Main Street U.S.A. hub redevelopment at the Magic Kingdom

[Padraig]

Two things... First if that is what inspired them, they fell a long way away from their inspiration with the exception of the spires. Second, Neuschwanstein Castle is not in a theme park with fireworks and projections on the building (although it does have a better surface for it or projection movies) nor does it have thousands of people per day that want to see it. Castles of that era were actually a fortress designed to keep enemies away and be as hidden as possible, plus when it was built, I truly doubt that those trees were that big. Since it was a residence there was no real need to make it visible.

I'm sure people would like it, either way, but, it wouldn't fill the need of the show, which WDW is completely meant to do.

I'd just like to point out that Neuschwanstein is only slightly more authentic a castle than the Cinderella Castle. It's a 19th Century romantic structure. Also real Castles for the most part were designed to be visible. They were there to project power, not to be hidden away. I remember there was a number of complaints about a castle (Tower House really) that Jeremy Irons bought near me. He painted in pink. The locals were horrified. Castles should be bare stone and grey they complained. Of course this isn't at all correct. It would have originally be painted red or pink to make it stand out.

 

[ryguy]

Question: Where are we at in the process of construction. I know two spots for sure are done and open: In front of Crystal Palace and The Plaza Restaurant. When I was there in May the front of castle was walled off along with the two spurs going towards Hall of Presidents and the Mad Tea party. Those spurs had what seemed to be control centers for possible shows and parades. Are those areas close to completion? Seems like in front of Castle should be close to being done too. Last photo I saw it appeared they had framed out a compass key in front of the stage. Any time frame when the project will be completed with no more walls? Can only assume they would like it done before the taping of the xmas parade.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Question: Where are we at in the process of construction. I know two spots for sure are done and open: In front of Crystal Palace and The Plaza Restaurant. When I was there in May the front of castle was walled off along with the two spurs going towards Hall of Presidents and the Mad Tea party. Those spurs had what seemed to be control centers for possible shows and parades. Are those areas close to completion? Seems like in front of Castle should be close to being done too. Last photo I saw it appeared they had framed out a compass key in front of the stage. Any time frame when the project will be completed with no more walls? Can only assume they would like it done before the taping of the xmas parade.

I believe it's all supposed to be finished by the end of September.

 

[Otamin]

Yowser!! Trees trees trees. 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

You want trees, go to a national park

Accept the fact that the trees of the old Hub are not coming back. What's here now is gardens, fountains, shrubs, and smaller trees. When will it be time to give this argument a rest?!?!?

Never!

To be honest I understand not having 'massive' trees (whilst I'd love to see them return), but why can't we at the very least have trees the size of those at Disneyland? They aren't very big, but it would help alleviate the horrible sightline down Main Street.

The lack of greenery is even more baffling in Town Square though, especially since last time I checked they didn't project anything onto any of the buildings.

Oh well, maybe someday someone at TDO will care about theming again...

Anyway I'll shut up for now.

 

[wdwfan757]

While I do agree that the reconstruction and lack of trees/reduction of the moat have made the hub less attractive... I think a lot of the naysayers really need to spend an early March/late december/early summer day at disneyland to realize why it had to happen sooner rather than later. Sure, disneyland's hub is better looking, but it's honestly not worth the mayhem caused by reduced walk ways and cramming people between ropes like cattle for fireworks shows. It's barely passable in Anaheim and the visiting population there tends to be a lot more homogenous and a lot more "patient"/laid-back (read. californian) than what we see on a regular basis at MK. I saw some pretty nasty verbal altercations at MK between guests and guests/CMs waiting for parades/ctm/wishes before they opened it up.

Better to have slightly let down guests seeing a barren hub at 9am and let them forget as the day progresses than have already tired guests get stepped on or have their view blocked by little-jimmy-sitting-on-dad's-shoulders at 9pm.

 

[LL2WDW]

Never!

To be honest I understand not having 'massive' trees (whilst I'd love to see them return), but why can't we at the very least have trees the size of those at Disneyland? They aren't very big, but it would help alleviate the horrible sightline down Main Street.

The lack of greenery is even more baffling in Town Square though, especially since last time I checked they didn't project anything onto any of the buildings.

