News New Gondola Transportation - Disney Skyliner -

[englanddg]

Take, for example, the friendship boats.

 

[peter11435]

I am way behind...

But, as there is a lot of "what if" being tossed about...

The real question is...

Will Guests use it?

Guests won't really have much or a choice

 

[G00fyDad]

If gondolas all over the world can be used efficiently and accept people with wheelchairs, bikes, skis, snowboards, and deal with little kids....I am sure Disney will be able to sort out any potential issues. They are not reinventing the wheel. There are plenty of best practices out there that are available to them. You're worrying for nothing, based on a limited knowledge of how a gondola system works.

There are access turnstiles all over the world yet people had a hard time at Disney's turnstiles. Want proof? Watch a tourist try to negotiate a New York subway turnstile. Pure comedy gold right there. (unless they are in front of you)

 

[Kamikaze]

Will Guests use it?

If they want to go from the four Skyliner resorts to the two Skyliner theme parks using free transportation, they won't have a choice.

 

[Bender123]

If the definition of amazing has changed to 'inefficient for guest flow, costly, and non viable for expansion' then you're 100% correct.

There is no reason for monorail to be the choice of WDW in the future. Better than buses? Absolutely. But WDW's solution has to be constantly moving and constantly loading. We've of course been over this - but a monorail, while it has its uses, does not work well for how WDW (and theme park in general) guest flow operates. Large crowds at 2 times a day stress the system beyond its capacity, which results in backups and delays. A system that operates continuously is always going to handle such a crowd better, as the flow is continuous. This doesn't mean that there aren't backups, but it does mean that you're not standing there stationary waiting for vehicles to arrive. Theres always movement towards your destination. A bus is actually better in this regard, as you can add another bus to the road to increase capacity, but you can't increase monorail capacity once the loop is at its max number of trains.

I guarantee you - if Disney thought they could get away with shutting down the monorail permanently, they would do so. If there was ever an event that took out a large portion of the system, they would use that as an excuse to close it.

Advantages of a skyliner over a monorail, outside cost, is the same reason why a ride like Haunted Mansion has a massive advantage in throughput over a ride like Dumbo or teacups. For this example, lets say Dumbo is now super Dumbo and has 100 cars. The Haunted Mansion ride is continuously loading and unloading, which means that if you have 100 cars holding four people, you can continuously move 400 people without stopping (or with a minimal stop if there is an issue). With Dumbo, you can now load 400 people, start your ride cycle, unload passengers, reload passengers and restart the cycle. You can spend a very significant time of your service just sitting and doing nothing. During low volume time, Dumbo is still a batch system. If two people load onto the ride and another family just misses it, they are still waiting for the next cycle to start. There is no free capacity after the batch leaves, whether the ride is full or empty, its cycle stays the same and the person has to wait for a new cycle to start. You get to spend five minutes doing nothing because the batch is in progress and nothing will change that.

Dumbo is the Monorail. Its a fun ride, but when you are talking pure transport, the continuous load system will always win over a batch model. It will eat lines faster at park close, be insanely more efficient at low volume times and will reduce off cycle times that are just pure inefficiency. the Magic Kingdom Monorail is a good example...the system is maxed out and there really isn't a way to improve it without a wholesale replacement of the monorails. You cant add more trains, because you would just end up with trains parked outside stations waiting for the next one to move. You cant suddenly make a larger train, because the platforms aren't built for that and the monorail gauge is what it is. Your only way to make the monorail more efficient is to improve the speed of those boarding, which is simply not realistic in a herd of humans.

The monorail is great, and I love it, but its really not built, in its current form, to handle what the average Disney day throws at it.

 

[Kamikaze]

At WDW?
Are there videos of WDW guests getting in gondolas?
Not yet of course.

People did figure out how to get on the MK Skyway without losing their minds and pooping their pants. This is an even easier system to load than that was. Granted, you're adding the extra ECV factor, but its not as difficult as some would think.

 

[Bender123]

People did figure out how to get on the MK Skyway without losing their minds and pooping their pants. This is an even easier system to load than that was. Granted, you're adding the extra ECV factor, but its not as difficult as some would think.

And how many times do we need to point out that this system allows ECVs to be loaded on a stationary side rail or at a slowed speed that does not effect the cable speed...the station and cable are different systems. If a difficult load is needed, the person can be loaded off system and their car inserted into the traffic flow when loading is complete.

