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Survivor: Millennials vs. Gen X

Discussion in 'TV Shows, Movies, and Music' started by RMichael21, Aug 22, 2016.

  1. SAV

    SAV Well-Known Member

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  2. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    The only problem with a 2-person finale is often the best player never wins and is voted out 3rd if they don't win immunity. I like the bigger jury for returnee seasons. But I think they need to merge at 12 instead of 13.
     
  3. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Too many tweaks this season. Legacy advantage, reward steal, both unneeded.

    The challenges were fun because they weren't recycled. I was upset when the final challenge was a recycled one. I have never been a favorite of that one either. My favorite challenge this season was the puzzle with the ball dropping.
     
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  4. IDInstitute

    IDInstitute Well-Known Member

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    There were two more, in Caramoan and Fiji (not saying actual name just in case people are yet to watch them if they haven't seen them sometime).
    I agree. I started out disappointed in the challenge set up with them all seemingly being the same variation of "balance a ball", but by the end they got pretty interesting and I enjoyed that a lot.
     
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  5. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member

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    I think the only thing that worked was the heart strings... which is why he got all votes (including David's). I don't think Hannah had enough opportunity to make her case, nor was she strong enough to put Adam back in his place.

    She didn't outline how it was her that powered through many of those impossible votes and her role in them. She failed to do that in the finale and that hurt her IMO. She let Adam drive the narrative of 'you make a mistake' instead of telling HER story.. and that's where her fraile, small, attitude returned. She didn't outline how she managed to stay on the fringe of other groups allowing her to gather info and set people up,etc.

    Just look at how many tribals Adam looked like a lost child afterwards.. so many things happened in the game AROUND him instead of because of him. He let Taylor and Jay play him like a fiddle at that one tribal and couldn't retort them at all. That was pathetic. Being around people with stronger backbones would have buried most of these people.
     
  6. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    Apparently I don't know my Survivor history that well. :hilarious:
     
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  7. SAV

    SAV Well-Known Member

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  8. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member

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    wow..

    Holmes: What was the mood of the jury before that final Tribal started?
    LaBelle: I think we were all in a good mood. I think we all knew how we were going to vote. Jay, what do you think?
    Starrett: I think you were drunk.
    LaBelle: (Laughs)
    Starrett: No, I think we were ready to vote and get out of there.
    Holmes: Had everyone already reached a consensus that Adam was going to win?
    LaBelle: I think he had it. Anyone who sat in that seat would have had it.
    Holmes: So anyone who faced Ken and Hannah?
    LaBelle: They’re not saying it, but I’m saying it.

    See this is why I think the players need their speeches at Tribal... the jury only knows the game from their perspective as a player. The 'secrets' or the dialogue between the higher and lower profile players (like David vs Hannah) are not in the open.
     
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  9. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    I like speeches, too. I've heard players say before they've gotten speeches, they've just been cut out due to time limitations. Not sure if that's the case this season, but it's something to consider.

    However, there's a lot more going on on the island that we don't see as viewers. The main part of the game, as it's been since Borneo, is having the players you voted off decide who gets to win. If you can't work the jury, you won't win. That's just the game. While it's created some winners who didn't deserve it as much - Natalie over Russell, Sandra over Parvati and Russell, Michele over Aubry... that's what makes the game fun.

    But as you know, I think the best player from the final 3 won this season.
     
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  10. IDInstitute

    IDInstitute Well-Known Member

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    While they aren't "technically" getting speeches, they kind of are when you look at what questions they jury is asking. Taylor, who was first asked why you deserve to win, which was essentially the opening speech, and then David closing's question allowed for a type of closing speech. Nonetheless though one speech isn't going to make a difference in who gets the votes, if final tribal is going to sway someone, it would be throughout all of it. They said what they needed to say.
    I agree with you. At the end of the day jury management is a huge part of the game, and if you didn't do a successful job in that, then unfortunately you didn't deserve to win. It should be considered just as important a factor in physical or strategic in my opinion; the idea of being "screwed by a bitter jury" shouldn't be a thing.