I'm curious if you also think Paris, Tokyo, and Hong Kong have horrible sight lines, as there are no trees blocking their castles? I just never understand this complaint. A big castle at the end of a storybook version of Main Street is already just fantasy architecture. There are no rules that must be followed. My first thoughts when I make that turn around the Emporium are always positive, and never "well, that sight line is just awful."

Though I completely agree about the trees in Town Square.

 

[Otamin]

I'm curious if you also think Paris, Tokyo, and Hong Kong have horrible sight lines, as there are no trees blocking their castles? I just never understand this complaint. A big castle at the end of a storybook version of Main Street is already just fantasy architecture. There are no rules that must be followed. My first thoughts when I make that turn around the Emporium are always positive, and never "well, that sight line is just awful."

Though I completely agree about the trees in Town Square.

The difference is each of the parks listed have largely retained their original design intentions.

Changes have been made of course, but the changes made haven't been as drastic.

Paris

The hub in Paris was designed without the type of trees the Magic Kingdom used to have, so it works perfectly fine in my eyes.

The very fact the castle is framed into a hill also helps tremendously in cementing the castle into the land.

Tokyo

Whilst much of the trees from the above pic have now vanished, I still think it largely retains what it set out to do in the first place.

The colour scheme also helps it look a lot more "real", which is a massive advantage.

The lack of a stage also helps...

Hong Kong

If I recall correctly the park has been this way from the beginning, so what you're seeing is the vision the Imagineers had in the park.

The fact the castle is smaller and the hill is present also help to frame the castle better.

Anyway I promised myself I wouldn't keep going on, so I'll try and leave it at that. I've got some animation work to do anyway!

 

[180º]

You did. DHS had a majority of poor to average with few stand outs.

I've been told cast morale there is pretty low. Night and day compared to Epcot.

 

[note2001]

Tokyo

Whilst much of the trees from the above pic have now vanished, I still think it largely retains what it set out to do in the first place.

The colour scheme also helps it look a lot more "real", which is a massive advantage.

The lack of a stage also helps...

Wow I don't keep up with the international parks very well - what did they do to Toyko? It might be that it's a closer zoom to the castle, but the updated pic in the link makes it look like a mess, and it's not just a tree thing. I certainly hope the Magic Kingdom, WDW never gets that bad.

 

[lazyboy97o]

A big castle at the end of a storybook version of Main Street is already just fantasy architecture. There are no rules that must be followed.

The Castle at the end of Main Street, USA is nothing close to "just fantasy" and is very much following rules. Main Streets were aligned with important civic structures that were a built display of the community values. Early, more religious minded communities organized their towns around a church.
The emphasis shifted to republicanism as the country moved westward and the church was replaced by the courthouse. At a Magic Kingdom the church and courthouse are replaced by the Fantasyland Castle. As discussed earlier in regards to Neuschwanstein, these are not medieval defense fortifications, but romantic interpretations. The architecture of the Castles therefore is very much of the late 19th century like the rest of Main Street, USA; all coming from the same series of architectural styles and revivals.

 

[Otamin]

Wow I don't keep up with the international parks very well - what did they do to Toyko? It might be that it's a closer zoom to the castle, but the updated pic in the link makes it look like a mess, and it's not just a tree thing. I certainly hope the Magic Kingdom, WDW never gets that bad.

In what respect? The photographer did add a strange filter to the picture if that's what you mean.

 

[LL2WDW]

The Castle at the end of Main Street, USA is nothing close to "just fantasy" and is very much following rules. Main Streets were aligned with important civic structures that were a built display of the community values. Early, more religious minded communities organized their towns around a church.
The emphasis shifted to republicanism as the country moved westward and the church was replaced by the courthouse. At a Magic Kingdom the church and courthouse are replaced by the Fantasyland Castle. As discussed earlier in regards to Neuschwanstein, these are not medieval defense fortifications, but romantic interpretations. The architecture of the Castles therefore is very much of the late 19th century like the rest of Main Street, USA; all coming from the same series of architectural styles and revivals.

What I meant by "fantasy", was that a giant European inspired castle would never be at the end of an American Main Street. Also, it's a theme park, and there are no "rules" stating that tress must partially obstruct the view from down the road. So having a direct view of it, doesn't make it horrible. One may prefer an obstructed view, but I don't feel sight lines are ruined by not having them there.

Though judging from all your words, me thinks you will not agree with what I'm saying.

