OS: Fire department serving Disney in talks to drop special operations

[mgf]

This is a cost of doing business as one of the largest (private) tourist destinations in the world. The fact this is on the table during a labor dispute (not a budget hearing) means this is entirely about cutting worker training and compensation and not a true evaluation of the merit of the program.

 

[lazyboy97o]

But does anyone really think Disney cares about safety (beyond the basics)? They do just enough to keep the lawyers away should the poop hit the fan, e.g., entrance bag checks. The image is more important than the reality.

Park operations, maintenance and security are not the same thing as the Improvement District, whose entire existence is pretty much based around safety.

 

[Wildflower]

All I know is that every year the fire department sends a bunch of guys over to our company for a thorough tour and walk through. This is beyond the level of just a safety inspection, sometimes they have sent enough crew over they have to bring the trucks in case of an alarm and needed hasty exit.

And yes, we do have our own onsite emergency response team as well so haz mat spills, confined space rescues, etc are handled by onsite first responders as well as local fire rescue.

THIS. It's part of a fire department's "pre-fire plan" for all of the commercial units within their jurisdiction. They will initiate physical inspections utilizing firemen, inspectors or combinations thereof. The physical inspections will then be translated onto an electronic system which will pull all of the relevant information via address in case of an emergency...this includes builidng schematics as well as locations of potential hazards and so on(utility rooms, stoves and the like that are noted during the visits). Subsequent visits will verify and/or update said database. As an aside, this does NOT apply to personal properties...FDs are not allowed there, but they are allowed on rental units in FL. *My dad works as the logistics person for a fire department in a smaller city.

 

[Admiral01]

That's why the entire perimeter of the property should have anti-aircraft missile batteries. After all, the September 11 attacks were carried out with airplanes. Is there anyone on property capable of shooting down multiple passenger jets on suicide missions to Space Mountain? Cost be damned, won't somebody think of the children?

That is not a valid argument. Building collapse and chemical spills are skills that are necessary, especially with the unique designs and operations of many buildings around property.

 

[TheScreed]

That is not a valid argument. Building collapse and chemical spills are skills that are necessary, especially with the unique designs and operations of many buildings around property.

How do "building collapse" and "chemical spills" make my argument invalid. Both of those things occurred on September 11th. Haven't you seen the videos?

But this time we will be ready. There would have been no building collapses and no spills other than jet fuel if those hijacked planes had been shot down. It happened once, it can happen again, and the only thing that can stop it is a ring of AA missiles to form a perimeter defense around the property. No expense is too great in the name of safety, I can't believe Disney won't do this! We are all in grave danger!

 

[DVCOwner]

I think that many local governments set up these type of teams after 9-11. This may have been an over reaction to the situation. This service can easily be provided by mutual aid agreements with other local governments.

 

[ford91exploder]

I know its an open discussion and all, but are any of us really capable of understanding the risk and actual need here for this?

I'm all for safety, and I agree that whenever possible, money should be invested in people, equipement and processes to ensure safety and continuity of operations. In fact, I'm responsible for my company's Disaster Recovery plan, and its part of my job responsibility to plan for scenarios and how the business will continue should one occur. Unfortunatly, part of my planning and preparation also has to take into account cost vs risk. In other words, how big of a risk does a specific type of disaster pose for our business and how much should we spend or plan to prepare for it, in case it were to become reality. The bigger the risk, (and potential) the more the company is willing to spend. But, even with the biggest risks, the company is only willing to invest so much toward preparation. So, as much as I would like for them to spend more, knowing full well that it will make a difference IF something happens, there's only so much they will support. At some point the decision is made that the risk isn't THAT big that they will spend as much as suggested. They choose, like many, to take a gamble, and hope the ods stay favorable.

WIth that said, I could go either way on this. I think it's great to have that extra "insurance", especially in a place like WDW, where there are so many people from so many places in constant rotation and the risk of something catastrophic or extremely dangerous in nature would seem higher than other cities of similar population size. Dare I say, there is the terrorist threat as well, which is what prompted RCID to create the SOAR team. But, then I think about the safety record of WDW over the past 44 years and realize that they actually have a much, MUCH better record than a city of equal population. So, it would seem that they don't need it.

