Looking for thoughts on DVC

[Woody13]

Also, I dont think Woody factored in the rising cost of lodging. Consider what the cost of one night will be at a value resort in 5-10 years......probably will be double.

Well, actually, I have figured in the cost of inflation. The first DVC offered was OKW back in 1991. I was at WDW with my checkbook in hand and ready to buy. It sold for $51.00 a point back then. Fast forward 15 years and the asking price for OKW points averages $75.00 per point. That hasn't even kept pace with the normal inflation rate of 3% per year! In other words, people that own OKW contracts have actually lost money on them during the last 15 years (and they're going to lose a lot more, but I'll get to that later)! Fortunately, I had a good real estate attorney review the DVC contract back in 1991 and she advised me not to buy so I took her advice.

Also, if you look at the cost of lodging at the WDW from 1991 to the present, you'll find that it has actually remained rather static because the entire area is way overbuilt with too many rooms. I have never paid rack rate for any accommodations at WDW. I have stayed in DVC resorts on many occasions, as a renter. The normal asking price for renting in $10.00 per point, but I've never paid that much. I normally pay $6.00 to $7.00 per point.

DVC points for rent are more than abundant. When our family goes to WDW, we enjoy staying at different resorts. We all have AP's so we normally go 3 to 4 times per year. Sometimes we stay at value resorts or moderates, while other times we go for the deluxe resorts. Sometimes we rent DVC points and other times we stay at one of the Hotel Plaza Blvd. Resorts. However, sometimes things just don't work out. We tried to go to WDW 3 times during 2004. We had our reservations made and were ready to go, but on each occasion a last minute emergency kept us at home (hurricane Ivan for one example). We were able to cancel our reservations in each case without any cost or penalty!

So, as I see it, the DVC is very expensive for what you get. Yet you can still experience the DVC in all its glory by renting points from an owner without all the downside and expense that goes with ownership. Also the DVC members that own OKW are just into their 15th year of ownership. What's going to happen to those contracts when they turn 20 years old? Who will want to purchase a resale of an OKW contract with half the time already gone? The DVC can't continue price supports on these contracts forever. Financially, the DVC makes little sense. If you want a timeshare then Orange Lake is a much better deal.

Also, at the current rate, it will take 24 years for the price of a room to double at WDW.:wave:

 

[Craig & Lisa]

DVC, yes is not for everyone, but for those who can afford it like the wife and I, it has been the best thing for us to get into. No regrets, and we have saved so much $$$$ over the last couple of years. For us it used to be we had to save for airfare, lodging, food, park tickets, now lodging is cut out we can stay at the moderate resorts and not starve ourselves thru the year so we can go. Then we also get certain discounts so more money can be saved again, then the big thing because it is a mortgage you can enter it on your taxes, another savings, some of the math is hard to deal with but in the long run it has been again the best thing for us. In fact in Nov. we are going to buy into more so we can bring family members to enjoy Disney too. Believe me we were not sure if we did the right thing until we went for the first time, then we could see it was worth it.:kiss:

 

[lilphil6487]

heres my say in this. my family can now stay at places such as OKW now. we used to just stay at value and moderate resorts, but with DVC, we have the minimal points you can get but we are banking points to get a 3 bedroom grand villa next summer at OKW which, if we didnt have DVC, would never happen. we would still be staying in value resorts or offsite. It really does save you money. IT pays for itself after a certain amount of trips just like a season pass to six flags. Dont make comments on my post unless they are positive please. Thank you

 

[lilphil6487]

plus this summer we are staying at Saratoga Springs and Vero Beach( 3days at each) so it is worth it. Especially w/ our current financial situation, we couldnt go if we didnt have DVC. some may say it is bad if u dont have the right finances, but you get to stay at nice places that you normally couldnt and saves you money after you use it enough.

 

[Woody13]

Woody man you really have a hang up on this one. But you are VERY wrong. DVC is better then buying a car/boat/truck. You cant compare dvc to those items.

