Discussion in 'Imagineer' started by stitchcastle, Mar 21, 2005.
Same, though it's the "how" part that is making me think.
I've got a question, guys...
In his excellent EPCOT Manifesto, sshindel proposed creating a whole new Festival Center for EPCOT. Taking up the space where the Equatorial Africa pavilion would have gone, this Festival Center would take inspiration from the 1964 World's Fair, complete with Carousel of Progress being moved over from Magic Kingdom, a restaurant inspired by "it's a small world", and a Festival Center made to look like the Tower of Light, with the whole thing being marked by a replica of the Tower of the Four Winds.
My question is: could something like this work for EPCOT Center and World Showcase, or would you rather the space be used for new countries?
It's funny in the Club 32 thread we were actually thinking of doing a World's Fair mini-land -- something very similar to this!
I think it could work -- but in World Showcase I wish there were more countries. It's a tough placement...but I wonder if this could go in the World Showcase Festival Center (in-between UK/Canada) rather than take the space of a potential country?
That's the thing...he chose the Equatorial Africa spot because that has enough space for a Carousel of Progress, a restaurant the size of the old Oddysey, a Festival Center as big as Wonders of Life, a Belgian Waffle stand--fittingly near Germany--and a New York State Pavilion replica for entertainment).
My biggest concern is that, should they add more pavilions to the Showcase, it would throw off the Feng Shui of it. If we, much like we do with the International Gateway, don't consider it an official part of World Showcase, that wouldn't be a problem, since we'd still have five pavilions on either side of The American Adventure. But, should we add another, it would throw it all off.
I also have another question: should the pavilion count ever go up, do you think it would be wise to remove the Royal Sommerhus to make way for a new one?
I'm not the biggest fan of that idea -- mainly because a New York State Pavilion isn't a country -- so that kinda throws off the point of World Showcase.
A World's Fair Mini-Land is nice, but if on the World Showcase promenade and not tucked away somewhere...it might throw it all off, in my opinion.
Y'all, I think this is our longest running thread.
You're correct! It is!
In my dream EPCOT, this festival center would be either where America is. This pavilion would be called hub of the World, and would probably feature a clone of it's a small world (it fits much better here) and maybe a restaurant like this which I designed for the House Cup
I would have CoP be in the innoventions area (maybe even slightly underground?
Some of the Silly Symphony cartoons needs more represention at WDW and HS would fit. Maybe as a replacement for Animation Courtyard mixed with Disney cartoons of the 1930's - 1950's.
This is what I would do:
Magic Kingdom area:
1. More sit down restaurants. Maybe another proper Italian restaurant, something that doesn't have to be super themed.
2. Indiana Jones in Adventureland. You could walk through the Jungle Cruise(over bridges and along walkways) to go into an underground temple(where the whole ride is actually underground, so views from outside the park arent ruined), it would be a similar ride to that at Disneyland, maybe with a new storyline.
3. Elongate the Seven Dwarfs Mine Train - it's way too short. It currently has two sections to it, before and after the mine, I would add an underground section in the mine. You currently enter the mine before turning left and then up the lift hill, I would change it so you go right, see the same mining operation mirrored from before, before going down again instead of up a lift hill, you would go past glowing gems while you go through this section, before meeting up with an elongated second lift hill, where you could go into the same final outdoor section. The exterior would stay exactly the same, everything new would be below everyone's feet.
4. Replace the Tomorrow Speedway. It would need to be replaced with something all electric, fast paced and exciting, yet still stay retro - so a Tron ride wouldn't work here, it's too modern futuristic, and Space Mountain is already there as a dark ride roller coaster, and it would need to be transport based(probably) or have some real connection to a retro future, maybe something like Rocket Rods(but actually good). Or the submarine voyage returning, that would work well.
5. Fix Tomorrowland Transit Authority Peoplemover. It keeps breaking down, and I really enjoy it.
6. I would create a new land behind fantasy land. I have no idea what the theme would be - include a roller coaster, a dark ride, and something else.
7. A new luxury hotel between the Transportation and Ticket Office and the Contemporary, which could connect with Monorail.
8. Remake Pirates of the Caribbean with better tech and an actually storyline(I still enjoy it now, it could just use an upgrade).
Epcot needs to both stand by its original ideologies, and appeal to visitors - so it still has to be about the world and the future, but it needs to have a range of rides to bring people in, ones which are related to its ideologies. I think it shouldn't have too many references to films in terms of its attractions, as thats what the other parks have, I wouldn't enjoy epcot if it were full of film related rides(a few is fine), as it would defeat the point of Epcot.
1. Test Track, Mission Space, The Land and The Seas are all great at the moment, maybe clean everything up, make everything still look quite retro futuristic, but with some modernity(small touches, like large floor to ceiling windows). I would keep all the building in the middle of future world, just clean them up.
2. Ellen's Energy Adventure would have to go, maybe replaced by a fast paced time travelling ride(indoor), as I could see something like that fitting in well. Some people have said a Guardians of the Galaxy ride, but(even if Disney had the rights to use that in Orlando) that wouldn't fit in at Epcot, it would fit in, however, at Hollywood Studios.
3. The Imagination pavillion should keep the building, but build a ride based on Inside Out, which explores the senses and the mind, but might have some sort of twist.
4. Innoventions should be moved to the old Wonders of Life pavillion, and updated dramatically, so that it is a fairly major pavillion. I would also add a large new building out the back of the new Innoventions building, which would house a lab where innovation would actually be taking place(like improving efficiency of renewable energy production, something that can be applied to the real world, and is applied to the real world), this could have a ride touring it and showing latest innovations.
