OS: Confederate Flag Removed from Epcot

[FerretAfros]

The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the Confederate flag hanging in the American Adventure's Hall of Flags has been quietly removed:

The resort has removed a version of the Confederate banner from a flag display in Epcot's American Adventure. Disney acknowledged it took down the flag recently but would not comment further.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...nfederate-flag-epcot-down-20150708-story.html

Although there's certainly a strong argument for not flying the flag over places like a statehouse, I think that it's entirely appropriate in a historical setting, like a museum or the collection of various historical flags at Epcot. Since the article didn't specify, I would assume that it is still represented onscreen during the Two Brothers segment, just like it always has (along with Lance and Tiger in the finale). If we can't learn from the past, we're doomed to repeat it; this isn't something we should celebrate, but we also shouldn't pretend that it never happened

I know there's a General Discussion thread discussing the possibilities of this, but this is confirmed news about it. Feel free to move/combine as necessary

 

[Eeyore]

The Orlando Sentinel is reporting that the Confederate flag hanging in the American Adventure's Hall of Flags has been quietly removed:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/busi...nfederate-flag-epcot-down-20150708-story.html

Although there's certainly a strong argument for not flying the flag over places like a statehouse, I think that it's entirely appropriate in a historical setting, like a museum or the collection of various historical flags at Epcot. Since the article didn't specify, I would assume that it is still represented onscreen during the Two Brothers segment, just like it always has (along with Lance and Tiger in the finale). If we can't learn from the past, we're doomed to repeat it; this isn't something we should celebrate, but we also shouldn't pretend that it never happened

I know there's a General Discussion thread discussing the possibilities of this, but this is confirmed news about it. Feel free to move/combine as necessary

I agree with you but Epcot isn't a museum. Disney is an entertainment company and while many of us here look at Epcot as an educational opportunity I don't think the general public does anymore. I can understand them being cautious.

Please proceed thoughtfully everyone

 

[englanddg]

From the article

"I think in this day and age we shouldn't be promoting a part of our history we're not proud of," she said.

Context is key. It isn't promoting, it's reflecting, just like the show's design and purpose. It isn't as if you go inside and see Bubba's Rip Rangling Muddin' Adventure where you, the rider, get to experience the "thrill of chasin' down them dirty minoritees!"

Those who refuse to acknowledge the past are doomed to repeat it.

Much of my grandmother's extended family was forcibly removed from their homes and driven to reservations in a strange new part of the country stolen, er, I'm sorry, "bardered/sold" from rival tribes they never had even encountered. All this happened nearly 200 years ago. It was a terribly sad portion of our history, and one of which we should not be proud of as a country. She and some of my cousins eventually returned to their "homeland", thankfully. Oh, and the people who did this? Well, they flew this flag.

And then there were those of Japanese descent who were lawfully incarcerated by people who pledged to this flag.

These are not proud moments in our history. Ones we shouldn't "promote", to quote the dummy from Connecticut quoted in the article.

I suppose we should remove them, too.

Right?

Right?!?!

I guess the only true appropriate measure for Disney to do, rather than having an amazingly produced, thought provoking and touching presentation that shows, in a very relatable way, that our country wasn't handed to us, but rather was a result of blood, sweat, tears, and yes...regret, is to replace it with Frozen. Because, otherwise, people and their sensitivities may be offended.

Grow the heck up.

 

[TeriofTerror]

They should definitely leave it in the "Two Brothers" segment. It can serve as a reminder that the Confederacy lost, and after 150 years it may just be time to accept it and move on.

 

[englanddg]

They should definitely leave it in the "Two Brothers" segment. It can serve as a reminder that the Confederacy lost, and after 150 years it may just be time to accept it and move on.

It's far more than that. The Civil War, and the motivations behind it, are dreadfully complex. Especially when one delves into the personal motivations of many of those involved, rather than the larger societal and political ones.

The only "facts" that exist are that it was the bloodiest, and most heart wrenching, conflict we, as a Nation, have ever fought. And "Two Brothers" represents that perfectly.

That said, I do agree, it is time to accept it and move on. In fact, that time came and went about 150 years ago when pen hit paper at Appomattox Courthouse. But, the way to do that isn't whitewashing (oh wait, is that term racist?) history and trying to shield our children (or ourselves) from the past. Rather, it's about understanding it, reflecting upon it, and reaching a reasoned conclusion that what happened was for the greater good (because, it was).

