News WDW Resorts to add fees for parking

GoofGoof

Premium Member
But aren't they knocking down several existing buildings to do it? Do we know what the net gain of rooms will be?
They are taking out some rooms, but they are adding a 15 story tower so it will definitely add to capacity at CSR. However, they are also knocking down rooms at CBR to build what is assumed to be a DVC tower so the net hotel rooms added may not be substantial.
 

contrariwise

Well-Known Member
My only "evidence" is my personal experience having a problem..Also meeting people in line for the launch from MK, after park closing, hearing people talk on the launch..:and friends who have had the same experience.
So, it's completely anecdotal and people can choose the believe or not.

However, I'm sure if you searched the subject you can find plenty of people on FB or message boards who say they do this..or are asking for advice of how to do it.

Dang, I didn't know you had all that. People on the launch? Why didn't you just say so. I take it all back. Iron clad case. I can see why you were so sure. Silly me.
 

SugarMagnolia75

Active Member
My only "evidence" is my personal experience having a problem..Also meeting people in line for the launch from MK, after park closing, hearing people talk on the launch..:and friends who have had the same experience.
So, it's completely anecdotal and people can choose the believe or not.

However, I'm sure if you searched the subject you can find plenty of people on FB or message boards who say they do this..or are asking for advice of how to do it.

If I search the internet, I can also find people who think the moon landing was fake.

No one is saying this never happens. Some of us don't think it happens enough to be the reason parking fees would be needed. I don't think it's happening more now than it did before and Disney already has ways to deal with it when they need to. It's just an excuse for their next money grab.
 
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larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
Attendance was reported down in domestic parks..but revenue was up. That means the attendance drop wasn't near as severe as people claim. Could it possibly be that the attendance drops were more from would-be 1 day ticket holders during the newly high priced peak times? Especially since resort bookings has such a high percentage? Another radical thought, I know.
Maybe it's 5 percent fewer people spending 15 percent more due to the higher admission, room rates, and many more upsell opportunities...?
 

SugarMagnolia75

Active Member
They are taking out some rooms, but they are adding a 15 story tower so it will definitely add to capacity at CSR. However, they are also knocking down rooms at CBR to build what is assumed to be a DVC tower so the net hotel rooms added may not be substantial.

I read that the new rooms may be "business deluxe" so it looks like they want to increase convention guests.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
Ok. But really, it's because no one has shown that it has increased. Much less appreciably increased so much that parking would be significantly impacted. Is it really so annoying that I won't just take your word for it?
It's annoying that you're latching on to something that was said in combination with an abuse issue.
It's annoying that 5 minutes ago your whole argument was "I can't take one lady's word on resort availability being changed in recent years." "Occupancy levels have not risen"
And, again, it's annoying that after you were proved on that subject you are now trying to take it back to a different topic altogether, about people abusing parking. Oh and btw, I never said that would be the cause of resort fees or resort wide parking fees.

So, how about you just stop?
How many times does someone have to ask you to move on from them? I agreed to disagree with you. No argument from me.
 

larryz

I'm Just A Tourist!
Premium Member
Just for the record, this is directly from the Q1 earnings release:

Growth at our domestic operations was driven primarily by higher guest spending across our businesses, partially offset by lower attendance. Attendance at our domestic parks was down 5% in the quarter, reflecting a number of comparability factors: last year's 60th Anniversary celebration at Disneyland Resort, the impact of Hurricane Matthew, and the shift in timing of the winter holiday. We estimate these factors had an adverse impact on the year-over-year change in attendance of about 4 percentage points.
So while attendance was down year over year it's really only down 1% after adjusting for the comparability factors which is also what it was for the full year 2016. Hotel occupancy was at a pretty healthy 91%. Can't get much higher than that.
And they conveniently left out people who are waiting out Avatar, Star Wars and Toy Story additions.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
Occupancy is up recently. Borrowed from @ParentsOf4 :
View attachment 190952

Not sure how much it impacts the parking situation given the occupancy levels were almost as high in 2007/2008 before the recession kicked in and also pre 9/11.


@contrariwise here's the occupancy chart showing the increase.
Obviously no such chart exists on the number of folks "cheating the system"

Anecdotally, as an AP and knowing several, many visit the resorts to shop, view fireworks and especially eat. Also anecdotally, being local, one of the first things I heard when moving here and showing interest in WDW was advice on how to "park for free." We didn't need to worry since we got APs.

