More families of autistic kids sue Disney parks

arko

Well-Known Member
Especially when those with mobility issues who are wheelchair bound and no longer eligible for DAS have to wait in a standard queue and then wait an addition 5 to 10 minutes on top of that for a accessible ride vehicle to come around. Yet, not a peep out of this group who these passes were originally intended.



And this unfortunate occurrence is due to the medical profession defining autism as a “spectrum disorder,” incorporating both mild and severe cases which has led this diagnosis to a 78% increase in 10 years.

What does a DAS do for someone in a wheelchair?
Simply put making the queue wheelchair accessible is a reasonable accommodation. Again there are many reasons why someone in a wheelchair could get a DAS, but simply being in a wheelchair is not one of them. I mean if you really want to go after DIsney you could say that they need to retrofit every single older ride to accommodate wheelchairs instead of requiring transfers. But that will never happen because they are grandfathered in. That and Disney would argue that it would place an undue financial burden.

Again the DAS is designed for someone who can't wait in a regular queue. Disney has changed the regular queues to accommodate wheelchairs, so they don't need a DAS.
 

arko

Well-Known Member
And I respectfully suggest that you not put words in my mouth.

I don't know what the heck it is with this topic but people seem to project all kinds of stuff on anything said, turning it to fit whatever statements they wish to make, to an absurd level where a discussion is impossible because no one is actually paying attention to what someone is saying before they rip into them.

I'm not bothering replying to the statements where folks clearly are intentionally obtuse simply because they want to argue with me personally, where what they are saying has nothing to do with what I am, but I certainly will not sit by and let you make the offensive assumption above about me because you could not be more completely off-base.

I have not focused on "potential misdiagnosis". I believe what you are misinterpreting/projecting that upon is my point that if it were not for the abuse of this system by folks who have realized they can say "My kid can't stand in line" and not have any burden of proof of medical diagnosis, we wouldn't even be talking about this. This in no way discounts those with a medical diagnosis who are simply trying to get accommodation within the system. The only thing I have talked about when it comes to diagnosis is the explosion in number, which I don't think even folks in the mood to be so argumentative would debate.

In any case - obviously discussing this here is a waste of time since folks just want to argue to advance their personal agendas or are simply looking to be offended.

The explosion in numbers is hard to quantify, because it possibly has several factors including better diagnostic tools, environmental(no not shots) . Also once separate disorders have been put under the larger autism spectrum, disorders like Aspergers which until 1981 were considered a separate diagnosis or things like PDD-NOS are now all under one banner.. Also more recent studies have found that the number of adults on the spectrum is a lot more in line with current numbers of children than previously thought, and there is less of an explosion than we thought.
 

arko

Well-Known Member
So what is wrong with requiring proof whendoig so culd then enable the business to tailor what is required so the customer can then enjoy everything like th rest of the public. As has been seen on her not everybody needs or wants everything that the DAS offers but some could do with more. As long as the business keeps the information given to it to the minimum and keeps it private would it be any differnt than telling everything to loads of medical practioners?

If Disney loses and are forced to, say, give out fotl passes evryone without any proof all that will happen is everyone will just ask for one whether they are actually entitled to one or not and the lines will just increase and then we would be back at square one with people sueing again because they will have a longer wait again.

The ADA speccifially requires you not to ask for proof. This is a legal requirement that Disney can't get around unless the law is changed or the judge rules it so( which would likely get an appeal).
 

biggy H

Well-Known Member
The ADA speccifially requires you not to ask for proof. This is a legal requirement that Disney can't get around unless the law is changed or the judge rules it so( which would likely get an appeal).

I meant by changing the law not Disney or anybody else doing it on their own.
 

jaklgreen

Well-Known Member
So what is wrong with requiring proof whendoig so culd then enable the business to tailor what is required so the customer can then enjoy everything like th rest of the public. As has been seen on her not everybody needs or wants everything that the DAS offers but some could do with more. As long as the business keeps the information given to it to the minimum and keeps it private would it be any differnt than telling everything to loads of medical practioners?

If Disney loses and are forced to, say, give out fotl passes evryone without any proof all that will happen is everyone will just ask for one whether they are actually entitled to one or not and the lines will just increase and then we would be back at square one with people sueing again because they will have a longer wait again.
Ask the government. Other countries require proof but not the USA.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I meant by changing the law not Disney or anybody else doing it on their own.