Well, Just make sure you DOCUMENT the stuff for the DR plan that management will not 'pay for' because when your business is a smoking crater they are coming after YOU because 'you did not adequately advise them of the risks in not implementing this part of the plan',

Yes I've been the DR officer and I've even done a switch to the 'warm site' after a fire in the data center. There was a LOT management did not want to pay for - but they were glad they did AFTER the fire (caused by a faulty UPS contactor) but I said these were necessary and if you don't want them you need to sign off on not wanting them.

Management was certainly happy that day, No data was lost and operations continued and they were praised for their 'foresight' as for me well it's my yob man to make sure no permanent impact came from a bad event.

 

[ford91exploder]

I find it interesting that the largest safety advocate at RCID dies and immediately they want to get rid of the Special Operations people.

They cost MONEY and we can't spend money on something useless like a Special Operations team at the largest terrorist target in the US can we...

It's because of the special nature of the business that there is a RCFD, Many large businesses have their own fire departments because of the special nature of the business

 

[ford91exploder]

Disney has always had a hand in crafting fire safety codes and being on the cutting edge. Bay Lake City Manager and Board of Supervisors member Tom Moses passed away last week.

From the National Fire Protection Association

• Mr. Moses came to RCID in 1969 as construction on the Magic Kingdom was getting underway. My favorite story from Mr. Moses was that he wasn’t quite sure what was in mind for the massive plots of land in central Florida that Disney had purchased. He was a healthy skeptic - and it took the convincing of none other than Roy Disney (Walt Disney’s older brother) to convince Tom to come on board and have a say in what was about to transpire. Not only did he have a voice in these discussions, he helped set the policy, culture and tone that is still a hallmark and sets a high bar for safety at WDW.
  
  In his role with the District in those early days, Mr. Moses oversaw innovations that are a bit more main stream today. Among those ideals were the absolute importance of putting automatic sprinkler systems into every building - no matter the size. He was overseeing performance based design before we had a name for it. He was managing cutting edge modular design and construction techniques that were used at the Contemporary Resort. In short, he embraced the innovative spirit that Disney had in 1969 with a focus on safety- something that continues in 2015

Disney has always been at the forefront and at the cutting edge of fire safety. To see them reduce their capacity during a time of enormous growth and continued occupancy levels makes no sense. The RCID has approx. 120,000-150,000 people on site at any given moment, just like a small city. They need this technical expertise and capability. Disney is going to continue to grow and to ignore specialized complex safety is IMO rather asinine.

In the event of something bad happening the exec's will simply deploy the golden 'Chutes and leave the CM's with the aftermath (ending of careers etc ad nauseum)

 

[PhotoDave219]

Hazardous materials? Like what? No industrial area or anything like that. A sugar refinery blew up near me and it shook the ground 30 miles away. We also have chemical storage and manufacturing so you do need some specialized firemen but in most cases there isn't anything really hazardous anywhere in sight. We also have a long history with the military as in 400 or 500 years and on occasion something washes up on a beach or is dug up that can be hazardous. So the local police, firemen etc. are trained to look out for that kind of stuff with the military sending a team to depose of it if needed. There is a need in my area for some specialized personal but they are rarely needed.

I just don't see what would be on WDW property that is very hazardous? Unless the rumor of the missile silos is true.

Do you have any idea how many nasty and hazardous fluids & chemicals are on property, let alone with just the laundry services? Plus all the oils and hydrolic fluids that go into all the attractions? Or the chlorine/bromide that goes into water purification? Plus not to mention everything with transportation.

All sorts of nasty And hazardous chemicals everywhere.

I'd rather have the experts in house to be able to handle the situation and have the training to assess the situation and handle it properly rather than having to call Orange County, have them blow it out of proportion and then send a bill for being called out.

 

[SYRIK2000]

Do you have any idea how many nasty and hazardous fluids & chemicals are on property, let alone with just the laundry services? Plus all the oils and hydrolic fluids that go into all the attractions? Or the chlorine/bromide that goes into water purification? Plus not to mention everything with transportation.