Actually, it's a very good comparison because your DVC membership depreciates over time because you don't actually own any property (i.e. fee simple title). What you own is actually a right to use (RTU) lease. With each tick of the clock, the value of your DVC membership declines, unlike other true real estate interests or real investments. You, along with other DVC members, are paying a very high premium for your WDW resort accommodations and at the end of the contract, you lose everything but your fond memories.

BTW just look how fast new dvc resorts sell out so not many people think the same twisted way you do about dvc.

I don't think it's twisted to save money and also have the freedom to choose where I want to stay. I have the flexibility to stay at any WDW resort I desire (including DVC resorts) and pay the price I desire to pay (which is much lower than what any DVC member pays). I can shop for the best deal and I really enjoy staying at different resorts rather than being locked into DVC resorts.

At the age of 28 i have till the year 2042 to use my DVC contract its already paid for and i have already gotten my money back by going a 1 or 2 times a year.

I understand why some people think they are saving money. When you compare the rack rates charged at WDW deluxe resorts against the DVC membership charges, the DVC certainly seems to be the better choice. I've seen a bunch of DVC analysis spreadsheets showing the savings of the DVC over other WDW deluxe resorts. But all those spreadsheets have the same error in common. They compare the DVC rates to the other Disney deluxe resort rack rates during peak season! Now, I've been a regular visitor to WDW for over 25 years and I have never paid rack rates for any WDW resort at any time of the year. WDW resort room discounts are ubiquitous. Who pays rack rates? Only DVC members pay rack rates!

If you take those same DVC analysis spreadsheets and replace the WDW deluxe resort rates with the actual going rates, the comparison isn't even close. The DVC costs far exceed the "normal" WDW deluxe resort rates.

 

[wired]

thanks Woody, you make a lot of sense.


TW

 

[socalkdg]

Actually, it's a very good comparison because your DVC membership depreciates over time because you don't actually own any property (i.e. fee simple title). What you own is actually a right to use (RTU) lease. With each tick of the clock, the value of your DVC membership declines, unlike other true real estate interests or real investments. You, along with other DVC members, are paying a very high premium for your WDW resort accommodations and at the end of the contract, you lose everything but your fond memories.


I don't think it's twisted to save money and also have the freedom to choose where I want to stay. I have the flexibility to stay at any WDW resort I desire (including DVC resorts) and pay the price I desire to pay (which is much lower than what any DVC member pays). I can shop for the best deal and I really enjoy staying at different resorts rather than being locked into DVC resorts.



I understand why some people think they are saving money. When you compare the rack rates charged at WDW deluxe resorts against the DVC membership charges, the DVC certainly seems to be the better choice. I've seen a bunch of DVC analysis spreadsheets showing the savings of the DVC over other WDW deluxe resorts. But all those spreadsheets have the same error in common. They compare the DVC rates to the other Disney deluxe resort rack rates during peak season! Now, I've been a regular visitor to WDW for over 25 years and I have never paid rack rates for any WDW resort at any time of the year. WDW resort room discounts are ubiquitous. Who pays rack rates? Only DVC members pay rack rates!

If you take those same DVC analysis spreadsheets and replace the WDW deluxe resort rates with the actual going rates, the comparison isn't even close. The DVC costs far exceed the "normal" WDW deluxe resort rates.

Lets count the number of your errors.

1 - DVC membership depreciates over time

So far OKW memberships have increased by 50% in value in the last 10 years. Error 1


2 - Only DVC members pay rack rates!

DVC members get 25% off of any DVC room if they want to pay cash. Error 2


3 - WDW deluxe resort rates with the actual going rates, the comparison isn't even close. The DVC costs far exceed the "normal" WDW deluxe resort rates.

