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DVC is it worth it for UK citizens

Discussion in 'Disney Vacation Club' started by charleydances, Oct 11, 2015.

  1. charleydances

    charleydances New Member

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    Hi we are looking into the dvc for the poly. Trouble is we are finding it really hard to understand the actual cost per month for points. We would only travel for 2 weeks every 2 years. How many points would we need to purchase to vacate like this? Is the monthly cost inclusive of yearly fees? we can't afford to buy outright so will be taking on the finance over the 10 years.
    Any help would be most appreciated :)
     
  2. hakunamatata

    hakunamatata Love Me Some Fast Passes Premium Member

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    Hard to define worth since it's different for so many people. It's a decision you have to make for yourself.

    Yearly fees are not included in your monthly payment if you finance.
     
  3. charleydances

    charleydances New Member Original Poster

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    Sorry I should of said. We are wondering if it is financially worth it. It currently costs us appox £6400 including Disney dinning plan, flights and 14 day park tickets every 2 years to vacate to wdw in a value resort using a travel agent. If we were to purchase through DVC it will cost us appox £2900 for flights. We would then have the monthly dues,tickets plus dining and annual dues on top of the flight prices. I guess I just trying to figure out which way is cheaper over the 10 years it would be on the DVC finance to vacate to wdw every two years so it's the case of UK travel agents v.s buying into dvc. I'm literally clueless to how it all works it's all a bit confusing :-/
     
  4. MansionButler84

    MansionButler84 Premium Member

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    I would say no. It's hard to break even if you finance. That said, if you want a studio at Poly, roughly 175 points would work. So that is $29000 to finance (use a loan calculator to figure out monthly charge with the interest rate you qualify for) plus about $1000/year in maintenance fees.
     
  5. charleydances

    charleydances New Member Original Poster

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    Woahhh. That's a great help thank you yes financing is definitely not a good idea I've worked it out to be appox £250 gbp per month. Plus the fees. Per year is an awful lot of money when we can vacate every two years for appox £6500 gbp. We weren't perticially bother about the poly it was just the DVC guy who suggested it to us whilst we were over there on vacation last month.
    Thanks for your advice. Looks like we will be saving for a while so we can purchase outright. Which appears to be more financially beneficial :)
     
  6. ShareBDwithMickey

    ShareBDwithMickey Active Member

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    Even buying outright it is hard to say whether DVC is cheaper for Uk citizens. Package deals from the UK are already considerably cheaper than the equivalent for US citizens & we have access to far better stand alone tickets.

    What you have to figure out is if the cost of the dining plan, air fares & tickets will still be substancially cheaper than a package deal when added to the DVC costs over the whole life of your agreement.

    In reality I believe it takes approximately 15 years to get to the point where what you paid for the DVC membership reaches a cost nuetral point, I.e. for you to reach the point where what you originally paid & what the holiday is then costing you to be less than if you had just continued to use a package for the same period of time. This takes into consideration the annual fees etc.

    Obviously the longer you own & the more often you can use the facilities the more value you get out of it & conversely the more value for money it becomes. Do you anticipate that you will still want to take bi-annual trips in 20 years time? If the snswer is yes then DVC is probably right for you if not then it probably isn't.

    It is worth noting that there is no discount on any of the items when brought individually (excluding possibly cheaper flights), which if you look at each cost as a discrete item, hotel (or DVC costs if you do buy), flights, tickets, dining plan & hotel transfers or hire car shows just how good UK packages can be.

    Renting points when you want them from a reputable outlet might be a much better way forward & ultimately far cheaper & more flexible.
     
  7. Lynne M

    Lynne M Active Member

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    The problem is the finance rates. They're so high when you buy through Disney that you'll be paying way, way more for your membership than someone who pays cash. Many thousands more over that 10 years. So much more that you might be paying more for your rooms than if you hadn't bought DVC. So, yes, your decision to save until you can buy without financing is a very good one.

    Beyond that, thought - and I don't mean to sound rude, I apologize if this comes off that way - when you say "I'm literally clueless as to how it all works", I would say you have a lot of research to do before you decide to buy. DVC can be a really good deal for some people. For others, it's throwing away a LOT of money. Before you know which of those you are, you need to really, completely understand how it works. How to use the booking windows. What the right home resort is for you. Banking and borrowing. What your membership does - and doesn't - entitle you to.
     
