Realistic Imagineering - WDW 5th Gate Project

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
I enjoy reading all the other threads and competitions but the one thing that I always think about is feasibility. Budget, time constraints, and resources play a big factor and I wanted to make a concept as realistic as possible.

For example: the 5th Gate is a big question for the future at WDW. But before we go on saying it will have 50 rides and 20 E-tickets, I thought it would be fun to plan out how the park will evolve over the course of decades. The Magic Kingdom wasn't built with any of its "Mountain" rides. They all came with time.

To incorporate economics/finance with imaginative thinking would be interesting to see. I can set boundaries on funding and set limits to space in parks - which would force all of the imagineers to use critical thinking and creative judgment. Because to be honest, all of the ideas in these threads would be awesome, but they don't take into account the astronomical costs to construct.

If we combined feasibility with imagineering, I think we could make a very cool thread. What does everyone think? Let me know!
 

Zweiland

Well-Known Member
Yes, the mindset on this forum is very much "blue sky" and budgets aren't usually taken into consideration. Probably because there are way too many factors for the amateur Imagineer to deal with. Obviously in this thread you wouldn't be able to consider everything.

I like this thread idea, and I'll be following along and possibly participating if I have time.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
Yes, the mindset on this forum is very much "blue sky" and budgets aren't usually taken into consideration. Probably because there are way too many factors for the amateur Imagineer to deal with. Obviously in this thread you wouldn't be able to consider everything.

I like this thread idea, and I'll be following along and possibly participating if I have time.
Cool, sounds good to me.

To make the playing field balanced I would set each budget and lay out all of the financing options for everyone in the intro. I will try to make it as realistic as possible so imagineers will have think critically about how much they want to invest.

What I also thought would be neat is if we have a panel of judges. Each person judges all the other park ideas so we get an eclectic variety of input (and not just all from me)

I was thinking if others would be interested I would have Phase 1 be designing WDW's 5th gate, then move on to other international Disney properties such as Tokyo, Shanghai, Hong Kong, etc.

That would all be with time though, I just wanted to see people were interested in doing something a bit unique and fun:).
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
I would love to help out, I typically try to live in realism ask @englanddg. I got mad at a ride design because I wasn't sure how we would get fire/rescue close enough if we had to. I may not be able to commit a lot of time, but I would love to see where things go.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
I would love to help out, I typically try to live in realism ask @englanddg. I got mad at a ride design because I wasn't sure how we would get fire/rescue close enough if we had to. I may not be able to commit a lot of time, but I would love to see where things go.
I will try to make it as accessible time-wise to everyone as possible. Everything will be planned out for the topic so all that's left is use your creativity!
 

Voxel

President of Progress City
I will try to make it as accessible time-wise to everyone as possible. Everything will be planned out for the topic so all that's left is use your creativity!
I appreciate it, but its the nature of my work. I work full-time and attend graduate school and try to not end-up in the doghouse by spending alot of time with my GF, so I come and go alot. That being Said. I love this idea and would love to help out everywhere I can.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
I appreciate it, but its the nature of my work. I work full-time and attend graduate school and try to not end-up in the doghouse by spending alot of time with my GF, so I come and go alot. That being Said. I love this idea and would love to help out everywhere I can.
Don't worry, I know what you mean. @DisneyPrincess1993 and I are a couple and the only reason why we have some free time now is because our college in Boston is currently under about 3 feet of snow ;)
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
Alrighty then...anyway...

If everyone wants @DisneyPrincess1993 @Zweiland @MA Screamin' @Voxel @RMichael21 @tcool and any others who frequent the Imagineer boards, I will make this a discussion forum and move my actual idea into a separate forum with the rules/regulations, so everyone can post their stuff.

Invite anyone you want, it's really open to all who are interested. If any of you know members who'd like this, by all means let them know. This is the first time I'm trying this so if anyone has any suggestions I'd be happy to heard those as well. Thanks!
 

Zweiland

Well-Known Member
Alrighty then...anyway...

If everyone wants @DisneyPrincess1993 @Zweiland @MA Screamin' @Voxel @RMichael21 @tcool and any others who frequent the Imagineer boards, I will make this a discussion forum and move my actual idea into a separate forum with the rules/regulations, so everyone can post their stuff.

Invite anyone you want, it's really open to all who are interested. If any of you know members who'd like this, by all means let them know. This is the first time I'm trying this so if anyone has any suggestions I'd be happy to heard those as well. Thanks!
Hm, I'd just keep it as a thread here.
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
WALT DISNEY WORLD
5th GATE PROJECT


Before we all get started, I wanted to give some background information for all the participates. In order to try and make this competition as authentic as possible, we are going to use the official Reedy Creek Improvement District Comprehensive Plan:
(More info: http://www.rcid.org/Portals/0/Documents/Comprehensive_Plan/Introduction.pdf)

The RCID Comprehensive Plan details the extent to which land can be build in Walt Disney World.
Green = unstainable land. Yellow = semi-sustainable land. Red = sustainable land.

