Miceage Update 12/1/2015

[Mike S]

WDW in particular has been one long line of ill timed moves after the next. Fantasyland was redone moments before their first out and out fairytale hit in years. Avatar was scooped up as an answer to Potter just before Disney snatched up Lucasfilm. Jungle Book hits big and Animal Kingdom is solidly dead last in order of needing a new attraction.

It's hard to remember that in 2011 Disney was still mostly floundering around at the box office.

It's no wonder Epcot is left holding the bag these days.

Avatar is the only one that will end in a net positive imo. GotG could've very easily been put into Tomorrowland since there's ample space to choose from.* Frozen would easily pull in more business than whatever Storybook Circus pulls in.* If it were me, I would've bitten the proverbial bullet and gotten it done. Dumbo would obviously stay and I guess Goofini as well so no loss in ride capacity while it's built. Jungle Book would be a great addition to Animal Kingdom's Asia as Avatar and the night stuff alone will not be enough. Epcot is easy. Do each pavilion one at a time until it all shines like new. Sadly they continue to go the wrong way about it. All 3 parks not named Magic Kingdom need all the help they can get ASAP.

*Either one of these would've worked in DHS as well.

 

[BrianLo]

For what it's worth, was shopping around for hotel prices and had the sudden idea to check on the Carousel Inn and Suites.

Looks like they'll be closing down April 1st of next year. That sounds appropriate and consistent with the plan to have the garage up and running Spring 2018.

 

[TP2000]

For what it's worth, was shopping around for hotel prices and had the sudden idea to check on the Carousel Inn and Suites.

Looks like they'll be closing down April 1st of next year. That sounds appropriate and consistent with the plan to have the garage up and running Spring 2018.

Nice catch!

 

[Deleted member 107043]

It's a band wagon thing. It's cool to hate everything Disney has done in your lifetime and wish for a time you never experienced

The Internet has that effect on people. Someone starts an kneejerk online narrative that something is horribly wrong, makes a convincing case which people then rally around until it becomes a belief a majority embraces. Anyone who has followed Disney parks online for past decade should be familiar with this by now.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Bottom line is this.

In a Chapek/Iger world, big budget attractions can get greenlit for franchises that mint money. Not just at the box office, that's not enough. Frozen is a merch brand that rivals Disney's house of 11 princesses. Notice how Anna and Elsa have remained separate - they make more money on their own.

When Zootopia starts moving billions in merch, you can bet it will get its own expansion. That hasn't happened yet.

Chapek and Iger don't view themed entertainment as its own medium with its own merits, as @lazyboy97o has pointed out several times. The parks exist to support franchises now. So whenever someone whines about Zootopia and Big Hero 6 aren't getting theme park attractions/expansions, remind them of how Disney works in 2016.

On top of minting money in stores, the public genuinely likes Frozen. It's the Lion King hit of this generation, even bigger. An Arendelle expansion is a no brainer, even for the imagination-free leaders of the Walt Disney Company.

No question that the parks exist to support franchises today, however if merch sales + popularity equals the primary metric used to determine Disney's long term development strategies at the parks there should be a whole slew of films released over the past 30 years with major attractions in the parks by now. Should we assume that Ratatouille sold a ton of merchandise because it has an entire mini-land at DSP? In fact it didn't, nor was it a major box office blockbuster hit. Oh, and what about that awesome Tron coaster at SDL, based on a franchise that is all but dead?

There has to be some other formula the company is using to decide which film franchises get anchor attractions at which park beyond just looking at popularity and merchandise receipts.

 

[lazyboy97o]

No question that the parks exist to support franchises today, however if merch sales + popularity equals the primary metric used to determine Disney's long term development strategies at the parks there should be a whole slew of films released over the past 30 years with major attractions in the parks by now. Should we assume that Ratatouille sold a ton of merchandise because it has an entire mini-land at DSP? In fact it didn't, nor was it a major box office blockbuster hit. Oh, and what about that awesome Tron coaster at SDL, based on a franchise that is all but dead.

There has to be some other formula the company is using to decide which film franchises get anchor attractions at which park beyond just looking at popularity and merchandise receipts.

