DVC Members Resistance

[ford91exploder]

For the most part, the point total stayed very close week in and week out. As already pointed out, the shift was to help combat the empty rooms over the weekends due to the higher point cost. No extra money was made by DVD as they already decided how many points were going to be sold, and that number didn't change.



And if the high season did somehow happen to expand, there is an opposite shift at some other point in the year. There does tend to be a bit of flucuation depending on when holidays and such fall, but if you look at past point charts its mostly cyclical. No matter how much they may want to make more money, the only way they can do that is by increasing the cost of buying points direct. Pretty much every other cost associated with DVC is dictated by law. Fees are tied to what is actually spent, point totals declared when property is first sold, etc.

And for the record, yes we did just stay 9 days actually on older points at our home resort. The same number of days we stayed when we first bought it, same time period as when we first bought it, and no we didn't need to bank or borrow any points to do so (actually had some left over to bank for next year).

If you noticed when they reallocated a lot of the rooms had points added in addition to the rebalance, There were significant reductions in VALUE season point costs to 'offset', But especially in the Magic season some rooms went up 20-50 points per week.

The VALUE season weeks were allocated to times when major attraction closures took place or parks run limited hours.

Technically Disney was within the LETTER of the law, But the spirit would have stated that weeks would cost the same even if some days were higher priced than others.

 

[tjkraz]

Yes, I understand the mechanics of timeshares. Here's a thought though, playing devil's advocate: we are dealing with a program that is also widely available to the general public as "hotel" rooms. By definition, if it isn't occupied by DVC members it doesn't sit idle, other customers have access and pay the going rate which is.....drumroll....MORE money.

I would actually propose that Disney stood to make more BEFORE the recent reallocations. Before the changes, weekends cost about 2x the cost of weekdays. Problem was there weren't enough people willing to pay those prices. More and more buyers exclusively targeted Sunday - Thursday stays. Some would pay cash--either on-site or off-site--for the weekends or simply take 6d, 5n vacations.

On the weekends occupancy would fall dramatically. (Which actually gave Disney the revenue potential you suggest--although it's also worth noting that a good portion of the unfilled room revenue actually goes back to DVC owners as "breakage" income.) Meanwhile, owners couldn't understand why full week (or S-Th) reservations were impossible to get at 6 months.

As the old saying goes, you can't put 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound box. That's what the old point charts attempted to do. 80-90% of members wanted to use point for S-Th stays, but only 60% of the yearly points were allocated to those nights.

The reallocation was far overdue.

As for OP's question, our stance toward WDW has changed, too. We don't visit as often as we have in the past. Disneyland is actually my preferred destination over WDW. We do have an 8-night WDW stay planned for this spring but--for the first time ever--we bought 10-day non-expiring passes which we'll stretch out for the next several years. Definitely won't be frequenting the parks as we have in the past.
That said, I'm not as openly critical of WDW / Disney as many others seem to be. Intellectually I understand what they are trying to do. Every smart business tries to maximize their revenue. Unless Disney is doctoring its attendance reports to investors, they are still drawing record crowds to the parks.

And I'm definitely a fan of the MyMagic+ program...at least from what I've seen so far. We used it for 2 days in December and it perfectly suited our touring style.

BUT, if all of these things collectively blow up in their proverbial faces, they only have themselves to blame.

Disney...WDW, at least...IS getting less of my money. If they can supplement it with other people's money, so be it.

 

[xdan0920]

I would actually propose that Disney stood to make more BEFORE the recent reallocations. Before the changes, weekends cost about 2x the cost of weekdays. Problem was there weren't enough people willing to pay those prices. More and more buyers exclusively targeted Sunday - Thursday stays. Some would pay cash--either on-site or off-site--for the weekends or simply take 6d, 5n vacations.

On the weekends occupancy would fall dramatically. (Which actually gave Disney the revenue potential you suggest--although it's also worth noting that a good portion of the unfilled room revenue actually goes back to DVC owners as "breakage" income.) Meanwhile, owners couldn't understand why full week (or S-Th) reservations were impossible to get at 6 months.

As the old saying goes, you can't put 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound box. That's what the old point charts attempted to do. 80-90% of members wanted to use point for S-Th stays, but only 60% of the yearly points were allocated to those nights.

The reallocation was far overdue.

