News Swan and Dolphin Tower Expansion - The Walt Disney World Swan Reserve

[MisterPenguin]

Sorry about the thread bump, but just got some info on this. It will be a new hotel tower. It is NOT an extension of the Swan & Dolphin. That is basically all I know.

But according to @marni1971 , the land is owned by the Swolphin owners. So... what is meant by "not an extension of the Swan & Dolphin?" That it's not going to be called Swan and/or Dolphin? That's it's not going to be a Westin or a Sheraton but some other Marriott brand? That Marriott isn't involved at all?

 

[NiarrNDisney]

Could it just have to do with site lines from the new CSR Tower addition?

 

[MisterPenguin]

Could it just have to do with site lines from the new CSR Tower addition?

No, @marni1971 said there is definitely plans for a tower on that site. (Keep in mind, plans can change.)

 

[NiarrNDisney]

No, @marni1971 said there is definitely plans for a tower on that site. (Keep in mind, plans can change.)

Oh ok! Still just seem like such a small plot of land to make a tower as grand or substantial as the Dolphin or Swan

 

[MisterPenguin]

Oh ok! Still just seem like such a small plot of land to make a tower as grand or substantial as the Dolphin or Swan

It would have a larger footprint than the Dolphin (minus the conference center).

See here: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-fantasia-gardens.908737/page-16#post-7529936

 

[NiarrNDisney]

It would have a larger footprint than the Dolphin (minus the conference center).

See here: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...-fantasia-gardens.908737/page-16#post-7529936

Wow now thats surprising! Just hope Fantasia Gardens doesnt get the ax in the process though it may be better relocated to Disney Springs or maybe closer to the Boardwalk.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Sorry about the thread bump, but just got some info on this. It will be a new hotel tower. It is NOT an extension of the Swan & Dolphin. That is basically all I know.

From what I was told, the hotel will be owned by the same companies. But will not be a direct extension of the S&D. That is all I know at the moment.

 

[halltd]

But according to @marni1971 , the land is owned by the Swolphin owners. So... what is meant by "not an extension of the Swan & Dolphin?" That it's not going to be called Swan and/or Dolphin? That's it's not going to be a Westin or a Sheraton but some other Marriott brand? That Marriott isn't involved at all?

@marni1971 , Where do you see this land as being Tishman? When I look on Orange County's website, only the tennis court comes up as Tishman. The rest shows as WDP&R. Unless we're talking where one of their pools is across the road.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Perhaps it is the long-awaited Naked Mole-Rat Resort?

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

The tower (if built) will be an extension of the Swan although not physically connected. Think mostly suite product and a rooftop restaurant. It will be much smaller than the two existing buildings but nearly the same height as the Swan.

A lot is still being formalized

 

[TarzanRocked99-]

@marni1971 , Where do you see this land as being Tishman? When I look on Orange County's website, only the tennis court comes up as Tishman. The rest shows as WDP&R. Unless we're talking where one of their pools is across the road.

Tishman has that entire plot, they gave part of the land back to Disney in the 90's for the addition of Fantasia Gardens and at the same time constructed the GArden Pavillions which both entities share.

 

[Movielover]

Clearly the balloons are the start of the long awaited Up attraction, of course the amount of balloons was cut due to budget concerns...

 

[NiarrNDisney]

Tishman has that entire plot, they gave part of the land back to Disney in the 90's for the addition of Fantasia Gardens and at the same time constructed the Garden Pavillions which both entities share.

The Garden Pavilions are such eyesores anyway that if they decide to rip them out and put the BAH there I would not have a problem with it!

 

[Goob]

What is BAH?

 

[NiarrNDisney]

What is BAH?

Big A$$ Hat (old park icon for DHS)

 

[abucha]

@marni1971 , Where do you see this land as being Tishman? When I look on Orange County's website, only the tennis court comes up as Tishman. The rest shows as WDP&R. Unless we're talking where one of their pools is across the road.

Tishman has that entire plot, they gave part of the land back to Disney in the 90's for the addition of Fantasia Gardens and at the same time constructed the GArden Pavillions which both entities share.

Orange County GIS and tax records show all of this land as being owned in fee simple by Disney. The hotel parcel was leased to Dolphin Hotel Associates in 1988. Tishman is one of the general partners. That is simply the Ground Lease. When you begin to get involved in building leases, sub-leases, licenses and franchises it would become even more complicated. Long story short - technically Disney owns all of that land, but leasehold rights exist. You would need to read the entire lease, amendments and sublease plus any additional agreements to ascertain who can build what and where.

 

[halltd]

Orange County GIS and tax records show all of this land as being owned in fee simple by Disney. The hotel parcel was leased to Dolphin Hotel Associates in 1988. Tishman is one of the general partners. That is simply the Ground Lease. When you begin to get involved in building leases, sub-leases, licenses and franchises it would become even more complicated. Long story short - technically Disney owns all of that land, but leasehold rights exist. You would need to read the entire lease, amendments and sublease plus any additional agreements to ascertain who can build what and where.

I'm just saying the mailing address for everything except for Fantasia Gardens is "Tishman". So, that lends me to believe that's the leased land. If it directs to the tax dept at WDW, which is how all of Disney's normal property is addressed, I tend to think this is not Tishman-leased land. Not saying your incorrect, but the pattern seems off. I'll trust those that seem to be in the know. I guess WDW could always decide to lease them more land as well. So if it's not theirs now, it could be soon.

 

[abucha]

I tend to think this is not Tishman-leased land

From the current public records, that does appear to be correct if we are talking about that one parcel in particular. I was just speaking to the situation in general with Disney owning the property and "Dolphin Hotel Asso." and "Swan Hotel Asso." as leaseholders. For all I know, a new lease has already been executed and signed, but not put on record yet, or put on record with an entirely new leaseholder.

 

[MisterPenguin]

So now that I've been playing with Google Earth Pro more, I thought I scope out where the height balloons were. Going by the various photos, here's the balloon placement:

At least, generally. The wind was moving them around.

This does lend credence to what @marni1971 and @TarzanRocked99- were saying about a tight fit for a tower.

So, let's drop a tower in...

The footprint of the tower (without the porch) is 1.1 acres. The footprint of the Swan is 1.3 acres. Theoretically, if it's taller than the Swan, it would have just about as many rooms as the Swan... unless it's going to be a luxe niche brand of Marriott with large suites as I read on a Twitter post from a Marriott insider. But, things change, brands could change, footprint could change, roadways could change, OR... nothing happens.

 

[UpAllNight]

I hope whatever it is, it isn't as ugly as the Swan and Dolphin