance of the Magic Kingdom.

Disney was counting on that family to buy theme park tickets, dine at WDW restaurants, and purchase WDW souvenirs.

However, after visiting WDW for 6 years and seeing how little has changed at the theme parks, they've become bored. Ticket prices are up an average of 25% since 2008 and, frankly, they just don't see the value anymore.

Meanwhile, Universal has been adding a ton of attractions since 2008. A 4-day Uni ticket costs $156 while a 4-day WDW ticket costs $294. Why not give Uni a try?

If that DVC member decides they want to skip Orlando this year, then they rent their DVC points through David's DVC Rentals and make a tidy profit. David's is just begging DVC members for points. David's rents these out at $14/point, meaning a non-DVC member can either pay Disney's $583/night rack rate to stay in a Tower Room at the Contemporary, or pay David's $278/night to stay at Bay Lake Tower.

And you wonder why David's is begging for more points to rent.

Rather than pay WDW $4081 for a week's stay at the Contemporary, that same family pays David's $1946.

Disney's cut of this? The exact same $664 they would have gotten from that DVC member, had that DVC member even bothered to visit WDW.

Disney just lost $3417 ($4081 - $664) in revenue (which happens to be almost pure profit, by the way) because of that DVC member who supposedly is "locked in".

That's the problem Disney is facing today.

These DVC members most definitely are not "locked in".

And Disney most definitely has a problem.

Disney is offering that DVC member a $199 4-day ticket this year not only to get that DVC member back into the theme parks, but to stop them from renting out their points and costing Disney $3417.

Great way to bring this thread back from the dead