Something needs to change with bus transportation at Saratoga Springs because of DTD

[Mammymouse]

I'm thinking that would add a whole new layer of systems and employees and that would drive up ticket prices. Because of unforeseen things (wheelchairs to be loaded, traffic snafus, etc.) the buses get there when they get there, and people will still complain even more if the bus doesn't show up when expected on the "bus tracker". Sorry :shrug:, but my personal opinion is we will have to live with a little uncertainty when it comes to transportation.

 

[slappy magoo]

I agree with using you room key to get on the Disney bus to the resorts.

I don't agree with everything RonAnnArbor thinks, but I do agree that one of the reasons Disney gives non-resort guests access to all their transportation is to get them the opportunity to visit the resorts. "See how the other half lives." OK, that's pompous, and Lord knows many offsite resorts are technically more "deluxe" and have more amenities at a lower price than Disney resorts. But Disney wants nonresort guests to visit other resorts, in the hopes that seeing them makes those people decide "OK, next time, we're staying HERE." It's not uncommon for non-resort guests to still hop on buses and dine and shop at other resorts (which, by the way, lightens the load at the parks' shops and restaurants, too), especially during the holiday season. Besides, once you start going down that slope, who's to say that a Beach Club guest won't pitch a snit fit because they know someone who's staying at Pop Century is on "HIS bus?" Sure, he's got a resort card, but it's the WRONG resort, Welfare Queen! You want to get to Beach Club? WALK!

But that's really small potatoes, compared to the slightly larger (but still not huge) potatoes that is people parking at DTD, and then either hopping on resort buses to a resort walking/boating/monorail distance to their final destination (getting on a bus for Contemporary, Poly or GF - whichever comes first - to get to MK, for example) OR walking to Saratoga and using their resort-to-parks buses. I disagree with RonAnnArbor's statement that Disney doesn't care, because the money those people save by parking free is offset by the money they save by using Disney transportation. First of all, when it comes to spending money to make money, parking is one of the purest profits there is. They don't have to buy a damn thing to sell to you, even at a premium. It's a lot. It needs upkeep, but it would need upkeep whether people were paying to use it or not, so why not charge people to use it? If it were parking that could be validated, then technically, the parking would still be free as long as guests spent enough money to offset the validated parking. If anything, it would persuade people who were using the DTD lot to save money an incentive to park in the lot of the park du jour, freeing up a parking space for people who DO want to shop in DTD (it's not like the lot is always easy to find a spot), which results in Disney making EVEN MORE money. If Disney instituted paid-but-validated parking in DTD, and then started putting buses on routes to theme parks to/from DTD, then pretty much the only people who could "take advantage" of it would be people who are within walking distance of DTD, using Disney buses to go to resorts but have no intention of going to theme parks that day, thus meaning they have no "right" to use Disney transportation, as it's technically reserved for theme park guests. I doubt that happens often, I'd certainly assume less often then the current abuse of the system.

I am a DVC owner at Wilderness Lodge and I also think that Disney should improve on the way guests are informed on when a bus is going to arrive at your resort.

If you ever ask when the next bus will be there they say "They run about every 15 min." How about using that Disney info channel on the in room TV. to post what time the next bus will arrive at your resort and where it is going?

They could call it the bus tracker. Or if not in the rooms put a board at the bus stop/ lobby with the time the next bus will arrive. They should do the same with all Disney transportation.

I'm not sure using channels on resort TVs would be of much use, considering that info could be outdated by the time you even get to the bus stop. The idea of using GPS trackers has some validity, but I think there's an even simpler answer than that - I take the train to NYC every day via NJ Transit. The service is far from top notch, but each morning, we get a prerecorded message on the station's intercom, letting us know the train is approximately 3 minutes away. And if there are delays anywhere along the line - whether we'll be waiting for the train to arrive, OR once we are on the train we should expect delays getting into NYC - there are prerecorded messages for that, as well.