The Unites States is not France. The United States is not China and the Shanghai Disney Resort is not majority owned by The Walt Disney Company.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

No question that the parks exist to support franchises today, however if merch sales + popularity equals the primary metric used to determine Disney's long term development strategies at the parks there should be a whole slew of films released over the past 30 years with major attractions in the parks by now. Should we assume that Ratatouille sold a ton of merchandise because it has an entire mini-land at DSP? In fact it didn't, nor was it a major box office blockbuster hit. Oh, and what about that awesome Tron coaster at SDL, based on a franchise that is all but dead?

There has to be some other formula the company is using to decide which film franchises get anchor attractions at which park beyond just looking at popularity and merchandise receipts.

Ratatouille was chosen for WDS because the property is extremely popular in France, where the park is based.

Tron was selected for SDL because when the park menu was designed and finalized in 2009-2010, they didn't have any other strong IP to draw from (they were not ready to design for Marvel immediately after the merger). You can bet if SDL was in design right now, the Tron coaster would be coffee table book fodder in favor of Marvel or Star Wars. The weakness of the IP (and the ride itself, which is truly nothing special) precluded it from being built at MK and DL, where it was planned before getting killed.

The international parks, as @lazyboy97o pointed out, are not fully owned (in Tokyo's case, not owned at all) by Disney, so they are not the sole decision makers. OLC picks and chooses was Disney designs for TDR and the Chinese government calls the shots for SDL & HKDL. Paris just doesn't get much at all these days as Disney picks up the pieces there from years of neglect.

 

[Deleted member 107043]

Ratatouille was chosen for WDS because the property is extremely popular in France, where the park is based.

I'm sure it was, but according to Wikipedia the film ranks 57th in the list of highest grossing films in France. Interestingly Finding Nemo and Snow White rank higher, 33rd and 4th respectively, neither of which have attractions at the resort.

Tron was selected for SDL because when the park menu was designed and finalized in 2009-2010, they didn't have any other strong IP to draw from (they were not ready to design for Marvel immediately after the merger).

That doesn't quite add up though. If popularity + merchandise sales are the driving factors behind the decision on which franchises to use why would they even consider an IP that couldn't claim to have either one of those attributes? Something else had to be behind the decision to move forward with Tron in Shanghai.

You can bet if SDL was in design right now, the Tron coaster would be coffee table book fodder in favor of Marvel or Star Wars.

Couldn't they have built Star Tours?

The international parks, as @lazyboy97o pointed out, are not fully owned (in Tokyo's case, not owned at all) by Disney, so they are not the sole decision makers. OLC picks and chooses was Disney designs for TDR and the Chinese government calls the shots for SDL & HKDL.

OK, so there you go. It isn't just popularity + merch sales.

 

[Mike S]

I'm sure it was, but according to Wikipedia the film ranks 57th in the list of highest grossing films in France. Interestingly Finding Nemo and Snow White rank higher, 33rd and 4th respectively, neither of which have attractions at the resort.

...

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'm sure it was, but according to Wikipedia the film ranks 57th in the list of highest grossing films in France. Interestingly Finding Nemo and Snow White rank higher, 33rd and 4th respectively, neither of which have attractions at the resort.

http://www.disneylandparis.com/en-us/attractions/disneyland-park/blanche-neige-et-les-sept-nains/
http://www.disneylandparis.com/en-us/attractions/walt-disney-studios-park/crushs-coaster/

That doesn't quite add up though. If popularity + merchandise sales are the driving factors behind the decision on which franchises to use why would they even consider an IP that couldn't claim to have either one of those attributes? Something else had to be behind the decision to move forward with Tron in Shanghai.

Disney did not make the final decision. Disney's metrics are not Shanghai Shendi Group's metrics.

OK, so there you go. It isn't just popularity + merch sales.

Do you really not understand the context of parks in the United States versus the international parks with different ownership?

 

[Deleted member 107043]

I stand corrected! Totally forgot about Crush's Coaster. Thanks @Mike S

 

[Cesar R M]

Bottom line is this.

In a Chapek/Iger world, big budget attractions can get greenlit for franchises that mint money. Not just at the box office, that's not enough. Frozen is a merch brand that rivals Disney's house of 11 princesses. Notice how Anna and Elsa have remained separate - they make more money on their own.

When Zootopia starts moving billions in merch, you can bet it will get its own expansion. That hasn't happened yet.

Chapek and Iger don't view themed entertainment as its own medium with its own merits, as @lazyboy97o has pointed out several times. The parks exist to support franchises now. So whenever someone whines about Zootopia and Big Hero 6 aren't getting theme park attractions/expansions, remind them of how Disney works in 2016.