I can stay in a studio at Beach Club or Boardwalk for 9 days for 150 points. Currently points cost about $6 per point(150 pts x 50 years = 7500 pts; 150 points x $95 per point = $14250 / 7500 = $1.9 per point + $4.00 maint). So for 9 days I get a room there for $900, or $100 per night. Thats over 50% off of rack rate. Error 3

So go every year, stay at a deluxe at what you think is a great discount of $175-225 per night, buy your AP pass for $100 more than me, continue thinking you are getting a great deal, enjoy. I know I will.

 

[dflye]

Regardless of how you booked a stay at a DVC resort, whether by using your own points, renting points, getting a discounted rate, or paying the full fare, you still have the potential to save a serious boat-load of money during your stay by using the kitchen and dining room that is found in any DVC room larger than a studio!

One trip a few years ago, I rented a grand villa at OKW using my points (and as Woody13 stated, avoided Friday and Saturday like the plague where possible.) We had 12 people staying there for 6 nights, so we made use of the kitchen after stocking up on supplies at the local Costco/Sam's/BJ's/bulk-club-du-jour.

We spent maybe 300 on groceries, which was enough for:

• breakfast for 12 for every day (scrambled eggs, bacon, french toast, pancakes, cereal, bagels, whatever the chef of the day in our group cooked up)
• a packed lunch and snack (sandwich w/o mayo, apples, grapes, oranges, chips, crackers, cookies, LOTS of semi-frozen bottles of water, juice, etc)
• dinner back at the resort with some entree that was in the crock-pot all day, such as beef stroganoff, pot roast, etc, plus a bunch of easy sides like canned veggies and rolls.

While 300 may seem like a lot for groceries, the one night we ate out for dinner, the tab for 12 of us wa WAY over 300.

So, in my mind, the access to a kitchen more than pays for the cost of my DVC points and dues, as I won't find a kitchen staying elsewhere on property.

 

[DisneyFreak529]

My Mother in law joined in 2003 and didn't get that much savings on her hotel. In fact she got a better deal with a 4 star hotel just 3 miles away from Disney World with out being in a club.
When we got to WDW there were only a small handfull of eatting locations that let you save money. I rememeber that Crystals Palace was one of them.

We didn't save on any of the stores expect the main Disney Store in down town Disney, even then it was only 10%.

Over all we didn't think it was worth the time and money to sign up or pay if you are only going once a year.

 

[Aurora_25]

My Mother in law joined in 2003 and didn't get that much savings on her hotel. In fact she got a better deal with a 4 star hotel just 3 miles away from Disney World with out being in a club.
When we got to WDW there were only a small handfull of eatting locations that let you save money. I rememeber that Crystals Palace was one of them.

We didn't save on any of the stores expect the main Disney Store in down town Disney, even then it was only 10%.

Over all we didn't think it was worth the time and money to sign up or pay if you are only going once a year.

Honestly, if you stay off property then you are right, it's not a better deal. If you stay on property and go to the Moderate or Deluxe resorts (without getting the Florida resident rate) then it is worth it- at least to most people in the DVC. To us- it's the reason we can go year after year rather than once every 3 years or so. We will be able to go back more than once a year now because the hotel part is taken care of- that was always a big part of our expenses before and now that we have DVC it's not as big a deal. The DVC is not for everyone and honestly, I don't expect people to join because I say it's great. It's great for us and to me that's all that matters.

 

[RickEff]

I think the bottom line is that DVC isn't for everyone.

It's not JUST a financial investment, it's a vacation investment. People can throw spreadsheets around to prove a point, but even that misses the point. Consider inflation or CPI as much as you'd like - that means average wages and dollar values follow along.

I think it's very rare that someone looks at DVC as an investment. It's like buying a nice car - it loses value right away, but we still buy the nice cars anyway. We buy it for totally impractical reasons. On a smaller note, there may be something to that with DVC. There are cheaper timeshares for sure, but they're not in WDW nor do they have that illusive "magic" that comes along with it. For me, DVC works. I've also heard very few people ever lament about their purchase once they've made it. The most common comment is, "I wish I'd done this sooner," quickly followed by, "I wish I bought more points."

To each, their own.