Seems to me (though really, what do I know?) this is not an impossibility for Disney transportation to start using similar messages. A driver routed between Epcot and WL is just leaving Epcot, he can send a signal (it can even be automatic when he parks at the depot) that sends a message to intercoms at WL's bus station, which advises guests the bus just left Epcot and should arrive within 15 minutes (or however long it takes to get to those two points). If traffic or special needs passengers slow him down, he can send a signal that revises the message accordingly, so WL guests at least have an idea how long the wait will be. They can even make the message sound folksy "hey, I should be there in 10 minutes, I know you're all excited to get to Epcot, but we all know, traffic happens to even the best of us, so hang tight, I'll get there as quickly and as safely as I possibly can." "Hey, folks if you're waiting for a ride to Epcot, I'm still on the way, but traffic is not my friend today, so I'm going to be just a few minutes late...I miss you, too, don't worry, we'll be together again reeeeeal soon. I guarantee it (guarantee not guaranteed, heh heh)."

 

[flavious27]

Something needs to change with the bus transportation at Saratoga Springs because of Downtown Disney.

I am a DVC member and owner at Saratoga Springs and visit there at least twice a year. In the past couple of years I knew it was bad, but my last trip in early November has convinced to me that it is much worse and now something needs to change.

What are the problems….well there are 2.

1- WAY too many people (not staying at Saratoga Springs and some not even staying on Disney property) will simply hop onto the Saratoga Springs bus at the theme parks so they can get to Downtown Disney. It is easy to spot these people because they are the ones that ask which stop to get off on, etc. I even see/hear the bus drivers telling them they can do this and where to go. Something has got to stop this from happening and becoming more and more of a trend.

Those of us staying at Saratoga Springs or owning at Saratoga Springs through DVC (paying LOTS of $ to Disney for this luxury) are now standing in longer bus lines, standing up on busses (for example with my 18 month old) while others just going to DTD get to sit, or worse yet we’re not able to even get on a bus because of all the “extra” people wanting to just find a way to DTD. I witnessed this on every bus ride back to Saratoga Springs but discovered it to be much worse at the end of the day (park closing) particularly at Animal Kingdom when most people tend to leave after the 3:45pm parade…and this is also when the busses are full. It’s not fair when those of us staying at Saratoga Springs can’t even use our busses like those at other resorts can.

2- People staying off property or locals parking at Downtown Disney, and then getting to Saratoga Springs to take the busses to the parks to keep from paying parking fees. Again, very easy to spot these people because they seem to always talk about what they are doing on the bus (why they brag about this I don’t know).
Again, this takes up space on busses at Saratoga Springs for guests and DVC members staying there while those staying off property or are simply locals take advantage of the situation and not paying to park at the theme parks.

Possible Solutions:

In my opinion, Disney makes this WAY too easy for just anyone to ride a bus. Those staying ON Disney property (in a Disney Resort) should be able to use any of the busses to/from wherever they desire… HOWEVER… Disney needs to strongly consider a bus running from each theme park TO Downtown Disney.

1- Have a bus that provides transportation FROM each theme park TO Downtown Disney, but it would NOT pickup from Downtown Disney to the theme park (this will stop those getting on a bus to keep from paying parking fees). If the ride back to the theme park to pick other guests up is wasteful with no one on board, then have the bus stop at Saratoga Springs or Port Orleans to pick up for that theme park.

Example:

• Bus stops at designated Downtown Disney bus stop at Animal Kingdom for transportation to Downtown Disney
• Bus stops at Downtown Disney (Saratoga Springs stop) to let guests off, and load guests for that resort.
• Bus stops at Saratoga Springs to let folks off and to load for next trip to Theme Park
• Repeat

2. Each guest at Saratoga Springs (or Port Orleans if it is a problem there too) could have a Disney bus pass for their resort that they could show to the bus driven upon entry to the bus. Would this be a hassle and inconvenience… maybe a little, but definitely not as much as the hassle and inconvenience of giving up bus seats and transportation to others that are taking advantage of the system. If this is too much, then simply have each family show their Disney Resort key to prove they are at least staying on site during these dates. If Disney provides Downtown Disney transportation from the theme parks then showing the room key would then eliminate those other people parking at Downtown Disney (staying off property) trying to take advantage of the busses at SSR.