On top of minting money in stores, the public genuinely likes Frozen. It's the Lion King hit of this generation, even bigger. An Arendelle expansion is a no brainer, even for the imagination-free leaders of the Walt Disney Company.

Its not like there are tons of of plushies, shirts or memoralia for Zootopia.
They took their time with frozen until everyone was puzzled by "where the hell is the merch?".
Now the same might happen to zootopia and jungle book. Knee jerk reactions of Disney.

 

[Cesar R M]

I'm sure it was, but according to Wikipedia the film ranks 57th in the list of highest grossing films in France. Interestingly Finding Nemo and Snow White rank higher, 33rd and 4th respectively, neither of which have attractions at the resort.

Well, I dont think Finding Nemo and Snow White have anything of representation of France.
Rattatouille IS set on france.

That doesn't quite add up though. If popularity + merchandise sales are the driving factors behind the decision on which franchises to use why would they even consider an IP that couldn't claim to have either one of those attributes? Something else had to be behind the decision to move forward with Tron in Shanghai.

I wonder the same, seems they are mix and hit.
They didnt expected Frozen to explode, so they knee jerked and rushed projects.
They probably only expected a Meet and Greet like Merida and Tiana with the sisters and be done.
Meanwhile.. Zootopia seems to be a sure hit.. even bigger thaks to the *shudder* furry community.
Zootopia is pretty much the modern "Robin Hood" for them.

Couldn't they have built Star Tours?

I wonder the same, but I guess Star Tours or anything Star Wars is almost untouchable.

 

[GiveMeTheMusic]

I'm sure it was, but according to Wikipedia the film ranks 57th in the list of highest grossing films in France. Interestingly Finding Nemo and Snow White rank higher, 33rd and 4th respectively, neither of which have attractions at the resort.



That doesn't quite add up though. If popularity + merchandise sales are the driving factors behind the decision on which franchises to use why would they even consider an IP that couldn't claim to have either one of those attributes? Something else had to be behind the decision to move forward with Tron in Shanghai.



Couldn't they have built Star Tours?



OK, so there you go. It isn't just popularity + merch sales.

I should have been more clear. I'm referring to DLR (and also WDW), as that's the forum we're in. Domestic parks decisions are made by Chapek/Iger without outside influence.

Also I'm specifically referring to the Chapek/Iger era, which only began recently. You may recall that Chapek came to WDPR from DCP - he's a merch guy. Iger is a franchise guy. The two together equals the current climate. The current DLR slate is Marvel, Star Wars and Frozen. All of which are merch moving titans.

My point was that Zootopia won't get an expansion at DLR under this management unless it starts moving merch like Elsa and co., which is to say never.

When Chapek and Iger are gone, who knows what philosophy will guide whoever's in charge? But for now, expect moneymaking franchises only in the US parks.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

Bottom line is this.

In a Chapek/Iger world, big budget attractions can get greenlit for franchises that mint money. Not just at the box office, that's not enough. Frozen is a merch brand that rivals Disney's house of 11 princesses. Notice how Anna and Elsa have remained separate - they make more money on their own.

Merchandise sales seems to be even more important. Cars is no where near the most successful Pixar release at the box office (unadjusted or not, it sits at #10 behind 9 other titles), but it's moves toys like crazy. So it gets a land green lit before even the first sequel hits theatres.

 

[Variable]

http://www.disneylandparis.com/en-us/attractions/disneyland-park/blanche-neige-et-les-sept-nains/
http://www.disneylandparis.com/en-us/attractions/walt-disney-studios-park/crushs-coaster/


Disney did not make the final decision. Disney's metrics are not Shanghai Shendi Group's metrics.


Do you really not understand the context of parks in the United States versus the international parks with different ownership?

Lazy always keep in mind as you guys debate this, those international parks cannot exist without Disney. However their operating agreements are structured, their decision trees and governance, the 'official' hierarchy, the core is Disney IP and that = leverage.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Lazy always keep in mind as you guys debate this, those international parks cannot exist without Disney. However their operating agreements are structured, their decision trees and governance, the 'official' hierarchy, the core is Disney IP and that = leverage.

Disney doesn't really care if someone else is footing the bill. When someone else is willing to pay huge sums for development, management and licensing (Disney still owns whatever Walt Disney Imagineering creates for the international owners) then Disney really does not care if it fits their franchise synergy. Even then, Disney has contracts so it's not like they can threaten to just walk away from their international ventures.