As for OP's question, our stance toward WDW has changed, too. We don't visit as often as we have in the past. Disneyland is actually my preferred destination over WDW. We do have an 8-night WDW stay planned for this spring but--for the first time ever--we bought 10-day non-expiring passes which we'll stretch out for the next several years. Definitely won't be frequenting the parks as we have in the past.
That said, I'm not as openly critical of WDW / Disney as many others seem to be. Intellectually I understand what they are trying to do. Every smart business tries to maximize their revenue. Unless Disney is doctoring its attendance reports to investors, they are still drawing record crowds to the parks.

And I'm definitely a fan of the MyMagic+ program...at least from what I've seen so far. We used it for 2 days in December and it perfectly suited our touring style.

BUT, if all of these things collectively blow up in their proverbial faces, they only have themselves to blame.

Disney...WDW, at least...IS getting less of my money. If they can supplement it with other people's money, so be it.

Great points.

I fall into that Sun-Thurs trip planner. The weekends were so many more points, it offered a horrifically bad value. I spent most of the time planning my vacations trying to use the least possible weekend nights.

 

[Phonedave]

Great points.

I fall into that Sun-Thurs trip planner. The weekends were so many more points, it offered a horrifically bad value. I spent most of the time planning my vacations trying to use the least possible weekend nights.

And I was in the opposite boat. Since I am flying, airfare is a major park of our vacation. I wanted to maximize our stay, and depending on the days, sometimes staying over a weekend would be cheaper. However those point costs would kill me. The rebalancing helped me out.

-dave

 

[xdan0920]

And I was in the opposite boat. Since I am flying, airfare is a major park of our vacation. I wanted to maximize our stay, and depending on the days, sometimes staying over a weekend would be cheaper. However those point costs would kill me. The rebalancing helped me out.

-dave

We fly in as well, and you're right it was a tricky thing to balance point cost with airfare.

We typically fly for "free" with JetBlue. We have the JetBlue Amex and make ALL our purchases with it. But they updated their TrueBlue program a couple years ago, and since then, the points chart for flights we could use has gone haywire.

So like you, this rebalance has really helped us.

 

[DVCOwner]

I have looked back over the point charts and I do not see much shift at all in the total cost of a full week stay at my home resort, Boardwalk Villas. I do see a shift of points from weekends to weekday stays. I was one that only went Sunday night to Friday so this did change the way I stay on park. I now do stay on some weekend days (Friday and Saturday nights) due to the difference in points is not as much. I think that was what Disney Vacation Club is required to do to even out demand and fill the resort. As other have said, the total points at the resort changed only once when they did away with the visitors center and added additional rooms.

 

[DVCOwner]

I want to add that we purchased in 1999 and all of the things that we are talking about were well explained to me and my wife. We knew that Disney Vacation Club could and would change some point allocations to keep the rooms full.

 

[tjkraz]

And I was in the opposite boat. Since I am flying, airfare is a major park of our vacation. I wanted to maximize our stay, and depending on the days, sometimes staying over a weekend would be cheaper. However those point costs would kill me. The rebalancing helped me out.

-dave

And that's sort of how we've evolved as a result of the reallocations.

I most vividly remember our first year of ownership. Kids were young (pre-school age) so we vacationed whenever it suited our needs. We bought APs and squeezed-in three 5-night stays over that one year AP period. It was very economical for our DVC points. However we paid transportation three times for 4 people and each trip required a full week's vacation from work.

Now we tend to take fewer, longer trips. More points per trip but overall the ancillary costs are probably lower.

I guess the cynic would say that we're playing into Disney's hands but as long as we remained DVC members, we don't really have a choice. With today's point charts, a 7-9 night stay...including two weekends...is always cheaper than it was under the old charts. And frankly I prefer one longer stay over two abbreviated 5-night visits.

 

[Disneykidder]

How is that the solution??? The solution is for Disney to make us feel like we made the right choice in buying into DVC.

A great point was made earlier in the thread. WDW has seen a massive growth in guests. Meanwhile they offer less then ever. The infrastructure has been pushed to the breaking point (see the Monorail closure thread) and there is no place to soak up these crowds. It's a real problem.

I understand and I agree that crowds are out of control. I never said my suggestion was the solution but if you are seriously unhappy, then you have options. You can back out of being a DVC member or take action to try and contact Disney in regards to the situation, if possible. I do no have all the answers and nor would I say I do.