I’m sure there are many other ideas that would work as well, maybe better than the ones I mentioned but seriously…someone needs to really take a look at this as this problem is only getting worse as more and more people discover how easy this is to do…and those that suffer are the ones staying at the resort or DVC members paying into that resort.

Thanks for listening to my thoughts & suggestions

This can happen at anyone of the hotels. We drove from All Star to Fort Wilderness in the mornings to visit our dog when he was at the kennel and then hopped on one of the FW buses. WDW should discourage the bus drivers from telling passengers how to jump busses to avoid the parking fee, even if this seems like it is counter to customer service.

 

[metzger01]

Actually, I believe that the simplest solution would also save them money that is escaping them now. No one wants to pay $12 or whatever it costs now for parking when they are already spending an exorbitant amount inside the parks. The simple solution would be to have free parking and make it up by charging an appropiate addition to the cost of the tickets. For instance, if the average carload has 4 occupants, add $3 per day to the cost of tickets.. They could make adjustments as to how many people park for free because they stay on-site, and also as to how many skip paying altogether by parking at DTD. So they may only have to increase ticket prices by maybe $1.50 per day. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

 

[flavious27]

Actually, I believe that the simplest solution would also save them money that is escaping them now. No one wants to pay $12 or whatever it costs now for parking when they are already spending an exorbitant amount inside the parks. The simple solution would be to have free parking and make it up by charging an appropiate addition to the cost of the tickets. For instance, if the average carload has 4 occupants, add $3 per day to the cost of tickets.. They could make adjustments as to how many people park for free because they stay on-site, and also as to how many skip paying altogether by parking at DTD. So they may only have to increase ticket prices by maybe $1.50 per day. Just my opinion, for whatever it's worth.

So you want hotel guests to subsidize parking fees for day trippers? That won't go down so well.

 

[Wilt Dasney]

So you want hotel guests to subsidize parking fees for day trippers? That won't go down so well.

I could have missed the point s/he was making, but it sounds like the suggestion was everyone would pay (roughly) what they pay NOW for parking, with those who "earn" free parking factored into the equation. If resort guests were paying a daytripper "subsidy" as you say, it would probably be so miniscule as to go unnoticed. Again, that's assuming I have followed the reasoning.

I have to say it's not the worst idea I've ever heard...especially if you consider that Disney could probably get away with adding a ~$5 parking fee on TOP of that since most guests wouldn't realize they had ALREADY paid for genuine parking expenses at that point, and would see it as a "bargain" to only pay $3 for parking.

 

[unkadug]

The whole problem stems from some people feeling entitled because they bought into DVC.

The OP claimed he is an owner. That right there is a misnomer, as ownership still is retained by Disney.

Should DVC members get exclusive buses? Are they more entitled to special privileges than the guest staying at POP? Off site? Daytrippers?

So you want hotel guests to subsidize parking fees for day trippers? That won't go down so well.

I think you have missed the point that hotel guests are already paying for parking...it's all figured into the rates for the room. There IS no free lunch.

 

[flavious27]

The whole problem stems from some people feeling entitled because they bought into DVC.

The OP claimed he is an owner. That right there is a misnomer, as ownership still is retained by Disney.

Should DVC members get exclusive buses? Are they more entitled to special privileges than the guest staying at POP? Off site? Daytrippers?




I think you have missed the point that hotel guests are already paying for parking...it's all figured into the rates for the room. There IS no free lunch.

Well yeah hotel guests are already paying for their parking, but if disney dropped the daily fee and increased everyone's park ticket a dollar or two per day, hotel guests are going to paying the day trippers' parking fee. It would also be rewarding those that are parking at DTD and other parking lots on property to avoid the parking fee.

 

[unkadug]

Well yeah hotel guests are already paying for their parking, but if disney dropped the daily fee and increased everyone's park ticket a dollar or two per day, hotel guests are going to paying the day trippers' parking fee. It would also be rewarding those that are parking at DTD and other parking lots on property to avoid the parking fee.