 

[note2001]

In what respect? The photographer did add a strange filter to the picture if that's what you mean.

I'm seeing benches, towers, lots of structural elements that are detracting from the view of the castle. In the older image we see more of an open area framed by the green, the newer one doesn't have that. Again, I do believe it's in part due to the zoom - those trees do seem to be somewhere on the outside of the image, but not really showing.

We are getting the towers, although nicer... I'm just hoping we don't' get the same clutter feel.

 

[LL2WDW]

The difference is each of the parks listed have largely retained their original design intentions.

Changes have been made of course, but the changes made haven't been as drastic.

Paris

The hub in Paris was designed without the type of trees the Magic Kingdom used to have, so it works perfectly fine in my eyes.

The very fact the castle is framed into a hill also helps tremendously in cementing the castle into the land.

Tokyo

Whilst much of the trees from the above pic have now vanished, I still think it largely retains what it set out to do in the first place.

The colour scheme also helps it look a lot more "real", which is a massive advantage.

The lack of a stage also helps...

Hong Kong

If I recall correctly the park has been this way from the beginning, so what you're seeing is the vision the Imagineers had in the park.

The fact the castle is smaller and the hill is present also help to frame the castle better.

Anyway I promised myself I wouldn't keep going on, so I'll try and leave it at that. I've got some animation work to do anyway!

All very valid points. Do you not like the view down Main Street at MK at all? Does the direct view of the castle really bother you? If, for example, the large trees had never been there to begin with, would you feel the same way?

I'm simply curious, not arguing.

 

[danlb_2000]

An additional permit was filed for the stage today which expires on 11/17/2015.

1400 Magic Kingdom Dr - Castle Stage Power

 

[Otamin]

I'm seeing benches, towers, lots of structural elements that are detracting from the view of the castle. In the older image we see more of an open area framed by the green, the newer one doesn't have that. Again, I do believe it's in part due to the zoom - those trees do seem to be somewhere on the outside of the image, but not really showing.

We are getting the towers, although nicer... I'm just hoping we don't' get the same clutter feel.

I assume those benches are temporary, although I could be wrong.

I don't actually think it looks too bad in general, although I definitely agree with the towers.

All very valid points. Do you not like the view down Main Street at MK at all? Does the direct view of the castle really bother you? If, for example, the large trees had never been there to begin with, would you feel the same way?

I'm simply curious, not arguing.

I'd most certainly feel the same way, yes.

The concrete horizon just looks incredibly bizarre to me, although I know most are fine with it.

The grotesque stage certainly isn't helping matters either.

 

[lazyboy97o]

What I meant by "fantasy", was that a giant European inspired castle would never be at the end of an American Main Street

No, it would a fantastical, European inspired courthouse. The Castle fills a typological position and shares in the architectural aesthetic.

 

[Sage of Time]

North west corner today. Not long now.

View attachment 108531

Looks VERY nice. I really like how this project turned out.

No, it would a fantastical, European inspired courthouse. The Castle fills a typological position and shares in the architectural aesthetic.

That's exactly what Jeff Kurtti calls it in Since the World Began.

 

[JoeCamel]

OK, I have to comment. The new view is a direct view of the castle down main street, the original had some mystery with the castle spires rising above a grove of trees at the end of Main Street. It inspires fantasy as if you were on a small town main street looking down and imagining if maybe a castle was there visible through the trees. That view is gone never to return. (have to add I think this was the view Walt thought of).

I get why, they want to do the castle projections and have more viewing area but the whole magic of venturing down an American Main Street into the realm of fantasy is lost. Going through the castle and entering the land of Peter Pan, Snow White and Mr. Toad is lost forever in favor of the digital age.

OK, the castle is a big screen what will come next is up to the planners. What was is lost is lost for all time.

 

[Brian]

OK, I have to comment. The new view is a direct view of the castle down main street, the original had some mystery with the castle spires rising above a grove of trees at the end of Main Street. It inspires fantasy as if you were on a small town main street looking down and imagining if maybe a castle was there visible through the trees. That view is gone never to return. (have to add I think this was the view Walt thought of).

What was is lost is lost for all time.

They can plop a couple trees there overnight if they wanted to. Let's not be overdramatic.

I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but who's to say that as the entertainment/guest needs of the park change, the trees won't change too?