Express Transportation - The Most Magical Experience at WDW

[RustySpork]

I know you're being facetious, but there reason it works is because there are so few people. The minute it starts getting super popular, you have the issues you have right now...it can't become a second regular bus process.

They're Disney, they could make it work and make it work well. I'd even settle for a slow to access bus from the back of each park.

 

[Chef Mickey]

They're Disney, they could make it work and make it work well. I'd even settle for a slow to access bus from the back of each park.

I'd like it too, but judging by the backstage area, it's pretty clear they don't want masses of people back there. There is stuff everywhere and I could see people taking pictures, getting hurt, and exploring unauthorized.

 

[RustySpork]

I'd like it too, but judging by the backstage area, it's pretty clear they don't want masses of people back there. There is stuff everywhere and I could see people taking pictures, getting hurt, and exploring unauthorized.

Makes sense.

 

[flynnibus]

The ETA thing might be something they could implement, but I think you just open yourself up to a lot of complaining if the info isn't exactly right. It could create new problems because people will try to time it more.

WiFi is a non factor to me and not a bus issue. Covered bus stops need to happen, but more of an infrastructure issue, not exactly a problem with how buses operate. ECV is about as quick as it will ever be unless they start doing ECV buses, which I think could work with some creativity.

The other things you mention I don't see as major issues. I think they have good bus only lanes and I think the the waiting for a bus issue is minimal. I never feel like I'm waiting too long for a bus, honestly. I think we are just in disagreement on how well the system current works. The only issue I have is how crowded they are and kind of unpredictable on timing. They solved it with express, but I don't think that solution is possible on a mass scale because you have inherent problems when moving a lot of people.

Funny.. you pointed out the covered waiting as a benefit in your list...
And you asked what could make it better.. not 'what chef mickey thinks is necessary' (otherwise you could have just told us your list)
Wifi is a perk they offer throughout the system... it makes sense to extend it to the transportation too. It's another example of where WDW is behind the curve in transportation instead of leading it.

In fact everything on that list is examples of things other systems are doing.. and successfully... yet WDW doesn't. Their system is behind the average when it comes to innovation and their service level is only passable. You got on another system that was impressive.. because surprise... it did things BETTER than the normal buses. That's the root thing here... you saw a glimpse of how things COULD be.

Complaining about ETAs? Funny, doesn't hold back other successful systems from using it to success. sure, some systems that are bad get people discounting their ETAs, but others it works great. The failure of one, doesn't mean they all fail.

No WAY you can say their bus service "sucks" compared to major cities. I live in a top 5 city and the bus service is a total joke, no comparison to Disney. I've used subways in NYC, Boston, and extensively used public transport in DC...all are a joke. The only public transport that's been good in my experience is overseas.

Exactly - bus service in the US is generally bad and is treated like 'poor people transit' - which is not the case in other societies that are engrained with mass transit. Take note, I didn't say 'compared to major cities' I said 'compared to major cities with good service'

ECVs need to be handled with their own buses - even if only at peek times like park close. It's time for that to happen. If Disney is going to coddle that audience and indirectly encourage their use.. then they need to extend that to transportation and stop making the entire system drag down due to it.

 

[larryz]

The parks are a theater. They have an opening act, and it is not arriving in a backstage parking lot.

Here's another upsell opportunity -- make the users buy and wear "Mickey's Magical Transport Hoods," so people can't see the backstage areas. $29.95 each, but they have the face of your favorite Disney character on the front...

Now, if I were staying at an Epcot-area resort, this is a MUST-do...

 

[RustySpork]

Here's another upsell opportunity -- make the users buy and wear "Mickey's Magical Transport Hoods," so people can't see the backstage areas. $29.95 each, but they have the face of your favorite Disney character on the front...

The board will never approve that, they need to charge at least 2x that amount for it to be profitable enough to consider.

 

[larryz]

The board will never approve that, they need to charge at least 2x that amount for it to be profitable enough to consider.

Not if the hoods are made from black plastic bags...

 

[flynnibus]

Thank god most public providers don't think as chef mickey does... "the only way to solve capacity problems are to make good service a premium offer"

Imagine if your Electric Company said the only way to get uninterupted service was to pay an adhoc premium... to ensure you aren't burdened with dealing with the gen pop.

