"Der Rhein" - a new boat ride at Epcot's Germany pavilion

[mharrington]

This is spun off from this thread here: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/imagineering-a-brand-new-mk-and-epcot-for-you.864107/.

Years and years ago, there were plans to have a boat ride at the Germany pavilion at Epcot. It was to be called "Rhine River Cruise", and it was to be a boat ride through miniature recreations of the German countryside. Though the ride never came to be, the building in which the ride was to be contained was built.

Anyway, I was planning on reviving the concept to create some actual attractions for Epcot's World Showcase. However, I feel that a simple cruise would be too underwhelming for today's thrill-a-minute-obsessed society. On the other hand, I'm not really sure about the need for another water ride with a drop. There's already Maelstrom for that. It was suggested that it be a thrill ride through German history, but I really don't know how something as educational as this is conducive to a thrill ride.

Anyway, that's what this new thread is about, (finally) bringing the long-proposed boat ride to Epcot's Germany pavilion.

Does anyone have any ideas?

 

[Thrill]

Maybe to counteract your concerns about the boat ride, switch it out for a car ride? World Showcase is already heavy on boats, and you could (hypothetically) grab a German car manufacturer as the ride's sponsor. Toss in an Autobahn sequence, and you've got an appealing addition that adds some variety to the World Showcase.

 

[mharrington]

Maybe to counteract your concerns about the boat ride, switch it out for a car ride? World Showcase is already heavy on boats, and you could (hypothetically) grab a German car manufacturer as the ride's sponsor. Toss in an Autobahn sequence, and you've got an appealing addition that adds some variety to the World Showcase.

Unfortunately, Epcot already has a car sponsor, and it's not a German one (Chevrolet now sponsors Test Track, just so you know). I would not want sponsorship issues to get in the way. Otherwise, that actually doesn't seem like a bad idea. The problem is just that Epcot has already a car sponsor.

What if a tire manufacturing company sponsored this? Like how Goodyear used to sponsor the Tomorrowland Speedway, even while General Motors sponsored World of Motion. Maybe Continental AG?

 

[mickeysbrother]

Unfortunately, Epcot already has a car sponsor, and it's not a German one (Chevrolet now sponsors Test Track, just so you know). I would not want sponsorship issues to get in the way. Otherwise, that actually doesn't seem like a bad idea. The problem is just that Epcot has already a car sponsor.

What if a tire manufacturing company sponsored this? Like how Goodyear used to sponsor the Tomorrowland Speedway, even while General Motors sponsored World of Motion. Maybe Continental AG?

You could have multiple car company's sponsoring rides at Epcot. Just because there is 1 car company doesn't mean there can not be more.

 

[mharrington]

You could have multiple car company's sponsoring rides at Epcot. Just because there is 1 car company doesn't mean there can not be more.

Well, I just think that Chevrolet is the official car company of WDW. I have no idea about the inner workings of how the resort runs, and so I just like to try and play it safe. At least Continental AG is a company that involves a certain important car part.

The other thing is, I'm concerned about how this can work; would this ride idea be an Omnimover ride or something?

 

[mharrington]

One problem with Germany is that it was historically not one of the friendliest nations in the world. The only thing I could think of, based on your Autobahn suggestion, is a history of the Autobahn itself, but I'm not sure how it could be conducive to a ride. The closest I could think of in that regard is a rehash of the Tomorrowland Speedway.

 

[evnted]

i feel it might be too difficult to create an enjoyable yet culturally/historically accurate German ride. as you said, a simple cruise passing by models of famous german landscapes/buildings is basically circlevision on a boat. a car ride, which might be the most suitable choice for a ride, would be ideal however as others mentioned im not sure how it would be handled having another car sponsor in the same park.
the only possible thing i can think of is a dark ride inside of a car (closer to the Roger Rabbit ride than the Speedway) which chronologically goes through key aspects of German territory leading up to present day (like HRE, Reformation, unification, etc. etc.) in a sort of Great Movie Ride fashion (different sets establising time period and location). it wouldnt solely be focused on the car industry (possibly removing the need for a car sponsor) and would also skip over relatively large portions of the early/mid 1900s so no one has to deal with trench warfare or the holocaust or the bombing of dresden lol. doubt this happens as it's extremely idealistic and extensive to make but thats about the best i can think of to incorporate German culture while also providing for a fresh, exciting experience.

 

[mharrington]

I never said that the original boat ride concept is Circle-Vision on a boat. If that's the case, then the same should be said about the boat rides at Mexico and Norway.