Then contact your elected representative in Washington with your concerns.

We can't do anything beyond discussing how this is winding through the legal system as well as clearing up misconceptions.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Especially when those with mobility issues who are wheelchair bound and no longer eligible for DAS have to wait in a standard queue and then wait an addition 5 to 10 minutes on top of that for a accessible ride vehicle to come around. Yet, not a peep out of this group who these passes were originally intended.



And this unfortunate occurrence is due to the medical profession defining autism as a “spectrum disorder,” incorporating both mild and severe cases which has led this diagnosis to a 78% increase in 10 years.

You're trolling again.

Do you have anything worthwhile to add on the merits of this case or are you going to continue to be a burden on those trying to have a civil and reasonable discussion here?
 

biggy H

Well-Known Member
Then contact your elected representative in Washington with your concerns.

We can't do anything beyond discussing how this is winding through the legal system as well as clearing up misconceptions.

I would but I'm not an American. Its just how we see it from outside of the US... Maybe if enough people who could, would ask their representatives.... but then again seems like they have more important things to worry about.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I would but I'm not an American. Its just how we see it from outside of the US... Maybe if enough people who could, would ask their representatives.... but then again seems like they have more important things to worry about.

One would think that yes, in order to receive access reserved for the disabled you would have to prove that you are actually disabled.... Such is not the case.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Especially when those with mobility issues who are wheelchair bound and no longer eligible for DAS have to wait in a standard queue and then wait an addition 5 to 10 minutes on top of that for a accessible ride vehicle to come around. Yet, not a peep out of this group who these passes were originally intended.

As a lot of folks have noted, part of the issue was Disney's policy vs. Disney's practice. Technically, at least for the past decade or so, you didn't need a DAC/DAS if you had a wheelchair, the "wheelchair was your card". However, we always got one because some CM's wanted them and it was easier than explaining at every ride that yes, we will transfer the guest ourselves, but no, the guest with us cannot "walk a few feet" or even stand on their own, as opposed to someone who just rented a Disney wheelchair for a few hours because they were tired, etc.

I don't know if it was so much "not a peep" out of folks addressing the physical mobility part of the issue - I was certainly trying to talk about it - but unfortunately, the furor over abuse was so bad that it was a lynch mob mentality - anyone who was like "hey wait a minute here" was just trampled over. There were an awful lot of folks who just were so out for blood that someone might be getting a perceived advantage over them that it was impossible to have a rational discussion about it.

As you outlined above, as I have many times to no avail, is that the "FOTL access" was NOT given to everyone with a DAC/DAS, and the places where it was were because that's how Disney chose to address the ADA. Instead of making new queues truly accessible they chose to use alternate entrances, usually somehow through the FP lane (which means, for example, although the Haunted Mansion and stretching room are easily able to be wheeled into, you have to find a really nice CM who is willing to let you do it, or you never see it as it's not SOP).

Again, though, as you pointed out - yeah, you may get loaded through a FP entrance, but quite often you have to wait for a CM to escort you (since a lot of the time it's through an exit you are forced to enter, so they won't let you unless a CM is escorting you), and then once you get inside you wait for another CM to take you to load, where you wait a third time for an accessible vehicle (if available). A number of times due to some CM miscommunication, we were left at one of the above points, patiently waiting for 15 minutes or more before we went to find someone only to find out that it was forgotten we were waiting.

I'm not complaining that it was this way (aside from being forgotten about), I'm just explaining how it was - which was far different than the perception that it was a red carpet ride to the front. Some folks may well have gotten that, but it certainly wasn't us - so it wasn't everyone. When it came down to it, under the previous system we were just about able to experience an average number of rides as everyone else. The new one, because Disney simply will not allow us to enter most queues with a wheelchair just like everyone else, even the newer attractions, means we spend half the day making appointments and waiting for them - and we can't just "go do something else" in the meantime, because everything is like this. We've stopped taking my niece - she just got so tired of sitting around it wasn't worth it to even go any more.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
As a lot of folks have noted, part of the issue was Disney's policy vs. Disney's practice. Technically, at least for the past decade or so, you didn't need a DAC/DAS if you had a wheelchair, the "wheelchair was your card". However, we always got one because some CM's wanted them and it was easier than explaining at every ride that yes, we will transfer the guest ourselves, but no, the guest with us cannot "walk a few feet" or even stand on their own, as opposed to someone who just rented a Disney wheelchair for a few hours because they were tired, etc.