 

[Incomudro]

People did figure out how to get on the MK Skyway without losing their minds and pooping their pants. This is an even easier system to load than that was. Granted, you're adding the extra ECV factor, but its not as difficult as some would think.

I understand.
Arguably though, the parks were less crowded in those days and the population was more aware of their surroundings, much more trim and agile, a bit more courteous, and less loaded up with gear.

 

[Incomudro]

Well... there is a ski lift at Blizzard Beach (I know, different system) which is fun to watch people get on...

My sons and I like to ride it up to Summit Plummet at rope drop.
We can easily run up, but it's sort of a tradition.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I am way behind...

But, as there is a lot of "what if" being tossed about...

The real question is...

Will Guests use it?

In droves! Everyone without any psychological problems with riding a gondola will be pushing each other out of the way to ride it. What happens to those that booked a room unaware of that situation will have a problem according to everyone here. I guess we all just have to wait and see how it works out for those people, however, otherwise it will be quite popular.

 

[Andrew C]

There are access turnstiles all over the world yet people had a hard time at Disney's turnstiles. Want proof? Watch a tourist try to negotiate a New York subway turnstile. Pure comedy gold right there. (unless they are in front of you)

It is a good thing then that gondolas typically have good direction for customers getting on from the team members running it.

 

[flynnibus]

I'm pretty sure gondolas are the new Mayan calander....

 

[orky8]

Advantages of a skyliner over a monorail, outside cost, is the same reason why a ride like Haunted Mansion has a massive advantage in throughput over a ride like Dumbo or teacups. For this example, lets say Dumbo is now super Dumbo and has 100 cars. The Haunted Mansion ride is continuously loading and unloading, which means that if you have 100 cars holding four people, you can continuously move 400 people without stopping (or with a minimal stop if there is an issue). With Dumbo, you can now load 400 people, start your ride cycle, unload passengers, reload passengers and restart the cycle. You can spend a very significant time of your service just sitting and doing nothing. During low volume time, Dumbo is still a batch system. If two people load onto the ride and another family just misses it, they are still waiting for the next cycle to start. There is no free capacity after the batch leaves, whether the ride is full or empty, its cycle stays the same and the person has to wait for a new cycle to start. You get to spend five minutes doing nothing because the batch is in progress and nothing will change that.

Dumbo is the Monorail. Its a fun ride, but when you are talking pure transport, the continuous load system will always win over a batch model. It will eat lines faster at park close, be insanely more efficient at low volume times and will reduce off cycle times that are just pure inefficiency. the Magic Kingdom Monorail is a good example...the system is maxed out and there really isn't a way to improve it without a wholesale replacement of the monorails. You cant add more trains, because you would just end up with trains parked outside stations waiting for the next one to move. You cant suddenly make a larger train, because the platforms aren't built for that and the monorail gauge is what it is. Your only way to make the monorail more efficient is to improve the speed of those boarding, which is simply not realistic in a herd of humans.

The monorail is great, and I love it, but its really not built, in its current form, to handle what the average Disney day throws at it.

Your analogy is severely flawed. The proper comparison would be more akin to the monorail is Universe of Energy, with huge capacity but slower load and dispatch times vs Haunted Mansion for the gondolas. Moreover, unlike gondolas which are pretty much fixed capacity at all times, with investment and planning, the monorails can have variable capacity, reducing the number of trains or dispatch interval during slower periods and increasing during peak periods. With enough trains, the monorail could always having a train ready to pull into the station when the next one leaves. This is similar to how mass transit works across the country - more trains and shorter dispatch periods during peak times.

Assume the gondola holds 8 people and dispatches 5 gondolas per minute. Maximum capacity for 30 minutes after park close is only 1200 people. In fact, that is the constant and only capacity. Now, compare that to a monorail which holds 300 people and assume a dispatch rate of 1 every 3 minutes. Maximum capacity for 30 minutes after park close is 3,000 people. Add more trains and you can dispatch every 2 minutes with a maximum capacity for those 30 minutes of 4,500 people. During the middle of the day, take some trains off the beam for cleaning and maintenance.

Unfortunately, if my analogy is true, and the monorail is UOE, well then we may be in trouble...

 

[raymusiccity]

At the risk of further derailing this thread, shouldn't disability laws require proof of disability?
Otherwise, anybody can pretend to have one while taking advantage of laws intended to protect those that actually do have a disability.

Sometimes there are just no easy solutions without riling many of the snowflakes. I'm trusting that karma will take care of all the sleazy people who fake disabilities (and carry around phony service animals).