OK, here's a work around... give hotel guests a discount of what ever the rate increase would be.

This is all hypothetical anyway, since they would NEVER stick to this. Rate increases are all a crap shoot anyway. It's generally all about "Let's see how much we can increase the our prices before the guests stop coming."

There is no way to appease everyone when it comes to Disney Transportation. You have those that don't care how long it takes to get from point "A" to point "B" and then have those who think the transportation system should be for them only.

ME...I take my own vehicle. :shrug:

Do those who visit NYC think that because they paid for a room at the Ritz that the NYC subway system should be for them only? I think not.

 

[flavious27]

OK, here's a work around... give hotel guests a discount of what ever the rate increase would be.

This is all hypothetical anyway, since they would NEVER stick to this. Rate increases are all a crap shoot anyway. It's generally all about "Let's see how much we can increase the our prices before the guests stop coming."

There is no way to appease everyone when it comes to Disney Transportation. You have those that don't care how long it takes to get from point "A" to point "B" and then have those who think the transportation system should be for them only.

ME...I take my own vehicle. :shrug:

Do those who visit NYC think that because they paid for a room at the Ritz that the NYC subway system should be for them only? I think not.

I think that disney should look at the guests that are parking at dtd and other sites on property. Are they local residents that are day tripping it? Are they guests staying off property?

If it is local residents, disney should do more to encourage them to be annual passholders. Free parking is part of the benefits of the premium package, along with unlimited trips to all of the major and minor gates.

If it is off property hotel guests, what is keeping them off property.

 

[Disneykidder]

Hmmm, I can see how this would be a problem and unfair to people actually staying on property. A simple solution would be to use youR KTTW card. Everyone should flash the card or even slide it through a slot to show its validity for that time period. (Because anyone can flash an old card due to a driver not checking dates to save time.) It's just an idea.

But I do agree that someone staying off property should not be using this priviledge that on property guests pay for. The transportation system is a nice perk. My hubby loves not having to drive anywhere and likes the relaxation of the bus. That is a major reason why we stay on property. (among other perks)

 

[disneyeater]

I am not sure there is a good solution to this problem.

If you charge for parking at DTD, you will lose some of the business from locals and off-site guests.

If you only allow those staying at Disney resorts to use the transportation, you again are losing business of park hoppers, those who eat at the hotels....

If you have busses that go directly to/from DTD and the parks, you will only increase the problem of people parking at DTD by making it easier which would decrease Disney's revenue from parking fees.

I am just not sure there is a better solution than what is currently in place.

 

[tjkraz]

Reality is Disney is trying to have their cake and eat it, too. You can bet that ticket prices will go up more than $3 this year...and yet Disney will continue to charge for parking as well. They know there are holes in the system. Aside from SSR, it isn't all that difficult to talk your way past a guard at any resort hotel, park at a waterpark, etc. Disney is content with the revenues they get under the current parking scheme. Yes, they could make MORE money if they closed some of the loopholes mentioned above, but it would cost them money to do so (more guard shacks, more guards, more abrasive attitude toward guests).

Nor do I expect them to put up any more literal or figurative barriers to people spending money around WDW. They aren't going to start asking for room keys on buses. They aren't going to enforce any sort of "resort guests only" policies for buses. They COULD do something about parking at WDW but I think that's mostly viewed as a barrier to people spending money. If they charge a parking fee--even one that's refundable with a purchase--many people will just bypass DTD altogether and they lose countless dollars from spur-of-the-moment purchases. Heck, contracts with outside vendors at DTD may even prohibit Disney from charging for parking.

As for this supposed entitlement by SSR owners, I don't those comments are really fair. Every year DVC is required to send members a statement which lists how much of our dues is going toward housekeeping, maintenance and even transportation. So owners are getting are seeing what they pay for those buses right there in black and white. And I'm sure it's hard for some to reconcile that high cost (annual transportation budget is several million dollars) with the reality that Disney is turning a blind eye to abuse.