I don't know if it was so much "not a peep" out of folks addressing the physical mobility part of the issue - I was certainly trying to talk about it - but unfortunately, the furor over abuse was so bad that it was a lynch mob mentality - anyone who was like "hey wait a minute here" was just trampled over. There were an awful lot of folks who just were so out for blood that someone might be getting a perceived advantage over them that it was impossible to have a rational discussion about it.

As you outlined above, as I have many times to no avail, is that the "FOTL access" was NOT given to everyone with a DAC/DAS, and the places where it was were because that's how Disney chose to address the ADA. Instead of making new queues truly accessible they chose to use alternate entrances, usually somehow through the FP lane (which means, for example, although the Haunted Mansion and stretching room are easily able to be wheeled into, you have to find a really nice CM who is willing to let you do it, or you never see it as it's not SOP).

Again, though, as you pointed out - yeah, you may get loaded through a FP entrance, but quite often you have to wait for a CM to escort you (since a lot of the time it's through an exit you are forced to enter, so they won't let you unless a CM is escorting you), and then once you get inside you wait for another CM to take you to load, where you wait a third time for an accessible vehicle (if available). A number of times due to some CM miscommunication, we were left at one of the above points, patiently waiting for 15 minutes or more before we went to find someone only to find out that it was forgotten we were waiting.

I'm not complaining that it was this way (aside from being forgotten about), I'm just explaining how it was - which was far different than the perception that it was a red carpet ride to the front. Some folks may well have gotten that, but it certainly wasn't us - so it wasn't everyone. When it came down to it, under the previous system we were just about able to experience an average number of rides as everyone else. The new one, because Disney simply will not allow us to enter most queues with a wheelchair just like everyone else, even the newer attractions, means we spend half the day making appointments and waiting for them - and we can't just "go do something else" in the meantime, because everything is like this. We've stopped taking my niece - she just got so tired of sitting around it wasn't worth it to even go any more.

You're feeding the troll. He's just trying to cause trouble... like with every other thread.
 

BuzzKillington

Active Member
What does a DAS do for someone in a wheelchair?
Well, since the DAS return time for an attraction is based on standby wait times less 10 minutes, It would even out the waiting period for those who are wheelchair bound, now wouldn't it?

Simply put making the queue wheelchair accessible is a reasonable accommodation.
So says the father of a "so-called" disabled child who is eligible for DAS yet high-functioning enough to be in high school honors courses, a star scout and will likely go to college.

It is the likes of parents like you who milked the system to the extent that it had to be changed so now the people who these passes were originally intended have to wait in the standby queue (+10 mins) while your "so-called" disabled child can utilize the DAS like a FastPass and get in twice the rides in an 8 to 10 hour day. The "truly" disabled people below, who were tossed to the wayside by Disney for the likes of your "so-called" disabled child, will be lucky to get 4 hours in a day due to health concerns and that is why theses passes were so important to them.

NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DAS:




ELIGIBLE FOR DAS:
 
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PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Excuse me? You kowtow to those who have mild-sensory issues and abused this disability pass program to where it is today but I am the troll for coming on here and defend the truly disabled's right to these passes. Brilliant!

No, you're not defending anything.

You're here causing trouble. Your past history is indicative of your motivations.
 

arko

Well-Known Member
Well, since the DAS return time for an attraction is based on standby wait times less 10 minutes, It would even out the waiting period for those who are wheelchair bound, now wouldn't it?


So says the father of a "so-called" disabled child who is eligible for DAS yet high-functioning enough to be in high school honors courses, a star scout and will likely go to college.

It is the likes of parents like you who milked the system to the extent that it had to be changed so now the people who these passes were originally intended have to wait in the standby queue (+10 mins) while your "so-called" disabled child can utilize the DAS like a FastPass and get in twice the rides in an 8 to 10 hour day. The "truly" disabled people below, who were tossed to the wayside by Disney for the likes of your "so-called" disabled child, will be lucky to get 4 hours in a day due to health concerns and that is why theses passes were so important to them.

NOT ELIGIBLE FOR DAS:




ELIGIBLE FOR DAS:

Oh Buzz why do you make this so so easy. I see you have learned to cut and paste from your previous posts.
So lets play a game so you can figure out where that 10 minutes comes from.
So first question have you used a fast pass lately?