 

[Minthorne]

I used this in May and loved it. $29 for 7 days it was fantastic.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Funny.. you pointed out the covered waiting as a benefit in your list...
And you asked what could make it better.. not 'what chef mickey thinks is necessary' (otherwise you could have just told us your list)
Wifi is a perk they offer throughout the system... it makes sense to extend it to the transportation too. It's another example of where WDW is behind the curve in transportation instead of leading it.

In fact everything on that list is examples of things other systems are doing.. and successfully... yet WDW doesn't. Their system is behind the average when it comes to innovation and their service level is only passable. You got on another system that was impressive.. because surprise... it did things BETTER than the normal buses. That's the root thing here... you saw a glimpse of how things COULD be.

Complaining about ETAs? Funny, doesn't hold back other successful systems from using it to success. sure, some systems that are bad get people discounting their ETAs, but others it works great. The failure of one, doesn't mean they all fail.



Exactly - bus service in the US is generally bad and is treated like 'poor people transit' - which is not the case in other societies that are engrained with mass transit. Take note, I didn't say 'compared to major cities' I said 'compared to major cities with good service'

ECVs need to be handled with their own buses - even if only at peek times like park close. It's time for that to happen. If Disney is going to coddle that audience and indirectly encourage their use.. then they need to extend that to transportation and stop making the entire system drag down due to it.

My only point was, it has to work for what Disney does. Comparing it to some easy schedule with much fewer stops and fewer people isn't the model.

I'm also not sure where you have experienced good bus service or even appreciably better than Disney's. It's not bad if you have to wait 15-20 min for a bus. The city bus has a schedule, but they almost never can follow it due to traffic. I rode one in one of the biggest cities in the word for years and it was nothing short of awful. All US public transport I've experienced is awful, not even 50% as good as Disney's bus service.

The only real solution to the bus issue is to use a completely different system, like a train/subway system.

Covered is a nice benefit to the express, but it's not really because it's specifically covered for the bus...you're kind of still waiting in the park, so you get to wait under cover. My point on that was adding covered spaces doesn't really solve the complaints about the Disney bus system because it's kind of unrelated.

To me, they solved all your issues with the Express system. Anything on a mass scale requires a completely new system. The improvements you mention don't really mean all that much if you still have to walk back out to the bus stop with thousands of others, go back through security, and walk back in the park from bus areas.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Thank god most public providers don't think as chef mickey does... "the only way to solve capacity problems are to make good service a premium offer"

Imagine if your Electric Company said the only way to get uninterupted service was to pay an adhoc premium... to ensure you aren't burdened with dealing with the gen pop.

Electricity is a ridiculous example and is nothing like what Disney does as it is a necessary commodity people expect to have 100% of the time. Totally apples and oranges. Disney isn't a "public provider." They are a for profit company trying to make money like every other company that gouges you even harder.

You don't travel much if you think hotels and establishments don't offer premium services at an additional cost...or even other companies for basically anything they offer. You want premium service, you pay up for it. It's the way of the world.

 

[Chef Mickey]

Thank god most public providers don't think as chef mickey does... "the only way to solve capacity problems are to make good service a premium offer"

Imagine if your Electric Company said the only way to get uninterupted service was to pay an adhoc premium... to ensure you aren't burdened with dealing with the gen pop.

And by the way, worked at an electric company for 7 years as a financial consultant and they DO do exactly what you're talking about for many businesses when demand is so high, they have to turn off electricity. If you don't want to be turned off, you pay higher pricing until you're outbid by someone else.

Some places get so hot, there isn't enough capacity to support all the demand, so people get shut off first...it's regulated how long and how often they can do it, but it happens. Business that don't want to lose power pay a huge premium to stay on in these situations.

 

[flynnibus]

And by the way, worked at an electric company for 7 years as a financial consultant and they DO do exactly what you're talking about for many businesses when demand is so high, they have to turn off electricity. If you don't want to be turned off, you pay higher pricing until you're outbid by someone else.

Some places get so hot, there isn't enough capacity to support all the demand, so people get shut off first...it's regulated how long and how often they can do it, but it happens. Business that don't want to lose power pay a huge premium to stay on in these situations.

