New Maintenance Fees for 2014

[GoofGoof]

I got the e-mail today about the annual DVC meeting with the agenda and budgets. Looks like BLT is going from $4.50 to $4.7846 or a 6.3% increase over last year. This is getting a little concerning since the last 2 years had steep increases as well. I will try to pull together a breakdown of points by category and see where the increases are and post it here. Can any other owners verify the increases at other resorts?

 

[GoofGoof]

Here is the breakdown of fees at BLT:

 

[GoofGoof]

Sorry, couldn't figure out how to post a spreadsheet without screwing up the columns. After looking at the numbers it looks like the biggest driver is the front desk fees. Up 30% from last year and almost 50% of the total increase. I am assuming this is the result of the first full year with a dedicated BLT check-in desk. If that is the case it will be a 1 time jump in fees since the full year cost of the front desk will be built in now year over year. If you back out the front desk increase the rest of the fees are up about 3.2% which seems more in line with the historic DVC run rate. Housekeeping, which had the biggest bump up last year, was actually slightly down this year. I guess there was some truth to the explanation that the bump up last year was partially related to new bedding purchased last year. Member activities also had a large percentage increase. I wonder if they are planning some new offerings for next year. I doubt the CMs got 30% raises this year

 

[DVC Mike]

BLT's new rate of 4.7846 is an annual increase of 6.39%, and a 3 yr compounded rate of 7.15%

 

[ParentsOf4]

2014 Maintenance Fees (MF) for all the resorts:

• BLT @ 4.7846, up 6.4%
• AKV @ 5.9748, up 5.3%
• OKW @ 5.5411, up 3.7%
• BWV @ 6.0067, up 2.8%
• BCV @ 5.7904, up 2.6%
• VWL @ 5.9265, up 2.3%
• SSR @ 4.9148, up 2.1%

Combined, the average increase is 3.6%.

However, the average is skewed by BLT. Exclude BLT and MF are up 3.1%, in line with historical averages before the introduction of BLT.

Considering BLT is a tower with small grounds, an almost nothing lobby, and a basic pool, the increases over the last 4 years just don't seem right. I'm beginning to wonder if the introductory MF was jiggered and Disney has been adjusting BLT rates over the last few years to bring it in line where actual costs are.

 

[GoofGoof]

2014 Maintenance Fees (MF) for all the resorts:

• BLT @ 4.7846, up 6.4%
• AKV @ 5.9748, up 5.3%
• OKW @ 5.5411, up 3.7%
• BWV @ 6.0067, up 2.8%
• BCV @ 5.7904, up 2.6%
• VWL @ 5.9265, up 2.3%
• SSR @ 4.9148, up 2.1%

Combined, the average increase is 3.6%.

However, the average is skewed by BLT. Exclude BLT and MF are up 3.1%, in line with historical averages before the introduction of BLT.

Considering BLT is a tower with small grounds, an almost nothing lobby, and a basic pool, the increases over the last 4 years just don't seem right. I'm beginning to wonder if the introductory MF was jiggered and Disney has been adjusting BLT rates over the last few years to bring in in line where actual costs are.

That could be true. The last 2 years seemed to be a bit of an adjustment for lower starting points. But like I said if you take out the front desk increase at BLT (50% of this year's increase) everything else is up a net 3.2%. They introduced the front desk for exclusive BLT check-in in at the end of 2012 but 2013 was the first full year. I'm guessing they didn't budget properly or had to add additional head count to keep up the desk. I'm hoping its a 1 year adjustment. I'm also hoping someone who goes to the meeting actually asks the question.

 

[GoofGoof]

2014 Maintenance Fees (MF) for all the resorts:

• BLT @ 4.7846, up 6.4%
• AKV @ 5.9748, up 5.3%
• OKW @ 5.5411, up 3.7%
• BWV @ 6.0067, up 2.8%
• BCV @ 5.7904, up 2.6%
• VWL @ 5.9265, up 2.3%
• SSR @ 4.9148, up 2.1%

Combined, the average increase is 3.6%.

However, the average is skewed by BLT. Exclude BLT and MF are up 3.1%, in line with historical averages before the introduction of BLT.

Considering BLT is a tower with small grounds, an almost nothing lobby, and a basic pool, the increases over the last 4 years just don't seem right. I'm beginning to wonder if the introductory MF was jiggered and Disney has been adjusting BLT rates over the last few years to bring it in line where actual costs are.

By the way, SSR is becoming far and away the real best kept secret at WDW. In a year or 2 they will probably have the lowest maintenance fees and you can pick up a resale contract for in the low 70s or less than half the going rate for direct sales from Disney.