    And for the record, I'm not saying this is definitely why Hannah lost. She lost for a multitude of reasons of how she played a poor game. But ultimately I think she valued herself and her game much higher than she should have and ceased to try and understand others' points of view. As you said earlier on in the thread, everyone is the hero of their own story. Hannah probably felt like she was the mastermind a lot of the time, but she didn't really realize that others weren't perceiving her in the same way. While Will went about correcting it poorly, at least he was able to recognize this. It felt to me like Hannah didn't realize this until it was way too late, and tried to haphazardly convince the jury of her story (As Sophie put it in the finale Know It Alls, she went the wrong way about breaking down the perceptions. Instead of trying to slowly walk around the wall in her way, she tried just pounding and beating on it to try and get through, forcing a story that was essentially a regurgitation of David's arch that everyone saw as threatening).
     
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  11. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    My last post made me curious how many times I think the lesser player in the final TC has won... here's what I found.

    Season 8: All-Stars - Amber won over Boston Rob
    Season 11: Guatemala - Danni won over Stephenie
    Season 19: Samoa - Natalie won over Russell
    Season 20: Heroes vs Villains - Sandra won over Partvati and Russell (would have taken both of them, in that order)
    Season 23: South Pacific - Sophie won over Coach (this one I was less upset over)
    Season 32: Koah Rong - Michele won over Aubry

    In Worlds Apart and Cambodia my favorite player was in the final TC, and I was upset when they lost, but realized the winner deserved it over them (Carolyn and Spencer).
     
  12. JenniferS

    JenniferS WDW is flat. Premium Member

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    Nobody was ever robbed as much as Russell, especially in his first season.

    I don't even have to Google the date - 12/20/09, the biggest black eye in bitter jury history.
     
  13. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    Early on in the game, and early in the merge, Hannah let the perception of her become the psychotic, spazzy goat who will go with whatever you say - because, let's face it, she was. While she corrected that at the end, it was too late. Ken's message of honor and loyalty I'm assuming wore on people throughout the season, much like it did with Coach in South Pacific. And in modern-day Survivor, honor and loyalty is viewed as the cop-out answer for "I really didn't do anything strategically." I think Adam switched the perception of himself at the perfect time. He was an underdog pre-merge, and he then took a lot of heat right at the beginning of the merge. He quickly changed the perception of himself in time for the jury to respect him. You can't just get to the final 6 or 7 and expect to change a perception that's been with people for 30 days.
     
  14. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree. Natalie was one of the worst winners ever. She did absolutely nothing. And I get Russell really ticked people off, but neither Natalie nor Mick did anything to deserve votes over him. I can see the case for Parvati or Sandra over him in HvV, but there's not a case to be made in Samoa.
     
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  15. IDInstitute

    IDInstitute Well-Known Member

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    The social game isn't something that should be discredited, it is by far the most important aspect. Natalie isn't the best winner but saying she did absolutely nothing is a bit unfair.
     
  16. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member

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    Perception is based on what you know... and you can't always share all the details while the game is still in play. That's why final tribal is an interactive session, not a mail in vote :) People are given the opportunity to answer things w/o fear of what the exposure will do. That's why I think the focus needs to be on people giving their pitches.

    I would prefer the jury not be able to talk about game between each other.. but I know that's just not practical.
     
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  17. PUSH

    PUSH Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Everyone who gets to the final TC did something right. But she was definitely a coattail rider of Russell's.

    The only thing that separates Russell from being the best Survivor of all-time is his social game. But with that said, he probably wouldn't be able to pull off what he has done strategically if he had a better social game.
     
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  18. flynnibus

    flynnibus Well-Known Member

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    You also see that when they ask a question to all three... rarely do all three get equal representation in time or focus. And then you have people like Adam interrupting.. and you don't want to ignore the question and answer with something completely different (****ing off the jury member that asked the question).. so I don't agree that the Q&A is an equivalent.
     
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  19. JenniferS

    JenniferS WDW is flat. Premium Member

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    I agree.
    I take it, Flynni, that you don't think Adam should have won.

    Rewind to the final six, and share your preferred order, please.

    I'll go first:
    Ken
    David/Jay
    Adam
    Hannah








    Bret
     
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  20. IDInstitute

    IDInstitute Well-Known Member

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    I actually liked Adam's FTC performance. Being aggressive to get your point across might upset some people, but at the end of the day he shouldn't just sit there and not try and do whatever he can to win.
    And honestly about equal representation/focus, there's a fair chance that often that's just because of editing; not everything can make the cut.
     

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