  8. dreamfinder

    dreamfinder Well-Known Member

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    There are no monthly dues, just your yearly dues that are assessed on a per point basis. IE every point you own you own DVD X dollars for taxes, upgrades, services, etc.

    Is it worth it is totally dependent on every persons unique situation. Real back of the napkin calculation, figure out how many points you need for your preferred duration at your preferred DVC resort. (Don't need to buy at Poly, DVD will sell you DVC points at any DVC resort, may just need to wait until they acquire them.) Then see what that would cost you at going rates from buying direct, as well as resale. Then take your recent resort costs, and see how many years it would take staying at that rate to break even based on what DVC points would cost you. Admittedly this leaves out things like inflation, dues, but gives you a ballpark as to how long it may take you to break even or start saving money. Don't bother comparing cash costs of a DVC stay unless that is what you would pay, it's just muddies the waters. Most people break even on resale in 7-10 years, closer to 15 is common for buying direct. After the breakeven point, the remainder of the life of your deed just costs you the dues for your hotel stays.
     
  9. YorkshireT

    YorkshireT New Member

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    Old thread but I've just bought in and spent 8 months carefully researching this first, so I hope this helps.
    1. It isn't worth buying in direct with Disney, the return on investment is too long.
    2. Buying with finance is also not attractive, again ROI is too long. This is a luxury purchase, think twice before paying for a luxury purchase on the tick.
    3. Even buying with the current awful exchange rate, if you buy resale and intend to visit every 2 years, it can make a lot of financial sense.
    4. I bought a loaded Saratoga contract as it is simply the best bang for the buck. I also like Saratoga and the easy access to so many good restaurants at Disney Springs. However when we go (generally end of August) and the less popular room type we want (1 bed) means that on historic data on the 7 month mark if I want, I'll be able to switch out to other resorts such as Boardwalk, BLT, Animal Kingdom etc. However if I cannot I am happy at SSR. This I have researched carefully- a couple of different kind souls have collated 7 month availabilidty data and posted it on the inernet. This pursued me to save a third and go with a SSR contract over a BLT.
    5. Even at an historically low exchange rate, my 160 SSR points cost me £10,000. This was with full points banked from the year before which I can immediately sell to David's for £1500. So my buy in with closing costs was circa £9000 with all 2017 and all 2018 points.
    6. We go to Disney for 1 week only normally, the other week we spend in Naples or elsewhere on the Florida coast. We go only every other year as we like to go other places.160 points in 2nd half of August would get me a studio for 2 weeks if I wanted. The annual dues are around £600 a year (£1200 over 2 years). So forgetting the capital outlay at this stage, I get my room in a Disney Deluxe for 14 nights at around £85 a night. Even on a great deal from Disney it would probably be a couple of hundred.
    7. But as I say, we get a 1 bed for a week. These are phenomenally expensive normally, but my points are enough to take one for a week every 2 years and the points I have leftover I rent out and it just about covers the annual dues. So in other words it doesn't cost me anything to holiday there every other year in a 1 bed. This is saving thousands a year.
    8. 2018 I will be getting my 1 bed for a week. I'm also hoping to use my points balance to get a 1 bed at Vero Beach for 4 nights. So 11 nights accommodation in a 1 bed luxury hotel is about £100 a night in dues cost. If paying it would be 3 times more. Really from around 4 trips (8 years) it's paid for itself.
    9. For 25 years, membership has increased in cost on resale. Whilst contracts will start to decrease in value with maybe 20 years or less on them, I anticipate getting back almost what I paid or maybe even more depending on when I sell. Of course I could have invested that money elsewhere but I am saving in excess of a couple of thousand pounds in accommodation costs every 2 years.
    10. If I want I can just rent the points out every year for over a 6% return on investment. My bank are not paying me any interest (hardly).
    11. So for us in our circumstances I determined this was a very sensible thing to spend money on.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2017
    Ariel1986 likes this.
  10. Kwkiwi

    Kwkiwi New Member

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    Many thanks for posting up your cost benefit analysis. I'm a kiwi, just visited WDW with my son. Loved it, the Disney resort really made our stay. We stayed at the Contemporary, garden wing for $346 ++. I loved the location. I went to a dvc presentation at the poly. The sales agent wasn't that interested as soon as I mentioned resale market!
    Just had a few questions you may be able to answer:

    Do you have a link to those 7 month availability charts? I am interested in 1brm in either BLT, POLY, VGF, VCF or aulani for 7 nights in January, every second year. I am interested to know your reasoning for choosing Saratoga over BLT. Do you think you could still secure BLT at the 7 month mark for a January stay?
    How much do the dues go up every year based on historical rises?
    How much can you rent the points out for via davids, after fees?
    Are there any differences for someone international buying in the resale market?
    How easy is it to buy small amounts of additional points?
    Thanks in advance! Just doing a spreadsheet to calculate break even. The spreadsheet is getting bigger and bigger...
     