 

[toolsnspools]

I've always wondered where they come up with the cost of transportation. There is no transportation at BLT. We leech off the Contemporary's transportation. I highly doubt they can show that transportation was added to the Contemporary resort when BLT was added.

 

[GoofGoof]

I've always wondered where they come up with the cost of transportation. There is no transportation at BLT. We leech off the Contemporary's transportation. I highly doubt they can show that transportation was added to the Contemporary resort when BLT was added.

Even though they didn't add anything they still spread the costs between CR and BLT. It's one of the hidden benefits to DVC for Disney. They reduced the transportation cost for CR when BLT opened. It was reflected in the reduced prices for CR rooms the increased profits for CR.

 

[toolsnspools]

Even though they didn't add anything they still spread the costs between CR and BLT. It's one of the hidden benefits to DVC for Disney. They reduced the transportation cost for CR when BLT opened. It was reflected in the reduced prices for CR rooms the increased profits for CR.

I know what they did, and it's obvious why. I just question the legality of it. That probably explains the reason for the bridge. If you connect the hotels they must be the same hotel. Notice the excessively long covered walkway to GF from VGF?

 

[GoofGoof]

I know what they did, and it's obvious why. I just question the legality of it. That probably explains the reason for the bridge. If you connect the hotels they must be the same hotel. Notice the excessively long covered walkway to GF from VGF?

Why wouldn't it be legal? If you stay at BLT you get transportation via bus or monorail to the parks and DTD. They have every right to charge you for it. The only way it could be illegal would be if they made the BLT owners pay more than their share of total costs. They don't specifically list out how those allocations are calculated, but I'm sure that is part of the annual audit.

 

[Ralphlaw]

Obviously people at BLT cause more riders on the monorails and buses. I assume a few more buses, and perhaps a few extra monorails, are now needed to haul them around. Disney's number on this is probably defensible, but probably not as precisely to the penny as one might want.

But it's still minor compared to their assessed cost of having a check in desk in the BLT lobby. Do the math: If they have two people there for an average of 12 hours per day, that's 4,380 hours per year. If they charge us $1 million for that, DVC is somehow paying them $238 per hour to be there. I understand there are costs beyond hourly rates, but that still seems awfully high to have a couple CMs standing behind check-in desks. Even if it was 16 hours a day, that's still $171 per hour. Are there somehow some bell services or other less visible workers that we're now paying for?

In any event, that's the number from my mailing that stuck in my mind. Unfortunately, I don't have the precise figures from the mailing in front of me, but I know it totaled more than $1 million.

 

[tjkraz]

I know what they did, and it's obvious why. I just question the legality of it. That probably explains the reason for the bridge. If you connect the hotels they must be the same hotel. Notice the excessively long covered walkway to GF from VGF?

The physical bridge isn't even necessary. BLT guests use the same monorail platform and bus stop as CR hotel guests. That's all that matters.

Disney Transportation is obviously an expensive department to operate. For years they've had formulas which charge-back a portion of the total cost to each resort hotel. I'm sure it's very complex, based upon the mode of transportation (bus, boat, monorail), distance between hotel and destination, frequency of service, operating hours etc.

With those formulas in place, it's relatively easy to split the CR costs between the hotel and DVC. Disney's basis for the split is merely the number of guests staying in each room/villa. If 40% of the bodies who check-in to the property are staying in DVC villas, DVC dues are charged 40% of the resort's total transportation cost.

 

[tjkraz]

Obviously people at BLT cause more riders on the monorails and buses. I assume a few more buses, and perhaps a few extra monorails, are now needed to haul them around. Disney's number on this is probably defensible, but probably not as precisely to the penny as one might want.

But it's still minor compared to their assessed cost of having a check in desk in the BLT lobby. Do the math: If they have two people there for an average of 12 hours per day, that's 4,380 hours per year. If they charge us $1 million for that, DVC is somehow paying them $238 per hour to be there. I understand there are costs beyond hourly rates, but that still seems awfully high to have a couple CMs standing behind check-in desks. Even if it was 16 hours a day, that's still $171 per hour. Are there somehow some bell services or other less visible workers that we're now paying for?

In any event, that's the number from my mailing that stuck in my mind. Unfortunately, I don't have the precise figures from the mailing in front of me, but I know it totaled more than $1 million.

The "Administration and Front Desk" charges total more than $3.4 million for 2014. That's up about $800k from 2013. (Incidentally, that Front Desk increase combined with higher property taxes account for about 80% of the BLT dues increase in 2014.)