 

[Eeyore]

From the article

"I think in this day and age we shouldn't be promoting a part of our history we're not proud of," she said.

Context is key. It isn't promoting, it's reflecting, just like the show's design and purpose. It isn't as if you go inside and see Bubba's Rip Rangling Muddin' Adventure where you, the rider, get to experience the "thrill of chasin' down them dirty minoritees!"

Those who refuse to acknowledge the past are doomed to repeat it.

Much of my grandmother's extended family was forcibly removed from their homes and driven to reservations in a strange new part of the country stolen, er, I'm sorry, "bardered/sold" from rival tribes they never had even encountered. All this happened nearly 200 years ago. It was a terribly sad portion of our history, and one of which we should not be proud of as a country. She and some of my cousins eventually returned to their "homeland", thankfully. Oh, and the people who did this? Well, they flew this flag.

And then there were those of Japanese descent who were lawfully incarcerated by people who pledged to this flag.

These are not proud moments in our history. Ones we shouldn't "promote", to quote the dummy from Connecticut quoted in the article.

I suppose we should remove them, too.

Right?

Right?!?!

I guess the only true appropriate measure for Disney to do, rather than having an amazingly produced, thought provoking and touching presentation that shows, in a very relatable way, that our country wasn't handed to us, but rather was a result of blood, sweat, tears, and yes...regret, is to replace it with Frozen. Because, otherwise, people and their sensitivities may be offended.

Grow the heck up.

I certainly agree with your sentiment and the fact that that quote from the article is ridiculous but we're talking about a theme park here. It's a place where people go to escape the real world and bad things. The Germany pavilion doesn't have any mention of the holocaust and there's no mention of communism in China. The world showcase is essentially a highlight reel. As a population it's our responsibility to remember and discuss our history both good and bad. It's not Disney's responsibility to educate us they are there to entertain. The general population, in my opinion, look at Epcot as a very beautiful and cultural food court not a place to learn about history. Disney need to be very careful not to offend people.

 

[englanddg]

I certainly agree with your sentiment and the fact that that quote from the article is ridiculous but we're talking about a theme park here. It's a place where people go to escape the real world and bad things. The Germany pavilion doesn't have any mention of the holocaust and there's no mention of communism in China. The world showcase is essentially a highlight reel. As a population it's our responsibility to remember and discuss our history both good and bad it's no Disney's responsibility to educate us they are there to entertain. The general population, in my opinion, look at Epcot as a very beautiful and cultural food court not a place to learn about history. Disney need to be very careful not to offend people.

Then they should never have built a patriotic pavilion to begin with. The pavilion as a whole already glazes over huge portions of our history, and barely covers US "pre-history" in a way that is even close to accurate.

I don't care one whit that Disney removed the flag, and I do understand WHY they did it.

But that said, it is a poor reflection of our current state as a society if why allow ourselves to be offended without context, as is now too often the case. As I noted, there are plenty of people who can be offended (and probably are) that there is an "American centric" pavilion in the first place, and there are other exhibits in that hall that one can, if they choose to, find offensive.

That's the problem. People choosing to be offended.

 

[G00fyDad]

No one ever had a reason to remove the flags until the media told them to do so. Sheeple.

 

[ChrisFL]

I certainly agree with your sentiment and the fact that that quote from the article is ridiculous but we're talking about a theme park here. It's a place where people go to escape the real world and bad things. The Germany pavilion doesn't have any mention of the holocaust and there's no mention of communism in China. The world showcase is essentially a highlight reel. As a population it's our responsibility to remember and discuss our history both good and bad. It's not Disney's responsibility to educate us they are there to entertain. The general population, in my opinion, look at Epcot as a very beautiful and cultural food court not a place to learn about history. Disney need to be very careful not to offend people.

I disagree. EPCOT was always designed to be about education AND entertainment. If not, why would the rest of the American Adventure discuss factual history? Why not just have a silly musical show or something?

Also, there isn't mention of the WORD Communism in China, but there's definitely a lot of footage from Tiananmen Square with communist symbolism all around. Germany is understandable, and they don't really have any historical attractions, just shops and a restaurant.

 

[Matt_Black]

To put things in context, Germany forbids displaying of the swastika except in historical or artistic contexts. Neo-nazis instead wear the Confederate Flag.