  11. Kwkiwi

    Kwkiwi New Member

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    Hi
    Thanks for your advice here. Just trying to work out the breakeven when buying Disney resale. I've figured out all the resorts I would want to stay at in January for a week. However just wanted to query why you would not include the yearly dues in your breakeven calculation? They are a real cost to you each year. Where in your calculation do you take account of the dues? Just interested to know because if I ignore the dues paid each year the break even is at year 10 (comparing hotel costs staying every two years at a disney hotel vs DVS resale purchase) whereas if I add in the dues each year to my total cost (ie points purchase cost on resale market + dues each year) then I don't break even until year 25. Forgive my ignorance, just wanting to check I'm calculating the breakeven point of dvc against all the costs of owning DVC.
    One other question, is there any benefit to owning points at two different resorts. (say if you bought additional ones of DVDs at a different resort). Can they be combined so you can use them for one stay? What are the rules of eligibility to be able to book a stay at a home resort?
    Thanks!
     
  12. YorkshireT

    YorkshireT New Member

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    1) There are two lots of charts. For one set (albeit more concentrates on studios which are harder to book than 1 beds) Google 'Skier Pete' and 'dvc 7 month' and you should find his. Someone else put a 7 month, 1 week availability spreadsheet on a cloud service, this was for all room types and is really helpful. I'll try and find it again.
    2) January is about the easiest time to get 7 months, as long as you avoid the marathon weekend and to a lesser extent Martin Luther King holiday. I doubt you'd have many problems with a 1 bed otherwise in Jan, so BLT would be likely available.
    3) Why did I pick SSR over BLT? Well I like SSR and love all the new DS restaurants you can walk to. When I am older and me and the Mrs may go on our own, I could see me having a week or so here and never visiting the parks. However, primary reason is cost - $75 a point for a fully loaded contract at SSR v at least $115 at BLT. Given I don't mind staying at SSR at all (it's very lovely) and given my research indicates swapping at 7 months for end of August stay in a 1 bed is probable, I couldn't see a reason to spend more. All analysis (by others as well) shows SSR is best bang for buck- low buy in, low MF, long contract.
    3) David's give $11.30 minimum a point, monorail resorts they'll give you 13. Some brokers give you more. This is the cash they pay you, they rent them out for around $15.
    4) Don't quote me on this but I read dues have gone up circa 3% pa. There are laws in place that says they can only go up commensurate with costs I understand.
    5) Buying from abroad- I just returned my final closing docs today and sorted my money transfer. No difference to buying domestically at all save you need to do an international money transfer into the title companies') bank. I used Hifx. Just transferred the money from my bank to Hifx today, it will be with them Thursday and should be with the title company Friday. It will then take a few more weeks to complete. I've found it very easy. As a buyer you don't have to notarise or swear any documents, just sign stuff and send it back by email. I used DVC resale market and they appointed the title company who specialise in DVC. I've found both good. In USA the title co act for both parties but are legally obliged to ensure everything is done correctly. For example I asked them today what would happen if the promised banked points had been used. They said as per the contract they'd take $18 a point out of my money and return it to me and knock it off the seller. They said they don't release any moneys to the seller until all points are in my account.
    6) I understand if you come to sell, the IRS in USA take 20% of sale in tax if you are a foreign seller. You can apparently stop this by filling in some declarations and jumping through a few hoops. I'll take it on the chin if necessary if I ever come to sell.
    7) Once you own you can immediately buy 25 points direct from Disney for the current resorts - Poly, Alunai and shortly Copper Creek villas. I suppose Disney could up the minimum purchase number for anyone at any time. 25 is current minimum for owners only. If you wanted another resort you'd have to tell Disney and go on a wait list until they exercised ROFR and got those points to sell you. Buying small add ons resale is possible. They come up less because they are less common contracts and also Disney may ROFR them more. I see quite a few 50 pointers come up.
    Hope this helps.
     