 

[GoofGoof]

I would actually propose that Disney stood to make more BEFORE the recent reallocations. Before the changes, weekends cost about 2x the cost of weekdays. Problem was there weren't enough people willing to pay those prices. More and more buyers exclusively targeted Sunday - Thursday stays. Some would pay cash--either on-site or off-site--for the weekends or simply take 6d, 5n vacations.

On the weekends occupancy would fall dramatically. (Which actually gave Disney the revenue potential you suggest--although it's also worth noting that a good portion of the unfilled room revenue actually goes back to DVC owners as "breakage" income.) Meanwhile, owners couldn't understand why full week (or S-Th) reservations were impossible to get at 6 months.

As the old saying goes, you can't put 10 pounds of **** in a 5 pound box. That's what the old point charts attempted to do. 80-90% of members wanted to use point for S-Th stays, but only 60% of the yearly points were allocated to those nights.

The reallocation was far overdue.

As for OP's question, our stance toward WDW has changed, too. We don't visit as often as we have in the past. Disneyland is actually my preferred destination over WDW. We do have an 8-night WDW stay planned for this spring but--for the first time ever--we bought 10-day non-expiring passes which we'll stretch out for the next several years. Definitely won't be frequenting the parks as we have in the past.
That said, I'm not as openly critical of WDW / Disney as many others seem to be. Intellectually I understand what they are trying to do. Every smart business tries to maximize their revenue. Unless Disney is doctoring its attendance reports to investors, they are still drawing record crowds to the parks.

And I'm definitely a fan of the MyMagic+ program...at least from what I've seen so far. We used it for 2 days in December and it perfectly suited our touring style.

BUT, if all of these things collectively blow up in their proverbial faces, they only have themselves to blame.

Disney...WDW, at least...IS getting less of my money. If they can supplement it with other people's money, so be it.

Good post. This is very interesting stuff that I never knew or really thought about, but the reallocation makes a lot of sense. It definitely works in my favor as I am unlikely to do a trip that doesn't incorporate a weekend.

 

[3disneynuts]

I have to say going to WDW is getting way too expensive. We just went over the christmas break and got 14 day park hoppers at universal for a little under $200 each for a family of 4 compared to the $405 each for WDW. Yes you are getting more parks at WDW but it doubles the cost. Another thing we have to factor in is that after 4 years old there is nothing exciting for boys at WDW. We have two boys and once they outgrow pirates, Buzz and Woody you are basically left with thrill rides which there are not that many. Universal has all the superheros, Jurassic Park, and now the Harry Potter section which is amazing and expanding this summer. Add in the thrill rides and it not only suites the pocketbook better but the the boys are in heaven there.

 

[dizzney]

We actually sold our DVC points last year. Initially we planned on a 4 year break as our daughter was in high school and she simply cannot miss a minute of school at this point in her life and that is the time we would travel to WDW. I expected to rent out our points for this time period and get back to WDW as soon as we could. Well after some hard discussions and thinking about all of our family complaints we decided to sell and that we would never be visiting WDW like we have been unless it really changed. We did nor do we still see any change in the near future.
We purchased in 2003 and spent anywhere from 2 weeks to 4 weeks in WDW each year. Since 2003 the total WDW annual attendance numbers went from about 37,700,000 to 48,500,000 in 2012. During this time frame there were many ride and show changes but only one major addition which was EE. That is over a 20% increase in guests with minimal additions. We started seeing the strain on the infrastructure and noticed we were just not enjoying ourselves as much since more time now was spent in queues rather than experiencing the rides and shows. Then to tope that the rate of price increase for food and park tickets was increasing at a rate that far exceeded inflation specially during the recession we have all be dealing with over the past few years. So I just cannot take paying a lot more money for a lot less experience.
Since we last visited they have begun to open FLE and there is Avatar to look forward too in 4 years but again there is nothing to absorb the 11 million more guests nor does there look to be anything in the immediate future as attendance grows. My families season pass at a local Six Flags cost me about $180.00 and they add something new each year to keep locals coming. It is not as awesome and breathtaking as Disney, but it at least is something affordable for the family to do together and enjoy.
Maybe in 5 years or possibly 10 years I will see a change in the philosophy and operations at WDW and we will be back. We will visit again, but the key is when?

