1. Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
    Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.You can use your Twitter or Facebook account to sign up, or register directly.
    Dismiss Notice

Terror Attacks

Discussion in 'Politics and Social Issues' started by Princess Leia, Mar 22, 2017.

  1. SorcererMC

    SorcererMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    These statements reflect common misconceptions about terrorism. It is not defined according to the demographic status of the victim (or attacker), nor the level of violence; the motivation of an attacker must be taken into account.

    Here is the legal definition of terrorism, under US Law: Title 22 of the U.S. Code, Section 2656f(d) defines terrorism as “premeditated, politically motivated violence perpetrated against noncombatant targets by subnational groups or clandestine agents, usually intended to influence an audience.” (See also 18 USC 2331) http://codes.findlaw.com/us/title-18-crimes-and-criminal-procedure/18-usc-sect-2331.html,

    By definition the intent of terrorism is 'usually intended to influence an audience' or 'to intimidate a population, or to compel a government or international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act'.

    Labeling a violent crime 'terrorism' before knowing if that is the case does more harm than good. It artificially inflates the perception of the threat by communities that are likely to be targeted, ie it falsely intimidates them. Publicizing any violent crime as terrorism risks encouraging copycat attacks. It matters how we define and distinguish violent crimes so that justice can be meted out accordingly, and so that strategies and efforts to prevent them can be effective. Making these distinctions does not, and should not, in any way minimize or otherwise diminish sympathy for (or empathy with) the victims.

    This is a contradiction (since it follows the post saying Avignon is an act of terror but maybe not by a terrorist) - An act of terror defined as 'intended to put fear into the hearts of victims' is in fact terrorism and thus an attack committed by a terrorist. (How do we label a group as 'terrorist' vs. 'freedom fighter'? This is one of the reasons why there is no universal definition under international law eg UN. Here's a fairly comprehensive list of how terrorism is defined: http://www.secbrief.org/2014/04/definition-of-terrorism/)
    ETA: The US government publishes their designations of foreign terrorist organizations - https://www.state.gov/j/ct/list/ ...so any criminal act engaged in by these individuals/groups, and carried out in support of a political or religious ideological cause, falls under 'terrorist activity' as far as the US is concerned.
    Here's how France/ DGSE does it: https://blogs.loc.gov/law/2015/01/falqs-terrorism-in-france/
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2017
    21stamps likes this.
  2. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    The main reason I wanted to differentiate this from Fort Hood is because so far this seems to be violence between two groups, possibly gangs. The people leaving the mosque were not targeted, and the mosque's location is a complete coincidence with the actual shooting and intended targets.

    I'm not saying that you are doing the following, but it is extremely dangerous, irresponsible, and wrong, to make an unaffiliated attack into a story of an attack on a religious group, whatever religion that group may be.
     
  3. willtravel

    willtravel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,899
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    That is not what I was saying or doing and insulted you suggested that. But you have your opinion, and I mine. No more said on subject.
     
    Angel Ariel likes this.
  4. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    I know that you weren't, there are other people who still appear to think the mosque was targeted. Most of my statement was directed to the thread in general... I just wanted to make clear the difference of the shooting occurring "near" and not "in" or "at". I understand your comparison and opinion on it.
     
  5. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    Right. If this is gang related.. then do we start labeling every shooting in the US as "an act of terror"? Of course not.
    That doesn't make it any less sad for the vicitims, but there's a wide gap between a murder/attempted murder, and trying to influence politics, religion, and targeting people from certain groups/religious beliefs/political leanings.


    Riots lately imo are an Act of terror, the congressman shooting was an act of terror.
    But a mass shooting at a nightclub in my city- not an act of terror.
     
    SorcererMC likes this.
  6. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    Not the first of it's kind.. but here's an actual terror attack on a mosque.. by- ISIS.

    I'll even use Al Jazeera as the source here.

    http://www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2...nce-hit-deadly-explosion-170801163417483.html
    ASIA
    Suicide bombers target Shia mosque in Herat city
    02 AUGUST 2017
    Dozens killed and death toll feared to rise with several wounded in critical condition after blast in west Afghanistan.

    _______


    ISIS also claimed responsibility for an attack on international forces today, killing two Americans.

    These people are monsters.
     
  7. aw14

    aw14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    3,922
    outside of attacks, the destruction of historical monuments of the Ancient Near East is devastating. So much history and knowledge is being destroyed. Not comparing to human life....just as an additional piece
     
    21stamps likes this.
  8. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    Completely agree.
     
  9. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    So many groups of terror are destroying this world right now. I feel like it's just getting worse.. now Al Qaeda is back with Bin Laden Junior running things.. main goal- destroy the USA.

    I want to be happy about the South African who was just released, but it just seems off..especially with the recent propaganda that the group has been spreading lately.. I don't know, but I think we have a lot more to see from them, and not stories of releasing prisoners.
     