LandUse1.jpg


Where this competition is going to focus is on the sustainable land to the right of the Richard Petty Driving Experience (also where the number 13 is)

I did some measurements. The Magic Kingdom has a perimeter (including maintenance areas/ride facilities/transportation hubs) That fits within the sustainable land that I've singled out above. Here's a better look at it in Google Earth...

wdw 5th gate.JPG

The only component of the MK that does not fit in this area is the parking at the TTC. Parking is something we have to consider when building our park because for every area of land you build, you have to have enough parking to accommodate it. If you notice on the RCID plan there are sustainable areas to the sides of the theme park area outlined in the Google Earth image, so you all can get creative with where you place the parking.

TIME AND CONSTRUCTION COST

imagineering-disney_epcot-center-construction-3.jpg

EPCOT took 3 years to complete, and at the time (1979) was the largest construction project on Earth. It cost approximately 1.4 Billion dollars (in the late 70s) so today I would guess the cost would be well over 3 Billion. Since EPCOT is about twice the size of our plot, I'm going to give each contestant a budget of:

$1.5 BILLION DOLLARS

As I said in the opening post, parks are not built all at once. They build over the years to what they are today. Take a look at the Magic Kingdom opening day map in 1971.

40thMap2.jpg

About 43 years later, here's what it looks like:

magic-kingdom-map.png


Your park will change over time and evolve. It won't have a bunch of rides to begin with. Disney MGM Studios opened with 2 rides. So it's not implausible to say that your first round in this competition will only have maybe 5 rides.

And that's how I want this to go. Each Phase of our friendly competition will be 5 years later in your park's history. It will show what has changed in the parks, have you replaced anything, added anything? Maybe changed the layout a bit? Any transportation updates? How about restaurants?

But since I would like this to try and be realistic, there are costs to everything.

Here's a rundown of some of the most expensive attractions that have been built just for perspective:
Test Track: 300 Million
Tower of Terror (Paris): 240 Million
Radiator Springs Racers: 200 Million
Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey: 150 Million
Tower of Terror: 140 Million

So when we are budgeting our $1.5 Billion Dollars here's a few TIPS to keep in mind:
1) Infrastructure is expensive. Figure at least $400-600 Million for transportation, roads, parking, maintenance workers, employee salary.
2) You need an icon..which could be a ride or structure or both...either way the higher the building the higher the cost.
3) For the sake of this competition, here are a couple average costs: Average costs for a restaurant (20-40 million). Average cost per shop (20 million). Average cost per restroom (10 million) Average cost per quick service (20 million). Average cost per Firework show (20-30 million) Average cost per parade (50 million) Anything else you all want an average price on let me know.
4) Guest Surveys - so this is where I thought we'd get creative. Each one of you will send out a guest survey to the other contestants. Ranking what rides you like, what lands are best, where to improve. From those answers, each contestant could design their park expansions based on these guest surveys. Also, the answers to the guest surveys will determine the expansion budget I give out to each contestant. If guest surveys are high, you get a lower budget. If guests surveys are lower, you'll get more money to expand. Just like in the real world. Why did DCA get rebuilt? Guests complained.
5) Let's stick to the circumstances we have, such as... NO MARVEL. It cannot be built in Florida therefore it won't be built here. But...maybe in 20 years something in the competition might change!

INSTRUCTIONS FOR PHASE 1 - OPENING DAY 2018

1) Design your park using the $2 Billion Dollar Budget in the allocated area
2) Show how much you spent for: Infrastructure, Rides, Restaurants/Shops, Entertainment
3) An aerial view of your park (other images/videos/audio are good too!)
4) Create a 10 Question Guest Survey about your park. (more details to come)

Alrighty then...Any questions please feel free to respond. Thanks and enjoy!​




 
Last edited:

Voxel

President of Progress City
WALT DISNEY WORLD
5th GATE PROJECT


Before we all get started, I wanted to give some background information for all the participates. In order to try and make this competition as authentic as possible, we are going to use the official Reedy Creek Improvement District Comprehensive Plan:
(More info: http://www.rcid.org/Portals/0/Documents/Comprehensive_Plan/Introduction.pdf)

The RCID Comprehensive Plan details the extent to which land can be build in Walt Disney World.
Green = unstainable land. Yellow = semi-sustainable land. Red = sustainable land.

LandUse1.jpg


Where this competition is going to focus is on the sustainable land to the right of the Richard Petty Driving Experience (also where the number 13 is)

I did some measurements. The Magic Kingdom has a perimeter (including maintenance areas/ride facilities/transportation hubs) That fits within the sustainable land that I've singled out above. Here's a better look at it in Google Earth...