 

[Kamikaze]

I understand.
Arguably though, the parks were less crowded in those days and the population was more aware of their surroundings, much more trim and agile, a bit more courteous, and less loaded up with gear.

The parks are not less crowded than the amount of guests that will ride this system daily. Its only 4 resorts to 2 parks, not the entire property and not the entirety of the guests going to a park. Not sure what the Skyway's average daily riders was, but its not like we're putting the same number of monorail riders on this system.

 

[Kamikaze]

And how many times do we need to point out that this system allows ECVs to be loaded on a stationary side rail or at a slowed speed that does not effect the cable speed...the station and cable are different systems. If a difficult load is needed, the person can be loaded off system and their car inserted into the traffic flow when loading is complete.

Not only that, but I think the ECV issue is a bit overblown for this use case. A lot of ECV users don't rent them until they get to the parks, so they wouldn't yet have them for getting on the Skyliner.

 

[Incomudro]

Sometimes there are just no easy solutions without riling many of the snowflakes. I'm trusting that karma will take care of all the sleazy people who fake disabilities (and carry around phony service animals).

I suspect most of those riled are the fakers.
If I had a legitimate disability, I would gladly offer proof - and I would want to be sure that fakers weren't taking advantage of a system meant to make my life less difficult.

 

[Bender123]

Your analogy is severely flawed. The proper comparison would be more akin to the monorail is Universe of Energy, with huge capacity but slower load and dispatch times vs Haunted Mansion for the gondolas. Moreover, unlike gondolas which are pretty much fixed capacity at all times, with investment and planning, the monorails can have variable capacity, reducing the number of trains or dispatch interval during slower periods and increasing during peak periods. With enough trains, the monorail could always having a train ready to pull into the station when the next one leaves. This is similar to how mass transit works across the country - more trains and shorter dispatch periods during peak times.

Assume the gondola holds 8 people and dispatches 5 gondolas per minute. Maximum capacity for 30 minutes after park close is only 1200 people. In fact, that is the constant and only capacity. Now, compare that to a monorail which holds 300 people and assume a dispatch rate of 1 every 3 minutes. Maximum capacity for 30 minutes after park close is 3,000 people. Add more trains and you can dispatch every 2 minutes with a maximum capacity for those 30 minutes of 4,500 people. During the middle of the day, take some trains off the beam for cleaning and maintenance.

Unfortunately, if my analogy is true, and the monorail is UOE, well then we may be in trouble...

On your first point, not really...Even at a huge batching and a full theater, UoE had a theoretical capacity of less than 1500 per hour (assuming perfect loads and full capacity). You are always limited by the cycle times, no matter how many people you load in or the number of people waiting, a batch is a batch. Haunted Mansion has a theoretical capacity of over double that at 3200 per hour.

You are caught up in bulk capacity and not looking at how a system actually cycles people on and off. 8 per minute is continuous (and actually fairly accurate in real world use of these systems), in your example would be a 64 person per minute capacity compared to a monorail having a stated maximum capacity (no strollers/ecvs/packed like sardines) capacity of 360 people. In order to equal the capacity of the gondola, the monorail would need to complete a cycle about every 5 minutes and 30 seconds. That means pull into the station, unload, load, leave, repeat. In real world use, you would simply never be able to do this on the monorail beams without massively impacting safety by having monorails basically pulling in as others are pulling out. The transit time from the Grand Flo to MK is significantly less than this, so the monorails would just end up parked in the middle of the beam or stuck at the previous station.

If you expect 2 minute dispatches of monorails, you would either need to greatly extend your track to accommodate all these trains (which increases travel distance and time en route) or you would need a much improved Disney guest that can instantly load and unload in a near perfect maneuver.

 

[HauntedPirate]

I suspect most of those riled are the fakers.
If I had a legitimate disability, I would gladly offer proof - and I would want to be sure that fakers weren't taking advantage of a system meant to make my life less difficult.

Exactly. If I have a legitimate reason for needing an ECV, I will gladly, willingly, and happily show the proof.

And I cannot agree more with your first sentence. Why don't some people want even the simplest and easiest of barriers to provide disability benefits? Because they are taking advantage of the system, whatever system it may be, for either personal or political gain. 'Nuff said.

 

[G00fyDad]

It is a good thing then that gondolas typically have good direction for customers getting on from the team members running it.

The CM controlled turnstiles at Disney had very clear directions too.