The $800k is probably linked to the fully staffed BLT front desk. It's been a few years since I've checked in there myself but from other guests I've heard there are usually at least two CMs checking people in, there's often a curbside greeter working from a tablet computer and bell services staff is now kept on-hand at BLT (rather than calling over from CR.)

Perhaps other changes will be announced at the Annual Meeting which contribute to the higher fees.

Overall, Admin & Front Desk is something of a catch-all category for necessary staff members guests may rarely see. Everyone from the resort General Manager to Human Resources to IT is covered by that category.

 

[toolsnspools]

Why wouldn't it be legal? If you stay at BLT you get transportation via bus or monorail to the parks and DTD. They have every right to charge you for it. The only way it could be illegal would be if they made the BLT owners pay more than their share of total costs. They don't specifically list out how those allocations are calculated, but I'm sure that is part of the annual audit.

Because with a timeshare, you are buying a portion of a hotel for the length of your contract. The MF specifically need to be for the property you bought. That's why each DVC has separate MF. They aren't allowed to charge maintenance for Space Mtn because it's not part of the resort they sold. They shouldn't be able to charge MF for transportation at the. Contemporary when I can't book a room there with my room points. I have to trade the points out of DVC and use them on a Disney room. That's why connecting the hotels with a bridge makes a difference. It makes them technically the same resort, for the purpose of charging us higher MF.

 

[GoofGoof]

Because with a timeshare, you are buying a portion of a hotel for the length of your contract. The MF specifically need to be for the property you bought. That's why each DVC has separate MF. They aren't allowed to charge maintenance for Space Mtn because it's not part of the resort they sold. They shouldn't be able to charge MF for transportation at the. Contemporary when I can't book a room there with my room points. I have to trade the points out of DVC and use them on a Disney room. That's why connecting the hotels with a bridge makes a difference. It makes them technically the same resort, for the purpose of charging us higher MF.

I guess that makes sense, but I think it's more related to sharing a bus stop and a monorail stop. CR shares busses and monorails with multiple resorts that aren't attached to it. The cost is shared.

 

[toolsnspools]

I guess that makes sense, but I think it's more related to sharing a bus stop and a monorail stop. CR shares busses and monorails with multiple resorts that aren't attached to it. The cost is shared.

I'm sure the lawyers have it covered. It does irk me a little to see MF going to pay for services that were already a part of the Contemporary. At least the BLT owners got their own pool. VGF can't even say that. I'm sure the pool costs are now going to be augmented buy VGF MF though. Maybe with another resort covering some of the Monorail costs, the BLT transportation will go down next year... yeah right.

 

[rufio]

I came here to post about this. I looked back and the 2013 increase was 6.52%. If this continues, well, I'm going to keep whining about it while simultaneously paying the dues every year.

 

[GoofGoof]

I came here to post about this. I looked back and the 2013 increase was 6.52%. If this continues, well, I'm going to keep whining about it while simultaneously paying the dues every year.

The only positive is that the categories with the largest increases were not the same as the ones with large increases last year. Housekeeping was the biggest culprit last year and was actually flat this year which is sorta like a decrease given that the expected increase due to inflation is probably around 3%. My hope is that BLT starts to level out with increases between 3 and 4% each year.

 

[GoofGoof]

The "Administration and Front Desk" charges total more than $3.4 million for 2014. That's up about $800k from 2013. (Incidentally, that Front Desk increase combined with higher property taxes account for about 80% of the BLT dues increase in 2014.)

The $800k is probably linked to the fully staffed BLT front desk. It's been a few years since I've checked in there myself but from other guests I've heard there are usually at least two CMs checking people in, there's often a curbside greeter working from a tablet computer and bell services staff is now kept on-hand at BLT (rather than calling over from CR.)

Perhaps other changes will be announced at the Annual Meeting which contribute to the higher fees.

Overall, Admin & Front Desk is something of a catch-all category for necessary staff members guests may rarely see. Everyone from the resort General Manager to Human Resources to IT is covered by that category.

Just got back from BLT. We used DME so we actually checked in at CR but when I went down to the desk later in the week there were 4 or 5 CMs between checkin and concierge. I assume at least 1 was a manager. I am also wondering if any of the Nextgen/MM+ expenses are lumped into this category. Extra staff to assist in bands and resetting pins and helping guests.

One other possibility is they are spending all of the money on the ridiculously strong smelling air fresheners in the loby. That stuff was potent.