View attachment 82506
The only component of the MK that does not fit in this area is the parking at the TTC. Parking is something we have to consider when building our park because for every area of land you build, you have to have enough parking to accommodate it. If you notice on the RCID plan there are sustainable areas to the sides of the theme park area outlined in the Google Earth image, so you all can get creative with where you place the parking.

TIME AND CONSTRUCTION COST

imagineering-disney_epcot-center-construction-3.jpg

EPCOT took 3 years to complete, and at the time (1979) was the largest construction project on Earth. It cost approximately 1.4 Billion dollars (in the late 70s) so today I would guess the cost would be well over 3 Billion. Since EPCOT is about twice the size of our plot, I'm going to give each contestant a budget of:

$1.5 BILLION DOLLARS

As I said in the opening post, parks are not built all at once. They build over the years to what they are today. Take a look at the Magic Kingdom opening day map in 1971.

40thMap2.jpg

About 43 years later, here's what it looks like:

magic-kingdom-map.png


Your park will change over time and evolve. It won't have a bunch of rides to begin with. Disney MGM Studios opened with 2 rides. So it's not implausible to say that your first round in this competition will only have maybe 5 rides.

And that's how I want this to go. Each Phase of our friendly competition will be 5 years later in your park's history. It will show what has changed in the parks, have you replaced anything, added anything? Maybe changed the layout a bit? Any transportation updates? How about restaurants?

But since I would like this to try and be realistic, there are costs to everything.

Here's a rundown of some of the most expensive attractions that have been built just for perspective:
Test Track: 300 Million
Tower of Terror (Paris): 240 Million
Radiator Springs Racers: 200 Million
Harry Potter and the Forbidden Journey: 150 Million
Tower of Terror: 140 Million

So when we are budgeting our $1.5 Billion Dollars here's a few TIPS to keep in mind:
1) Infrastructure is expensive. Figure at least $400-600 Million for transportation, roads, parking, maintenance workers, employee salary.
2) You need an icon..which could be a ride or structure or both...either way the higher the building the higher the cost.
3) For the sake of this competition, here are a couple average costs: Average costs for a restaurant (20-40 million). Average cost per shop (20 million). Average cost per restroom (10 million) Average cost per quick service (20 million). Average cost per Firework show (20-30 million) Average cost per parade (50 million) Anything else you all want an average price on let me know.
4) Guest Surveys - so this is where I thought we'd get creative. Each one of you will send out a guest survey to the other contestants. Ranking what rides you like, what lands are best, where to improve. From those answers, each contestant could design their park expansions based on these guest surveys. Also, the answers to the guest surveys will determine the expansion budget I give out to each contestant. If guest surveys are high, you get a lower budget. If guests surveys are lower, you'll get more money to expand. Just like in the real world. Why did DCA get rebuilt? Guests complained.
5) Let's stick to the circumstances we have, such as... NO MARVEL. It cannot be built in Florida therefore it won't be built here. But...maybe in 20 years something in the competition might change!

INSTRUCTIONS FOR PHASE 1 - OPENING DAY 2018

1) Design your park using the $1.5 Billion Dollar Budget in the allocated area
2) Show how much you spent for: Infrastructure, Rides, Restaurants/Shops, Entertainment
3) An aerial view of your park (other images/videos/audio are good too!)

Alrighty then...Any questions please feel free to respond. Thanks and enjoy!​




I question the 1.5 billion budget. Recent Disney parks well exceed that budget. DisneySea ran a construction cost of roughly 3.5~4 billion while Disneyland shanghais is running a cost extending 4 billion possibly 5 billion. It's cost close to 1.5 billion to fix California adventures and were expecting to see that amount or more to fix Hollywood studios
 

spacemt354

Chili's
Original Poster
I question the 1.5 billion budget. Recent Disney parks well exceed that budget. DisneySea ran a construction cost of roughly 3.5~4 billion while Disneyland shanghais is running a cost extending 4 billion possibly 5 billion. It's cost close to 1.5 billion to fix California adventures and were expecting to see that amount or more to fix Hollywood studios
I'd rather not get into the Shanghai 5.5 Billion range. Unless that's what people want. I was thinking about keeping it low to focus on simple stuff - like ride/maintenance cost. There are a lot of variable as to why Shanghai is over budget (construction delays, contracts, etc) I would rather stick to the Econ 101 scenario of "everything is perfect" and "nothing ever goes over budget"

If I made it 5 billion we would see like 13 Tower of Terrors at 140 million each which was what I was trying to avoid.

Wait, is this a competition? I thought it was going to be open brainstorming.

If it's a comp you might want to elaborate on the rules, but it looks very interesting! I wish I had more time to participate right now.

More of a friendly competition. People reply when they're ready. I was just curious what everyone would come up with. I was also curious about the interest level.

What rules would you like elaborated?
 

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