5. I would add an attraction inside the old Innoventions building, it would be a dark ride with a theme that I can't think of, maybe an omnimover ride.
6. Spaceship Earth should be renovated, but the ride shoukd stay about the same, the same scenes with improved animatronics, a more reliable omnimover system, etc. It still has to look right, so not too high tech or anything, very similar to what it is now.
7. The World Showcase needs improving as well. Trackless ratatouille ride in France, Soarin' over the UK, a Japanese ride that is relevant to their culture(maybe a dark ride storytelling ancient Japanese legends or myths that could put you in the middle of the action - same with China), and an attraction at every pavillion, however small. A Switzerland pavillion could be created with a recreation of the Matterhorn bobsleds at Disneyland, try not change it that much from the Disneyland version - hopefully this wouldn't scar the view from future would, or from other pavillions.
8. The Odyssey restaurant should be renovated and made a really high tech, modern restaurant serving both quite normal, and futuristic food and drink(sit-down).
As much as I'd enjoy a Tron coaster, I don't think it would fit in the retro futuristic style of Tomorrowland or Future World in Epcot(as Test Track is already great). It could go alongside Test Track maybe, launch, loop around the test track building, before going inside in a building behind Test Track. It could, however, go nicely in Hollywood Studios.
1. A Tron coaster, which would fit in well with the park, as it also wouldn't fit in in Tomorrowland or Future World.
2. Bring back the Car stunt show and tram tour.
3. Radiator Spring Racers and Cars Land.
4. Various dark rides should be built.
1. Animal Kingdom is fairly perfect now that it has Avatar - lots of thrill rides, dark rides, and the zoo attraction.
1. Keep DisneyQuest, but completely remake it so it is extremely high tech.
1. Expand the monorail so that theres an express line(Magic Kingdom, Transportation and Ticket Office, Epcot, Hollywood Studios, Blizzard Beach, Animal Kingdom), then another line(Epcot, Typhoon Lagoon, Disney Springs), then loops going round Disney Springs hotels, around Epcot hotels, and around Animal Kingdom and Hollywood Studios hotels.
2. High speed travel link between Future World and Tomorrowland.
Welcome to Imagineering @Benjlufc !
These are some awesome ideas! I think you'll really enjoy this forum
I think that a pavillion like this wouldn't work, and it would defeat the point of there being countries around the World Showcase, I just think it would be at all popular. A new country(or just developing current countries) would be more interesting and more popular, and would fit in better at Epcot - this country would have to have a ride or attraction of some sort, like a Switzerland pavillion with the Matterhorn Bobsleds, or adding a Ratatouille ride to the France pavillion, or a ride visiting sights and landscapes in the UK.
After thinking about this, I have to say, you're doing well for a newcomer. I mean, most of your ideas for WDW are actually pretty good.
So I just got back from Disney over the weekend and I find anytime I visit I always have so many things I want to improve. Chief among them: Something has to be done about the outrageous wait times. Universal's forth coming "queue-less" system might be the start of something but I do feel like something drastic has to be done as the whole experience of waiting in line for two hours at a time in the hot florida sun is very problematic.
The most immediate and obvious things to do are expanding capacity resort-wide, making park-hopping significantly easier and smoother, and, here's the biggie, getting rid of fast-pass. It may be a decent premium service to have but if you have a ride that is designed to be a people eater hampered by having two lines operating, with one significantly shorter than the other, it just slows both lines down. It's a major reason why standing in line for a ride in Disneyland is much less annoying than standing in line for a ride at WDW. Even the psychological impact it has for guests in the stand-by line bitterly standing there as the fast-pass plus folk go whooshing by in their queue is frustrating.
The other major thing I've noticed is that EPCOT desperately needs a park-wide makeover. World Showcase is actually fine. There's a very unique charm to being able to visit different countries and experience different cultures on such a small scale like that. The various festivals the park puts together always plays well to World Showcase's strengths. If anything, it needs an even more diverse selection of countries to be added to its roster. All the old proposed pavillions: Russia, Switzerland, Brazil, Equatorial Africa (yes, we need a second African pavillion to do justice to the specific cultures of the continent, Africa is more than just its animals) would be a welcome addition. The real problem area is Futureworld.
Future World oddly needs to look back into its past to understand what it was meant to be: a permanent World's Fair that was to showcase the marvels of modern and future technology. Disney even has the intellectual property now to really drive that point home. Marvel characters would be a fresh enough and relevant property to introduce guests to the marvels of modern science and engineering. While Pixar characters from Inside Out and Monsters Inc. would be great ambassadors to explore the insights of Psychology and Imagination, respectively.
Anyway I'm going to sit on this for a while and then maybe do some sketches for overhauling EPCOT. But those are my thoughts for now.
I don't think A World's Fair type mini land going into World Showcase is a good idea for a couple of reasons: As already mentioned I think it would disrupt the flow of the specific country-named pavilions and would stick out as something that doesn't belong. In terms of the Feng Shui, those plots were always meant to be occupied by full-on countries. the only solution would be to add even more to balance it out further, which i think should be done hehe.
Second, Future World itself was meant to be a permanent World's Fair type area. I do believe that the Carousel of Progress and It's A Small World ought to be relocated to EPCOT and find anew home in Futureworld just to hammer in the thesis of what the park was meant to be.
I personally still believe that a Switzerland Pavillion with a Matterhorn and adding Mount Fuji to Japan like they were all meant to be, would make for such a striking view of World Showcase:
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