We would be having similar conversations with cash resort guests if Disney gave out statements showing exactly what their $200-500 room rates were paying for. If guests received an itemized statement showing that they paid "X" for DME, "Y" for health club maintenance and "Z" for swimming pools, there would be mile-long threads discussing why guests have to pay for these things if they aren't using them and what steps Disney is taking to prevent outsiders from taking up space in "their" buses, health clubs and pools.

 

[Mammymouse]

Is the answer as simple as - just run more buses?

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Unfortunately, it is doubtful that Disney will change. Since any guest has the ability to eat at any resort restaurant, maybe Turf Club, and they will want the ability to ride a bus from MK to SSR and back. Disney will not want to make them drive back and forth if they don't want to.

We always stay in the Grandstand area, first on and first off the theme park buses!

 

[mrerk]

Is the answer as simple as - just run more buses?

The problem with that is that the members pay for the busses. If they add more busses to accomodate the parking cheats the members will be the ones paying for it.

The only answer I see is posting a guard on the path from DTD to SSR like they do at the drive in entrances. If you have a legitimate reason for entering you can go, if not you get turned back.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

The problem with that is that the members pay for the busses. If they add more busses to accomodate the parking cheats the members will be the ones paying for it.

The only answer I see is posting a guard on the path from DTD to SSR like they do at the drive in entrances. If you have a legitimate reason for entering you can go, if not you get turned back.

All you have to say is that you are going to the Turf Club, to the shop, or just to look around. Just like the other resorts, saying any of those things will suffice for you to be allowed in.

 

[Todd L]

Its sad and unfourtunate that some classless people wont give up a seat for a Child or anyone who needs the seat.

I always offer and would expect my kids and family members to do the same.

Its the 10% rule..10% of the people in the world will ruin it for everyone else.

I cant imagine what kinda nightmare it would cause if you start checking for room keys or a dining reservation to allow people to use the resort transportation.

Can you imagine waiting on line for a bus to your home resort after a long hot day and then be put on a wait list becasue the guy behind you has a Dining reservation at you resort??

there would be a Riot for Sure!!

 

[tjkraz]

The problem with that is that the members pay for the busses. If they add more busses to accomodate the parking cheats the members will be the ones paying for it.

The only answer I see is posting a guard on the path from DTD to SSR like they do at the drive in entrances. If you have a legitimate reason for entering you can go, if not you get turned back.

Then SSR owners would be paying for extra security personnel. And it would be a pointless move anyway. The parking cheats could easily talk their way past a guard by claiming to be resort guests. Where is your room key? "Oh, we have other family members back in the room so I didn't bring it with me."

As I said this is a lightning rod issue for SSR owners but really it happens all over. BLT owners are paying monorail costs but how many non-owners ride the monorail? How many non-guests ride a bus to AKV to check out the animals? How many take the Hollywood Studios boat to the BoardWalk or Beach Club?

Its sad and unfourtunate that some classless people wont give up a seat for a Child or anyone who needs the seat.

I always offer and would expect my kids and family members to do the same.

Let's not take this thread down that particular road. It's a pretty slippery slope when you try to judge others from afar on a theme park bus.

Certain people should not be standing on a bus, but they also have the option of waiting for the next bus or arranging their own transportation.

I am a healthy, non-obese 40 year old who also happens to suffer from occasional foot and knee pain from old sports injuries. Last fall I spent most of a day walking around the Magic Kingdom and Epcot before taking a bus back to AKV. I waited a considerable time at the bus stop and was the 4th person to board the bus. However, the driver remained at the station for a good 15 minutes until it was standing room only.

I would like to think that none of my fellow bus riders were so bold as to judge me less worthy of a seat. I've given up my seat many times in the past--but I just could not on that particular occasion.

The kicker is, if those standing had started for the bus 20 minutes earlier, they would have had a seat, too.

 

[flavious27]

How about this, you need to have a dvc passholder card to use the buses to get to sr and oky. No pass, get a new one from the front desk. As for DTD, DTD buses will only travel to the ttc until noon, then it picks up the normal schedule.