  13. YorkshireT

    YorkshireT New Member

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    I haven't looked at Dream finders figures but 1 beds can be phenomenally expensive. Most cost out at $3500+ a week (looking at AKL 1 bed now and it's £3750 a week, not dollars) . My points cost me $11,000 (after I rent last year's banked points which I can't use). If I rent AKL 1 bed savannah for a week it's about 245 points. I own 160 points so every 2 years I have 320. So I can rent my excess 75 points out if I want (I won't as I'll go to Vero Beach for 4 nights tacked on) and get $830 back. My dues are $890 a year so for 1 week in AKL in dues it is costing about $125 dollars a night in dues (2 years dues, less $830 rented excess points). So for the week, ignoring initial outlay for the time being, the cost is roughly $ 850. Compare to price I can book with at Disney or even by renting points at David's and it is a huge saving. Now I paid $11000 but I'm eating into that by 2k to 3 K each trip. The savings are actually bigger the more nights I stay as the cost in dues per night is always much less than the cost of the room. That assumes in 20/30 years it has no value if I want to sell, but it still will have as it lasts until 2054. So I haven't lost my $11k Goodness knows what the rooms will be in 20 years.
    Also typically cash price of rooms has gone up by inflation more than dues.
    When I worked it out I thought 4 trips and it would be about paying for itself. That's getting a good deal on a loaded SSR contract though. Buying BLT will take longer to break even.
     
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  14. Kwkiwi

    Kwkiwi New Member

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    Many thanks again, you've saved me a lot of time. I guess the key is whether the resorts I would actually want to stay at are available at the 7 month mark if I bought in at Saratoga Springs. Very interesting angle on Saratoga springs resale purchase. Unfortunately I didn't get to check that one out when I was there a couple of weeks ago. I needed another week to check out all the DVC resorts!

    Just wanted to clarify your point 7. Are you able to buy 25 points at Poly, Aulani even if you don't own those resorts anyway? What do you mean by current owners? I guess owning points in two different resorts is a whole different matter again, especially when going to book your home resort...

    Did you do a breakeven analysis, just curious to know what year you came in at on breakeven. To me there seems to be two ways to look at it, comparing cost of nights' stay owning DVC vs cash cost at disney hotel and then there's also working out breakeven (ignoring that you could have invested the money elsewhere).
    I guess the 20% the IRS takes on sale is an implied capital gains tax on sale. I would presume if you held long enough you would end up with some kind of gain on sale if you had enough years still to go on the contract. The reason I'm buying is really to pass on to our kids eventually so that they don't get into workaholic mode and never take a holiday!
    Anyway thanks again, sharing your experience has been much appreciated. Cheers
     
  15. Kwkiwi

    Kwkiwi New Member

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    Thanks, I'll need to sleep on this overnight... Food for thought!
     
  16. YorkshireT

    YorkshireT New Member

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    No problem. Disney allow you to buy only 25 points as an add on if you already own AT ANY DVC ( not just the one you're buying the add on at),. Otherwise it's 50 min. So if you buy a resale you can then buy that add on of 25 direct if you want. If you own at 2 different resorts, between 8 and 11 months you can only book at the respective resorts that those points are at. At 7 months or less you can combine them at any resort.
     
  17. dreamfinder

    dreamfinder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, for a detailed analysis you definitely want to include dues. However, you don't know how much they will go up each year, how much room rates will go up, etc. But I'd be shocked if breakeven on resale is 25 years. Most resale breakevens are closer to 7-10, with dures included. If you are truly only doing a trip every 2 years however, then yes, you would need to double that 7-10 breakeven, which most likely puts you closer to 15-20 years.

    Two resorts can work for you or against you. Yes, you can combine those points into a single stay. However, you are still bound by the 11/7 month booking windows. So if you own at SSR and BLT, you can book at BLT with your BLT points at 11 months, but couldn't use the SSR ones there until 7 months. So you either want to book a split stay at 11 months and then try to switch at 7, or bank/borrow points so you do SSR one year, and BLT the next year. If you are only traveling very other year already, then buying at two resorts really wouldn't do much for you unless you want to do split stays. It may be necessary to do however if you need to buy more points and don't want to wait for a particular contract to come up.