Disney may have a high attendence now, but my kids and DH and I still want to go,

We couldnt go in 2013 due to College graduation; Twins graduating 8th grade and making confirmation, and doing work around the house because we did the aprties at the house,

So instead we bought AP's to Six Flags, and we were all so disappointed, it was dirty, it was crowded, DH and I only used our passes once, we coudlnt go back, there was no comparison with WDW, and they nickle and dimed you, you couldnt carry your bag on the rides, you had to have a locker more $$$, it was just crazy and the food prices were actually higher than Disney.

All I heard was when are we going back to Disney, so we are getting AP's again this year, going for 9 nigths in August and bringing extended family done for 5 of the nights,

Not to say we wont visit HP at Universal, but our primary focus this year and for many years to come will be WDW.

 

[note2001]

The kids and I are reaching the WDW burn out point. It's not because we don't love the parks anymore, it's the crowds. We're not morning people, never have been, never will be. Evening EMH used to be the one thing that cinched a good visit for us, but now, evening EMH hours are reduced for the parks, eliminated from AK all together and with more folks staying on site than ever before, they tend to be more crowded than visiting an alternate park. Let's not get started on some of the guest behavior we see these days.

We still love the resorts, still want to randomly hop in to a park to enjoy our favorite eating spot or a ride, but the stress of planning and sticking to a plan has ruined even that for us. It goes far beyond just wait times, my favorite part of the parks is the atmosphere. They used to calm the nerves, now with all the crowds there is no way to enjoy the areas except at the very end of the day when we're exhausted from battling them.

Orlando, Universal, NASA, the beaches and even certain rescue organizations in the area are all sounding more appealing than heading into the Disney parks. I can certainly see us using our DVC membership as just home-base for other explorations in the near future. It's nice that our home is AKV and close to the highways for this reason.

 

[GoofGoof]

The kids and I are reaching the WDW burn out point. It's not because we don't love the parks anymore, it's the crowds. We're not morning people, never have been, never will be. Evening EMH used to be the one thing that cinched a good visit for us, but now, evening EMH hours are reduced for the parks, eliminated from AK all together and with more folks staying on site than ever before, they tend to be more crowded than visiting an alternate park. Let's not get started on some of the guest behavior we see these days.

We still love the resorts, still want to randomly hop in to a park to enjoy our favorite eating spot or a ride, but the stress of planning and sticking to a plan has ruined even that for us. It goes far beyond just wait times, my favorite part of the parks is the atmosphere. They used to calm the nerves, now with all the crowds there is no way to enjoy the areas except at the very end of the day when we're exhausted from battling them.

Orlando, Universal, NASA, the beaches and even certain rescue organizations in the area are all sounding more appealing than heading into the Disney parks. I can certainly see us using our DVC membership as just home-base for other explorations in the near future. It's nice that our home is AKV and close to the highways for this reason.

I think if I were in your position I would probably look to sell my DVC membership. The resale market is pretty strong so you can get decent value now. There are many cheaper priced timeshares in the general Orlando area or other parts of Florida. We stayed at the Hilton Grand Vacation property next to Sea World. They had very large rooms and a nice pool with a bar/restaurant. I've also stayed at some really nice beachfront condos on the gulf coast. The biggest benefit to staying at a WDW DVC property is proximity to WDW and on site perks. If you aren't planning on going to the parks much or at all that value is lost. I guess you could probably rent the points out too and use the cash to get a hotel room closer to wherever you are spending time, but in the long run that could end up just being a hassle to organize.

 

[note2001]

I think if I were in your position I would probably look to sell my DVC membership. The resale market is pretty strong so you can get decent value now. There are many cheaper priced timeshares in the general Orlando area or other parts of Florida. We stayed at the Hilton Grand Vacation property next to Sea World. They had very large rooms and a nice pool with a bar/restaurant. I've also stayed at some really nice beachfront condos on the gulf coast. The biggest benefit to staying at a WDW DVC property is proximity to WDW and on site perks. If you aren't planning on going to the parks much or at all that value is lost. I guess you could probably rent the points out too and use the cash to get a hotel room closer to wherever you are spending time, but in the long run that could end up just being a hassle to organize.

Selling my membership is not in the equation. I used "WDW burn out" to refer to visiting the theme parks themselves due to the crowd situation which Disney does have full control over. Disney could change the crowd situation with the right person in charge to figure out how disperse the crowds between the locations. Toying with technology is just a start to something I hope is much better.