All sorts of nasty And hazardous chemicals everywhere.

I'd rather have the experts in house to be able to handle the situation and have the training to assess the situation and handle it properly rather than having to call Orange County, have them blow it out of proportion and then send a bill for being called out.

I bet they buy cleaning solutions that are concentrated as well. And I don't know, the fireworks may be hazardous to some degree.

 

[PhotoDave219]

I bet they buy cleaning solutions that are concentrated as well. And I don't know, the fireworks may be hazardous to some degree.

How the hell did I forget about the fireworks?!? That would be at the top of the list....

 

[GrumpyFan]

I'd rather have the experts in house to be able to handle the situation and have the training to assess the situation and handle it properly rather than having to call Orange County, have them blow it out of proportion and then send a bill for being called out.

Sure, having them "in house" might be quicker and more convenient, but depending on how many times they've had to handle this in the last 10-15 years, it may be more cost effective to have someone else handle it. IF they (Orange County) can handle it efficiently and in an adequate amount of time.

 

[GrumpyFan]

How the hell did I forget about the fireworks?!? That would be at the top of the list....

I would think fireworks would be their own special team outside of the one being debated. Considering how much pyro WDW uses on a daily basis, this would surely not be part of the "outsourcing" equation (assumed).

 

[SYRIK2000]

Because it hasn't happened in the last 10 - 15 years does not mean it won't happen today. You need to be prepared. Response time is everything, I want the firefighters onsite able to handle it and not be standing there waiting for OC to arrive.

EDIT: Also keep in mind Reedy Creek will respond first and determine it is a special case then have to call a second alarm to OC's special team. So response time would be very slow.

 

[SYRIK2000]

To me this is not an area WDW should nickel and dime. They should do the special team training/certification and do the advanced training for all the fire fighters.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Why doesn't the EPCOT Build Code require everything to have a three hour fire rating?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

But does anyone really think Disney cares about safety (beyond the basics)? They do just enough to keep the lawyers away should the poop hit the fan, e.g., entrance bag checks. The image is more important than the reality.

I think that's true of most safety measures? I have to be careful to avoid being political but most reactionary safety measures (private and public) haven't actually made us safer, it's all about image and appeasing the masses.

 

[jannpell]

What resort/elevator if I may ask?

Bay Lake Towers - Center Elevator

 

[PhotoDave219]

That is run of the mill stuff. Every water plant has chemicals, hydraulics are everywhere. You don't need to have some super team hanging around waiting for that 50 gallons of hydraulic fluid to spill somewhere. It's a waste of money. Same with laundry services they are everywhere in my area we have many large hotels that do their own laundry and many don't with companies who do laundry as a business. No big deal. Every city has all that. Real chemicals are like what they use in the paper mills also by me, tens of thousands of gallons of very toxic bleaching agents etc. Those need to be taken into account and plan has to be in place to hand a large accident. We have teams trained for that kind of stuff and it does happen once in a while.

It goes back to the NSA thing, you can over prepare yourself to the point where you are simply lighting money on fire and it could be used for a greater benefit. Why doesn't Disney have a nuclear clean up team stationed there? What if there is a dirt bomb attack? Why doesn't Disney have a standing private army of 10,000 troops? WDW could very easily be over run by a terrorist army. The entire property should be ringed with the private army with listening/watch posts all along the edge of the property. I've been places that are like that BTW. The list goes on and on on what could be put in and around WDW for safety reasons.

Doesn't matter you probably are wealthy and careless about taxes or prices. I don't care either, doesn't really effect me but I do see many small cities going BK over all this over protection which in the end kills the common man. I was recently in up state NY where a city decided not to turn the street lights on any more because they couldn't afford the electric bill. It was odd to see street lights that don't come on. Big deal? No. I bet years ago they wanted every safety device known to man because it always better safe then sorry, now their BK with a declining population. Real business attractor when you can't keep your street lights on? I'm sure that place is on the up swing.

Clearly you're one of those people that wants to argue everything and split every hair.

Now join the others in the iggy bin....