The flag was revived in the middle of the 20th Century solely as a response to the Civil Rights Movement. It is very much a symbol of institutionalized racism and claiming otherwise is, at best, ignorance of American history.

 

[Rinx]

I feel Disney may have made this move to avoid potential trouble. Something along the lines of, "Let's just take it down before somebody says something." I can understand that. Some people could twist it for the sake of argument and say something ridiculous about how racist the company is and then the media will blow it up creating a firestorm.

 

[Matt_Black]

I feel Disney may have made this move to avoid potential trouble. Something along the lines of, "Let's just take it down before somebody says something." I can understand that. Some people could twist it for the sake of argument and say something ridiculous about how racist the company is and then the media will blow it up creating a firestorm.

Another thing- they may be trying to avoid potential vandalism from people looking to remove it themselves. There have been several reported thefts of Confederate flags from the homes of people still displaying them.

 

[unkadug]

There is absolutely no way this can be intelligently discussed without breaking the forum's rules of no politics.

The whole thing is political as were the reasons for the flags very existence.

 

[Eeyore]

There is absolutely no way this can be intelligently discussed without breaking the forum's rules of no politics.

The whole thing is political as were the reasons for the flags very existence.

Yes, that's true but it is topical. We'll give it a shot and see how it goes.

 

[Eeyore]

I disagree. EPCOT was always designed to be about education AND entertainment. If not, why would the rest of the American Adventure discuss factual history? Why not just have a silly musical show or something?.

That is how Epcot was designed I agree. I just don't think that's how it's looked at today by your average guest or even the company for that matter.

 

[JennSmith]

Personally being from Chicago, I don't care about the Confederate flag. In my experience the whole time growing up in Chicago, the CF was considered to be a sign of racism. Then 9 years ago we moved to Lexington KY. Now I know Lex isn't really the "deep south" but down here, I have witnessed it be more of a symbol of southern pride. Oddly enough I have even experienced some not so nice behavior directed towards me because I am a yankee...it's so weird. Anyway, I can and have seen it from both sides...racism and just southern pride. However, like a previous poster has stated, Epcot is an amusement park and not a museum. The flag is a part of our country's history that should not be ignored but at an amusement park, I would err on the side of not wanting to offend anyone. My grandma had a "mammy" cookie jar that she loved, (I don't know why she loved it...she wasn't racist but there was just something about it she loved). She is long gone now and for a very short time I had the cookie jar in my kitchen on top of my cabinets. To me it was just because she loved it and I loved her so much. I ended up taking it down fairly quickly though. Even though I meant no harm by it, I would never have wanted to hurt any of mine or my children's friends had they come over and seen it. It's all about perspective...just because we don't mean to hurt or offend doesn't mean that no one will be hurt or offended and who wants to live life constantly having to explain that you didn't mean to hurt anyone?

 

[englanddg]

There is absolutely no way this can be intelligently discussed without breaking the forum's rules of no politics.

The whole thing is political as were the reasons for the flags very existence.

There are ways to intelligently discuss it without getting overtly political. The issue is that most people don't wish to do so, as their emotional reaction to it clouds any reasonable thought. It would have been political in the 1800s. Today? It is a matter of History.

Again, context is key. It isn't just that the flag is deplayed, it's HOW it is presented and WHY. It certainly doesn't belong on a state flag or flying over a state capital, because of context. But, in a pavilion like American Adventure, with the CONTEXT, it's a rather silly move (but I do grant wholly understandable) to remove it.

Otherwise, one could likewise conclude that the entire pavilion is political in nature. It praises and reveals certain mindsets and historical results which were highly political...at the time.

But, that's the key, at...the...time.

Like I said, they may as well just bulldoze the entire thing and replace it with Arendelle, because it's obvious that the country is moving towards a very juvenile version of it's history. Rather than using the past as a basis to teach ethics and morality, instead we wish to ignore it, and that is sad.

I wonder if they had displayed the first version of the Confederate Flag, which flew for the majority of the life of the Confederacy, instead of the final one adopted later, if people would even notice or care?

Somehow I doubt it.

 

[Nemo14]

I think they're just trying to avoid any negative publicity.


Besides they have to make room for that Arrendale flag....

 

[unkadug]

I think they're just trying to avoid any negative publicity.


Besides they have to make room for that Arrendale flag....

Are those turkey legs on those banners?

 

[englanddg]

Are those turkey legs on those banners?

I think you're right!