IMO i don't think non-resort guests are filling the lots at alarming rates during normal periods. I do think they have a negative impact on parking during peak times and holidays.

BUT, also IMO, this rumored new fee is more about making a buck than any attempt at controlling parking.
 

Angel Ariel

Well-Known Member
If I search the internet, I can also find people who think the moon landing was fake.

No one is saying this never happens. Some of us don't think it happens enough to be the reason parking fees would be needed. I don't think it happening more now than it did before and Disney already has ways to deal with it when they need to. It's just an excuse for their next money grab.

This is where I'm at. The vast majority of people at WDW have pretty basic knowledge of the resort, even if they've done some research (which, IME, many "newbies" don't do nearly as much research as they should). Knowing that they can park at a resort for free and take the monorail into the park is something I feel pretty confident in saying the vast majority of WDW guests have no clue they could even try to do, much less would do in such numbers as to make it the reason that fees would suddenly be needed.
 

contrariwise

Well-Known Member
It's annoying that you're latching on to something that was said in combination with an abuse issue.
It's annoying that 5 minutes ago your whole argument was "I can't take one lady's word on resort availability being changed in recent years." "Occupancy levels have not risen"
And, again, it's annoying that after you were proved on that subject you are now trying to take it back to a different topic altogether, about people abusing parking.

So, how about you just stop?
How many times does someone have to ask you to move on from them? I agreed to disagree with you. No argument from me.
You twist things. It may very well be that you are right, but I don't take your opinion as "facts" until proven. And you don't want to get me started on what "annoying".

Ticketmaster fees are annoying, taxes are annoying, credit card fraud is annoying. Me not accepting your opinion based assertions as fact should fall pretty low on the totem pole.
 
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NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
You twist things. I have seen no evidence of an occupancy increase, much less an occupancy increase that would result in an appreciable parking change. None. I was not "proved on that subject" as you say. It may very well be that you are right, but I don't take your opinion as "facts" until proven. And you don't want to get me started on what "annoying".

Ticketmaster fees are annoying, taxes are annoying, credit card fraud is annoying. Me not accepting your opinion based assertions as fact should fall pretty low on the totem pole.

Chart showing the increase has been posted twice now. @ParentsOf4 is a reliable source.

ETA: unless you have the poster that brought it out blocked. You may not be seeing it.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
If I search the internet, I can also find people who think the moon landing was fake.

No one is saying this never happens. Some of us don't think it happens enough to be the reason parking fees would be needed. I don't think it's happening more now than it did before and Disney already has ways to deal with it when they need to. It's just an excuse for their next money grab.

I don't think it's a reason why parking fees would be added either. Which I clearly stated pages ago.
 

contrariwise

Well-Known Member
@contrariwise here's the occupancy chart showing the increase.
Obviously no such chart exists on the number of folks "cheating the system"

Anecdotally, as an AP and knowing several, many visit the resorts to shop, view fireworks and especially eat. Also anecdotally, being local, one of the first things I heard when moving here and showing interest in WDW was advice on how to "park for free." We didn't need to worry since we got APs.

IMO i don't think non-resort guests are filling the lots at alarming rates during normal periods. I do think they have a negative impact on parking during peak times and holidays.

BUT, also IMO, this rumored new fee is more about making a buck than any attempt at controlling parking.

Thank you for all of that. I agree with everything you said. I'm in favor of facts, not opinions masquerading as facts. I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement.

I will say, the most "holiday period" I have spent at WDW was Thanksgiving ... recently ... and we had no trouble parking at resorts for ADRs. Obviously, this is not dispositive of anything, but does color my way of thinking.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
Thank you for all of that. I agree with everything you said. I'm in favor of facts, not opinions masquerading as facts. I wholeheartedly agree with your last statement.

I will say, the most "holiday period" I have spent at WDW was Thanksgiving ... recently ... and we had no trouble parking at resorts for ADRs. Obviously, this is not dispositive of anything, but does color my way of thinking.

I think the parking situation varies by resort based on some reports from people on here. But since I've only stayed at the All-Stars, and have since only stayed off property during some weekend staycations, I have no direct experiences with it.
 