And a bonus question my family went to 2 parks this weekend how many rides did we do?
 

arko

Well-Known Member
Excuse me? You kowtow to those who have mild-sensory issues and abused this disability pass program to where it is today but I am the troll for coming on here and defending the truly disabled's right to these passes. Brilliant!

Yes Buzz likes to conveniently forget these guys who had a much more profound effect on the discontinuing of the GAC

http://nypost.com/2013/05/14/rich-m...guides-so-kids-can-cut-lines-at-disney-world/
or this man and woman
http://www.today.com/news/undercover-disney-deplorable-scheme-skip-lines-6C10131266

When questioned by Today producers their responses were simply gold

"Do you think you're abusing the system?"

"No," Ryan said.

"Why not?"

"I gave him a wonderful tour," Ryan replied.

"With your disabled pass, where you went through side entrances and exits," we pointed out. "And they're not disabled at all. They're complete strangers. And you charged them for it."

"And?" Ryan said.

"Do you ever feel any pangs of guilt when you're cutting past all of those people who are waiting in line with people who are paying you, who aren't disabled at all?" we asked.

"It's a moral question."

"And that's the question, you don't feel morally --"

"I couldn't care less," Ryan said.

"About those people waiting in line," we said.

"No."


Or that most Disney fan web sites that have inside knowledge have cited sources that the worst abuse came from teenagers at first going around in wheelchairs and then skipping the wheelchairs when they found they could get a GAC even without one. And once word got around on the internet it became a disaster for everyone with a disability.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Yes Buzz likes to conveniently forget these guys who had a much more profound effect on the discontinuing of the GAC

http://nypost.com/2013/05/14/rich-m...guides-so-kids-can-cut-lines-at-disney-world/
or this man and woman
http://www.today.com/news/undercover-disney-deplorable-scheme-skip-lines-6C10131266

When questioned by Today producers their responses were simply gold




Or that most Disney fan web sites that have inside knowledge have cited sources that the worst abuse came from teenagers at first going around in wheelchairs and then skipping the wheelchairs when they found they could get a GAC even without one. And once word got around on the internet it became a disaster for everyone with a disability.

The fun part is that I know for a fact he's wrong. I have a disabled friend who either uses an ECV on a bad day or crutches on a good day, and she had a DAS. I've seen plenty of sick kids in wheelchairs what get them too. (Another friend's daughter). I've seen disabled veterans get them. I've seen people with MS get them. So he's pretty off base... he just seems to hate autistic people.

As for the reprehensible pieces of detritus and human filth that hired those handicapped tour guides? They're whats wrong with society. Plain and simple, they're part of the problem. And you're right, the only reason the GAC abuses were addressed were because of the publicity on NBC & the Today show.
 

arko

Well-Known Member
The fun part is that I know for a fact he's wrong. I have a disabled friend who either uses an ECV on a bad day or crutches on a good day, and she had a DAS. I've seen plenty of sick kids in wheelchairs what get them too. (Another friend's daughter). I've seen disabled veterans get them. I've seen people with MS get them. So he's pretty off base... he just seems to hate autistic people.

As for the reprehensible pieces of detritus and human filth that hired those handicapped tour guides? They're whats wrong with society. Plain and simple, they're part of the problem. And you're right, the only reason the GAC abuses were addressed were because of the publicity on NBC & the Today show.

facts don't seem to phase Buzz one bit:hilarious:
 

BuzzKillington

Active Member
So he's pretty off base... he just seems to hate autistic people.

That is 100% false! My heart goes out to those children who have severe autism as well as their parents because the GAC was so beneficial to them given their child’s inability to understand. It is the parents who have children with mild-sensory processing disorders who are milking the system (and ultimately ran the GAC into the ground through overuse) who I dislike.

These parents have no idea what it is to have a truly disabled child and the daily struggles that accompany them, let alone knowing that your child will never grow up to experience basic life missions like being in the boy/girl scouts, play organized sports, go to college, live on their own, get married or have a family.

Instead of these parents abusing a system set up for the truly disabled (after stealing it from them), they should use Disney and all of its multisensory challenges to help their children overcome their oversensitivity and temperament issues and become productive members of society like Mozart, Thomas Jefferson, Einstein, Stanley Kubrik and Bill Gates did.
 

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