    25 points isn't really enough to actually do a stay of any consequence. Maybe 2 nights in most of the studios. But, that 25 points could let an existing owner stay during a different time period, different resort, etc. It's meant to help current owners modify their stays to meet their current needs. Current owners are those who own any DVC points. Some people are doing the 25pt add on direct after buying their initial contract resale so they are then considered eligible for owner perks such as discounts. Current resale purchases aren't eligible for many of the perks like discounts.

    My advice is always to buy where you are happy staying. If staying at Poly is key to you, then don't buy at SSR hoping to be able to get into Poly as you may end up being stuck at SSR.
     
  18. YorkshireT

    YorkshireT New Member

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    Some good advice, above. However I don't agree it would take twice as long to break even going every two years. Simple reason being if you buy enough points to cover you every 2 years you buy half the points you would need every year, it is directly proportionate.
    I for example bought enough points for a 9-10 night stay in a 1 bed every 2 years. Had I wanted to go every year, I'd have bought twice as much. Also someone can have the same points as me and stay in a studio every year as they are half the price. We still break even at roughly the same time.
    Buying Poly etc is very expensive. Kiwi wants to go Jan, in a 1 bed. They don't have 1 beds at Poly. All the data shows in Jan in a 1 bed most places are open at 7 months. If he wants to guarantee Poly, or GF and go at busy times, buy there. On his current vacation plans he'd be spending 90% more on the points and pushing his break even nearly twice as long, when it's probably not necessary. GF can be tricky to get, but in Jan at BLT it does appear normally to be available bang on 7 months.
    If money is not as important and you have to stay somewhere specific at busy times then buy there, at a very hefty premium, but if that is right for you great. If you wouldn't mind staying SSR in the unlikely event you cannot book a 1 bed in Jan elsewhere, buy there as you ROI is nearly twice as fast. I'm personally one of the wouldn't mind people (in fact often prefer the slower pace, more spread out resort).

    Cheers
     
  19. nickys

    nickys Well-Known Member

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    Hi. I'm a UK dvc member, who did finance direct!

    First thing, you really do need to understand how it all works before making any decision.

    Second, I'm more trying to answer the general "is it worth it" question. Others are giving you the financial info so I'll stick to the wider picture.

    So you know how often you want to visit and how much it costs by booking a package. Now where do you stay with a package and where do you want to stay in future? Our first stay onsite was at the Beach Club, us and 2 teens/tweens in a room. No way did we want to do that over and over. We like a 1 bed villa with kitchen, separate bedroom and a washer/drier. So that means a luxury resort.

    How long do you see yourself going? Not 14 days every 2 years, but how far into the future? 10 years? Well you'd only just have paid it off by then, Little point buying. 20 years? OK, maybe worth it. How much would it cost to rent a studio at the Poly? Flights and park tickets need to be bought each time, so it's only the accommodation cost that counts.

    But this is not a purely financial decision. It's about having the accommodation for a holiday for 40+ years for the price of the annual fees, once it's paid off.

    We own at BLT, annual dues around 700 at the current exchange rate. Last year it was 500, and that's not all due to the price increase, that's the pound plummeting! And that will affect your decision. However depending on when you go back maybe things will change. Because to finance it through DVC you will have to be in the US as it's a bank loan (think second mortgage).

    We only plan to go every 3 years at the moment, so bought accordingly. How many points do we need for 2 or 3 weeks BLT at peak season (school holidays) divided by 3. When we can go more often we can go at off season times so the points go further.

    Fianancially, comparing the cost of paying to stay in a villa against the total amount of the loan plus dues for 10 years, puts us at just about breaking even on our 5th trip. (That allows for the dues for each year after the loan is paid off). so that's after 15 years. Certainly by the 6th trip we will definitely be "winning".

    It would be worth looking into buying resale, but if you need to finance I think it would be difficult to get a loan to buy a timeshare, albeit one that holds it's value well. Also I have no idea how easy or difficult it would be as a UK citizen, from a tax perspective.

    Hopefully this gives you some useful things to consider. Do you want me to look up the points for a studio stay at the Poly? If so, when would you be travelling, roughly?
     
  20. YorkshireT

    YorkshireT New Member

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    Here's hoping the pound goes up eh? I envy those who bought in 5 years ago at 1.80/£, it really was a bargain then.
     

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