Laketravis

Well-Known Member

If you were to expand the scale of the Y axis the differences wouldn't be so glaring. I'm impressed at the consistency, though. Over a 15 year period occupancy has only varied by 15 points from the low of 76% in 2002 to the peak of 91% for 1Q17. That's amazing. But the 91% occupancy rate is certainly not sustainable. In fact, it's logistically challenged. Not to mention 1Q17 for Disney includes the major holiday period 10/1-12/31 so it's not reflective of an entire year as are the other percentages. It will be interesting to see how many of the upcoming resort expansions will stall if the economy changes direction, much like a now very popular resort sat half constructed for years.
 
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GoofGoof

Premium Member
If you were to expand the scale of the Y axis the differences wouldn't be so glaring. I'm impressed at the consistency, though. Over a 15 year period occupancy has only varied by 15 points from the low of 76% in 2002 to the peak of 91% for 1Q17. That's amazing. But the 91% occupancy rate is certainly not sustainable. In fact, it's logistically challenged. Not to mention 1Q17 for Disney includes the major holiday period 10/1-12/31 so it's not reflective of an entire year as are the other percentages. It will be interesting to see how many of the upcoming resort expansions will stall if the economy changes direction, much like a now very popular resort sat half constructed for years.
The number was 89% for the full year ending 9/30/16. Q1 is traditionally a high quarter. Over 90% is tough to manage logistically. It's hard to juggle all of those guests and you are probably leaving some profit on the table in really busy times when most of the rooms are sold out. They really need to expand more and the economy seems ripe for it. They always run the risk of a huge economic downturn like after 9/11. The profits are probably worth the risk. Universal hedges the risk of vacant hotel rooms some by having 3rd party hotel partners who would bare a portion of the burden if the economy tanks and the rooms are empty. I'm kinda surprised Disney doesn't do more of that since they seem to prefer that approach in other areas (see Disney Springs).
 

contrariwise

Well-Known Member
I don't think it's a reason why parking fees would be added either. Which I clearly stated pages ago.
BTW - I got an alert of a post where you said, "Thanks for the apology" or some such nonsense. I'm sure you've deleted it at this point as is your MO. You probably delete as many posts as you post. FWIW, I do not apologize. If you would post with any authority or backup, this needless back and forth would not be necessary. Where it's opinion, simply state that. Where you believe it's fact, state that. This will become much easier that way. I am not sorry for holding your feet to the fire and having you find (or be given) authority for things you state as fact.
 

21stamps

Well-Known Member
BTW - I got an alert of a post where you said, "Thanks for the apology" or some such nonsense. I'm sure you've deleted it at this point as is your MO. You probably delete as many posts as you post. FWIW, I do not apologize. If you would post with any authority or backup, this needless back and forth would not be necessary. Where it's opinion, simply state that. Where you believe it's fact, state that. This will become much easier that way. I am not sorry for holding your feet to the fire and having you find (or be given) authority for things you state as fact.

I will reply to this before I place you on ignore.

First, I said countless times that it was part of the earnings call..and said that someone could probably post the "evidence".
Secondly, kind of related to my previous sentence.. the quote included below doesn't sound like I was saying it was my opinion..

but, either way, I'm glad you've finally accepted facts. It's not a bad thing to admit when you're wrong..it's a little obsessive to go on quoting and quoting and quoting someone for pages after the evidence has been presented. Even after a few others said the same as me..you continued to quote me and quote me, no matter how many times I asked you to stop. And well after the report and graphs were presented. Presented- Twice. And then presented to you for a 3rd time before you actually took a moment to stop trying to provoke an argument..and actually read something.
No, this is where reading is important- I said the weeks that were typically less crowded are now more crowded.
The same way I said my guest was on the resort reservation and was the only car. That makes her a "resort guest". I think so anyway..if your name is on the reservation and you have a key card with your name on it.. I think maybe you might be considered a resort guest.. I could be wrong about that too though. :)

Resort occupancy levels have climbed the past few years. This isn't "one lady's experience" this is from actual reports. Maybe Disney is now building more hotels because they don't have the need for it? You don't need to believe that occupancy is up compared to years past. I've already said I agree to disagree.
Just let it go.
 
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