Definition: Boundary Case

They don't do it for their baseline needs.

 

[flynnibus]

Electricity is a ridiculous example and is nothing like what Disney does as it is a necessary commodity people expect to have 100% of the time. Totally apples and oranges. Disney isn't a "public provider." They are a for profit company trying to make money like every other company that gouges you even harder.

You don't travel much if you think hotels and establishments don't offer premium services at an additional cost...or even other companies for basically anything they offer. You want premium service, you pay up for it. It's the way of the world.

I didn't say they don't offer premium services. There is a huge difference between offering premium services... and NOT FIXING STUFF AND THEN CHARGING A PREMIUM FOR 'LUXURY' OF GETTING THE FIX

The reality is the bus system is not performing to the standards it should to match the rest of the Disney product. The solution should be to FIX THE BUS SYSTEM - not offer premium services to bypass the problem.

Remember when people complain the suits never understand the problem because they don't experience the park as guests do? That's the same situation here... let people buy their way above the problem instead of FIXING IT.

Would you prefer another analogy? How about a 5 star hotel that has 2 star linens because they haven't kept up with industry standards. Is the solution 'let customers pay more for 5 star linens'?? Or should they upgrade their linens?

 

[PeterGriffin]

I'm going in October for the Food and Wine and I have a park hopper. I plan on going to Epcot every night to eat. I was interested in this at first, but the more I think about it, it doesn't make sense for my family to use it. If we are at MK, we will take the monorail. If we are at HS, we will walk to Epcot. The only time would be leaving AK, but I guess we can take a regular bus. It would be a good service for us, if we planned on doing more than 2 parks a day, but that's what we usually do.

 

[Chef Mickey]

I didn't say they don't offer premium services. There is a huge difference between offering premium services... and NOT FIXING STUFF AND THEN CHARGING A PREMIUM FOR 'LUXURY' OF GETTING THE FIX

The reality is the bus system is not performing to the standards it should to match the rest of the Disney product. The solution should be to FIX THE BUS SYSTEM - not offer premium services to bypass the problem.

Remember when people complain the suits never understand the problem because they don't experience the park as guests do? That's the same situation here... let people buy their way above the problem instead of FIXING IT.

Would you prefer another analogy? How about a 5 star hotel that has 2 star linens because they haven't kept up with industry standards. Is the solution 'let customers pay more for 5 star linens'?? Or should they upgrade their linens?

Like I said, the bus system is inherently going to have some issues when you're talking about that many people using it. However, I don't think it's all that bad in its current state...you clearly do. If you want better service, pay the $29 and it's phenomenal. Again, you can't make that for everyone because you're right back to where you started if everyone starts using it.

The express service goes beyond solving the issues of today. It makes transport between parks essentially perfect. The backstage entrance is a game changer. That will never happen on a large scale. The minute you start opening it up to everyone, it fails. I don't view Disney as doing Express Transportation for extra money or charging for something that should be free. They are doing it as an additional service for people who want to pay for a better experience that they know can't be replicated on a large scale. It's kind of like saying Fast Pass should be expanded for more slots. The minute you do that, the Fast Pass no longer works.

Again, linens are kind of a staple of hotels, so it's another poor example. You have to think of something that is a premium service but isn't a "given" like electricity, linens, running water, etc

 

[flynnibus]

My only point was, it has to work for what Disney does. Comparing it to some easy schedule with much fewer stops and fewer people isn't the model.

I'm also not sure where you have experienced good bus service or even appreciably better than Disney's. It's not bad if you have to wait 15-20 min for a bus. The city bus has a schedule, but they almost never can follow it due to traffic. I rode one in one of the biggest cities in the word for years and it was nothing short of awful. All US public transport I've experienced is awful, not even 50% as good as Disney's bus service.

Maybe because I'm not comparing it to US public transport? (I mean.. how many times must I say it??). When talking societies that embrace mass transit... the US is so far behind the curve it's not even on the chart. Try living in areas that shun autos and actually design their cities around mass transit as PART OF THE APPROVALS to build stuff and you'll start to realize why other cities have it so much better. Live in Oslo, they have city buses, buses that go from city center to suburbs, street trams, subway, regional heavy gauge trains, and boats no less. All part of the same integrated transit network. Heck, their route website can even show you where you can find an available BIKE for rent.