  10. MerlinTheGoat

    MerlinTheGoat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    9,486
    While some may not agree with this assessment, I personally believe the Charlottesville violence committed by far right Neo Nazis warrants being classified as terrorism. At the very least regarding the psychopath taking a page out of ISIS' book and driving a vehicle through a crowd murdering people. Seems like a pretty fair assessment IMHO.
     
  11. aw14

    aw14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    3,922
    I agree. This is a case of domestic terrorism. It is becoming an increasing issue on all sides. Absolutely ridiculous, but mostly just sad
     
  12. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    Honestly, I wouldn't be sad if the Neo Nazis and Antifa members ended up all harming each other..finding themselves sharing hospital rooms. Both should be prosecuted for domestic terror. The driver especially.

    My prayers go out to anyone caught in the crossfire of these two groups.
     
    aw14 likes this.
  13. aw14

    aw14 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2012
    Messages:
    1,322
    Likes Received:
    3,922
    I hate to say it, but I said the same thing to my wife tonight. Let them harm each other and leave the rest alone
     
    21stamps likes this.
  14. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    This was a very interesting and true read..
    https://mobile.twitter.com/egavactip/status/896455174927122437

    I don't want to place blame on authorities, but they HAD to know that Antifa would show up.
    Antifa and White Supremacists are the two most hateful, destructive, and violent groups that exist.. how could the city/state not be prepared for it?

    I hope all cities learn a lesson from what happened today. Can't undo what's been done, but we have to prevent it in the future. Do NOT let groups like this come in contact with each other in public. Keep a barrier.
     
  15. Quinnmac000

    Quinnmac000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2014
    Messages:
    1,365
    Likes Received:
    2,642
    Antifa didn't run over a group of protestors. Neo Nazis did. Stop trying to "both sides" this when even the GOP leadership outside the president and Pence seem to be calling it for what it is.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    I will not stop saying anything. It was White Supremacists and Antifa who were violent, and I hope these 2 groups never get a chance to come in contact again.

    Neither group should have been there, neither group should have been fighting. They're both absolutely disgusting. Each of them represents evil and hate.

    I've already given my thoughts on the driver. I hope he's convicted for domestic terror.
     
    aw14 likes this.
  17. MerlinTheGoat

    MerlinTheGoat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2011
    Messages:
    2,964
    Likes Received:
    9,486
    There is a huge difference between peaceful protesters and the more violent people within Antifa, even if they both identify as Antifa. I'm critical of extreme Antifa violence myself and will continue to do so, but I am also aware that there are many peaceful people in the movement too who just want to speak out against hatred.

    In this particular confrontation, it appears that the protesters were expressing themselves in a non violent manner (unlike the Berkeley riots). Which is well within their right to do, I applaud and agree when protests like these are conducted in such a manner. Neo Nazis abuse their constitutional right to free speech to feed their deranged hatred. But those same laws also allow myself and other sane people to speak out in opposition against hateful ideologies. And unlike Nazis, you have reason and the moral high ground as well with support from the general public, provided your group doesn't escalate it to violence.

    From what I been able to determine, it was the Neo Nazis that apparently escalated the confrontation into physical violence in this case. They surrounded and physically detained the counter protesters from leaving, pepper spraying them, dousing them in lighter fluid while brandishing torches at them. And finally culminating in the lunatic terrorist mowing them down. At that point, if the protesters fought back then it would understandably be a self defense situation.

    I haven't seen any legitimate source to indicate the protesters were doing anything illegal. Yet anyways. So at the moment I'm siding with the anti Nazi protestor unless I hear otherwise. The vehicle incident will remain a horrific and disgusting terrorist act regardless.
     
    Angel Ariel likes this.
  18. SorcererMC

    SorcererMC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,065
    Likes Received:
    2,011
    I'd say that is unlikely or doubtful at this juncture. FBI Richmond is opening a civil rights investigation, which points to hate crime charges.
    _____________
    (Not directed at you personally)
    Again I urge caution in jumping to conclusions before the facts are known.
    The fact that it took place at a white supremacist rally or protest, that escalated to violence, does not in and of itself mean that it is domestic terrorism. Some distinctions to be made, for example - what was the primary motive or intent of the crime: personal grievance or retaliation, ideological or religious extremism, according to race or other form of bias/discrimination, intimidation, etc. And what does the available evidence suggest or support.

    My hope is that justice will be served and that peace will prevail.
     
    21stamps and aw14 like this.
  19. 21stamps

    21stamps Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2016
    Messages:
    10,744
    Likes Received:
    12,503
    It looks like the investigation is leading that way though.

    Maybe, just maybe, such serious charges would defer all hate groups from the violence that we have been seeing way too often.
     
    SorcererMC likes this.
  20. willtravel

    willtravel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2013
    Messages:
    1,899
    Likes Received:
    2,583
    Is it printed somewhere this Neo Nazis violence was committed as you say from the " far right"?
     
    21stamps likes this.

Share This Page