Disney runs some fantastic resorts and the true value of the DVC membership is to stay at Disney. I grew up camping at Fort Wilderness all the way back the year Disney World opened, and yes, there were stays we never went into a Disney park, yet those were some of the most memorable vacations ever.

I'd have to say I feel sorry for those who feel Disney is all about the theme parks... they're truly missing out on something very special.

 

[GoofGoof]

Selling my membership is not even in the equation. I used "WDW burn out" to refer to visiting the theme parks themselves due to the crowd situation which Disney does have full control over. Disney could change the crowd situation with the right person in charge to figure out how disperse the crowds between the locations. Toying with technology is just a start to something I hope is much better.

Disney runs some fantastic resorts and the true value of the DVC membership is to stay at Disney. I grew up camping at Fort Wilderness all the way back the year Disney opened and yes, there were stays we never went into a Disney park, yet those were some of the most memorable vacations ever.

I'd have to say I feel sorry for those who feel Disney is all about the theme parks... they're truly missing out on something very special.

I probably misunderstood your original post. I thought you were saying your burn out was due to large crowds, decreased EMHs and poor guest behavior. None of those things are likely to change.

 

[EOD K9]

Sometimes you just need to slow down. As stated previously, I rent my points to pay for my DCL addiction. for my next trip in a few weeks, the wife and I are only going to the parks for one day. We will be just visiting resorts' restaurants, mini golf, etc. As much as I may miss the parks, we have been there enough that being on property satisfies the Disney craving. There is more to the World than just the parks. There is a lot do to there, you just have to explore a little.

 

[GoofGoof]

Sometimes you just need to slow down. As stated previously, I rent my points to pay for my DCL addiction. for my next trip in a few weeks, the wife and I are only going to the parks for one day. We will be just visiting resorts' restaurants, mini golf, etc. As much as I may miss the parks, we have been there enough that being on property satisfies the Disney craving. There is more to the World than just the parks. There is a lot do to there, you just have to explore a little.

Fair enough, and I understand needing to slow down or pull back a little. With limited new attractions planned at WDW in the next couple of years I can understand people wanting to spend more time at Universal or Sea World until some of the new stuff opens. My comment was not intended to be another "if you don't like it then leave" post. It may have come off that way, but I was sincerely trying to point out that there are other resorts in other parts of Florida and elsewhere outside of "the bubble" that are on par with the Disney resorts and you don't have to pay the Disney premium. I was just stating my opinion that if it were me and I had burned out on WDW because of issues that are not likely to be resolved any time soon that I would likely sell my DVC rather than use it as a home base to visit the beach or NASA which are not particularly close. For me personally if I didn't think I was going to spend very much time at the parks going forward I would look to get in somewhere close to where I did want to spend my time. There isn't a right or wrong, it's just a matter of personal preference.

 

[EOD K9]

Fair enough, and I understand needing to slow down or pull back a little. With limited new attractions planned at WDW in the next couple of years I can understand people wanting to spend more time at Universal or Sea World until some of the new stuff opens. My comment was not intended to be another "if you don't like it then leave" post. It may have come off that way, but I was sincerely trying to point out that there are other resorts in other parts of Florida and elsewhere outside of "the bubble" that are on par with the Disney resorts and you don't have to pay the Disney premium. I was just stating my opinion that if it were me and I had burned out on WDW because of issues that are not likely to be resolved any time soon that I would likely sell my DVC rather than use it as a home base to visit the beach or NASA which are not particularly close. For me personally if I didn't think I was going to spend very much time at the parks going forward I would look to get in somewhere close to where I did want to spend my time. There isn't a right or wrong, it's just a matter of personal preference.

I really didn't take it as "if you don't like it leave". The internets doesn't always convey what we want.

 

[Goofnut1980]

I think the reason I only bought 120 points was so I wouldn't get burnt out. Thus far it is working great. We have brought friends with us almost every trip and it has been a blast. We are going to use points next year for DL at Grand Cali.

I do have to comment on the driving to the parks. It is much easier and quicker when we rent a car or drive to WDW. The buses do suck most of the time. One would think our dues on points would also ensure not having to wait 30+ mins for a bus?!

Our PAPs expired in December. We were not going to renew for this trip in May, but with the recent discount on PAPs we are renewing and we will take two trips on these tickets. For me that was a better and more logical thing to do.

If we decide to add points it may be only about 50 points and I will buy into AKV (our home resort)