All those options.. and the bus is still the most popular option unless you are talking long haul.. because the buses are great, reliable, clean, cheap, and extremely easy to use.

And people don't generally complain when buses come in 15mins.. its when they double and triple that.. or when Disney can't properly manage load that they start complaining. These are things they could fix.. but haven't.

The only real solution to the bus issue is to use a completely different system, like a train/subway system.

And this simply is WRONG. Disney already has the heavy transit options on its heavy fixed routes... tho some of those could stand expanding.

Covered is a nice benefit to the express, but it's not really because it's specifically covered for the bus...you're kind of still waiting in the park, so you get to wait under cover. My point on that was adding covered spaces doesn't really solve the complaints about the Disney bus system because it's kind of unrelated.

It is related.. and why you even mentioned it in the first place. Waiting for buses stinks... waiting for buses in miserable conditions is even worse. The bus stops and how they are managed are just as much as part of the bus system as the buses. To refuse to accept that is part of the issue with thinking like yours where the buses are doomed to suck because they are buses for everyone.

The improvements you mention don't really mean all that much if you still have to walk back out to the bus stop with thousands of others, go back through security, and walk back in the park from bus areas.

Oh wait.. I thought those things not really part of the bus system you didn't want to talk about? The lack of security integration and how the transit system is built are problems what we were talking about with the SOLUTION. Disney has passed the buck over and over and over and ultimately made the bus system experience subpar. The problems are self-inflicted - they can also be solved without just saying "we will let the top % of people who are willing to pay to be above the masses.. pay to have a good experience"

 

[flynnibus]

Again, linens are kind of a staple of hotels, so it's another poor example. You have to think of something that is a premium service but isn't a "given" like electricity, linens, running water, etc

Disney made transportation an included premium... and why it's been advertised as a PERK for decades.

 

[jloucks]

The ETA thing might be something they could implement, but I think you just open yourself up to a lot of complaining if the info isn't exactly right. It could create new problems because people will try to time it more.

WiFi is a non factor to me and not a bus issue. Covered bus stops need to happen, but more of an infrastructure issue, not exactly a problem with how buses operate. ECV is about as quick as it will ever be unless they start doing ECV buses, which I think could work with some creativity.

The other things you mention I don't see as major issues. I think they have good bus only lanes and I think the the waiting for a bus issue is minimal. I never feel like I'm waiting too long for a bus, honestly. I think we are just in disagreement on how well the system current works. The only issue I have is how crowded they are and kind of unpredictable on timing. They solved it with express, but I don't think that solution is possible on a mass scale because you have inherent problems when moving a lot of people.


No WAY you can say their bus service "sucks" compared to major cities. I live in a top 5 city and the bus service is a total joke, no comparison to Disney. I don't just say that anecdotally either. I used the bus service for years communting downtown to work and it's AWFUL. I remember thinking I wish Disney ran this service.

I've used subways in NYC, Boston, and extensively used public transport in DC...all are a joke. The only public transport that's been good in my experience is overseas.

I've found that San Antonio Texas, Great Britain, and some of Mexico have pretty good busing system. By "good" I mean they suck less than the others I have tried. WDW is about the same quality. ...which is a huge jarring problem if you try to package that with a mid to high end resort sales pitch.

Great Britain had a very Fed Ex style system with the train system. No matter where you went, you were headed to London first. Not much lateral ability.

We rented a car and used it to drive about a mile to the train station. Waste of money for the most part since 70% of the time we did go to London.

 

[mrerk]

If you are a park hopper, this is a no-brainer to me, and I will definitely be using this during our next trip. One question-I saw the pickup locations at each park, and, using Google Maps, it's easy to see how each point gets used as a bus stop, except for the one at DAK. The WDW site says the pickup spot is near the Dawa bar entrance, but I couldn't see a parking lot or access roads in this area from the aerial shot-where exactly do you get on the express bus at DAK?

I think it was behind the Lion King show. We walked down towards LK, then between LK and the back of Tusker House/Kusifari.