Maybe we should go back to the original Rhine River Cruise concept after all. Maybe it could be hosted by the Seven Dwarfs or something.

 

[mickeysbrother]

Well, I just think that Chevrolet is the official car company of WDW. I have no idea about the inner workings of how the resort runs, and so I just like to try and play it safe. At least Continental AG is a company that involves a certain important car part.

The other thing is, I'm concerned about how this can work; would this ride idea be an Omnimover ride or something?

Car company of Walt disney world. Hmmm possibly. security cars are all gm. So maybe you have a point on that. I will have to do some more research. The reason car company's would be a good fit is that the European car market all have lots of money to spend...

 

[evnted]

I never said that the original boat ride concept is Circle-Vision on a boat. If that's the case, then the same should be said about the boat rides at Mexico and Norway.

Maybe we should go back to the original Rhine River Cruise concept after all. Maybe it could be hosted by the Seven Dwarfs or something.

didnt word my original post properly, sorry about that. when i said "as you said" i meant in regards to the cruise being simple and just passing by models. the circlevision on a boat is more my interpretation. and you cant say that for Mex/Nor because 3 Caballeros focuses on Donald, Jose, and Panchito, not Mexico. sure theres cultural elements thrown in but the focus is on them. in terms of content for the ride, Maelstrom would be closer to a circlevision concept but its a thrill ride...cant use thrill and circlevision in the same sentence lol.
and anyway cant imagine sponsoring a ride by the Seven Dwarfs would go over well. people are upset with the state of the Mexican boat ride and are losing their minds over the potential Frozen overhaul on Maelstrom.

 

[mharrington]

didnt word my original post properly, sorry about that. when i said "as you said" i meant in regards to the cruise being simple and just passing by models. the circlevision on a boat is more my interpretation. and you cant say that for Mex/Nor because 3 Caballeros focuses on Donald, Jose, and Panchito, not Mexico. sure theres cultural elements thrown in but the focus is on them. in terms of content for the ride, Maelstrom would be closer to a circlevision concept but its a thrill ride...cant use thrill and circlevision in the same sentence lol.
and anyway cant imagine sponsoring a ride by the Seven Dwarfs would go over well. people are upset with the state of the Mexican boat ride and are losing their minds over the potential Frozen overhaul on Maelstrom.

Which is why I thought of just dropping the car ride aspect and going back to the original Rhine River Cruise idea. The Seven Dwarfs I thought of as a way to try and integrate characters so it won't get too boring.

As for the Mexico boat ride, I have a plan for that, to go back to the original ride concept, a historical ook at Mexico, but hosted by the Three Caballeros, who happen to have time on their hands before their concert and so show us around.

 

[Thrill]

So there are a lot of ideas going around, but why not throw another one into the mix?

One concern with a historical ride is that we'd have to dodge a bunch of history. My thought was to instead focus on a more specific aspect of German culture/history: Grimms' Fairy Tales. It could use some of the tales which Disney hasn't made major movies out of (Hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood, and Rumpelstiltskin all come to mind), and maybe play with setting (i.e. set some of these in modern-day Germany). I'm not sure how it would be laid out (a couple scenes per tale all in a row, or maybe a screen/Pepper's ghost-heavy ride where each ride sees only one tale).

 

[mharrington]

So there are a lot of ideas going around, but why not throw another one into the mix?

One concern with a historical ride is that we'd have to dodge a bunch of history. My thought was to instead focus on a more specific aspect of German culture/history: Grimms' Fairy Tales. It could use some of the tales which Disney hasn't made major movies out of (Hansel and Gretel, Little Red Riding Hood, and Rumpelstiltskin all come to mind), and maybe play with setting (i.e. set some of these in modern-day Germany). I'm not sure how it would be laid out (a couple scenes per tale all in a row, or maybe a screen/Pepper's ghost-heavy ride where each ride sees only one tale).

That's a good idea. Since Snow White was also a Grimm's fairy tale, that can be hosted by the Seven Dwarfs.

 

[mharrington]

To continue from my last post, based on Thrill's idea, the plot might be based on stitchcastle's idea for the Magic Kingdom several years ago on his great Imagineering WDW thread: http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/if-i-could-improve-walt-disney-world.53038/. This concept was "Storybook World":

A giant dark ride in the tradition of Tokyo's Pooh's Hunny Hunt, We join Mary's Little Lamb in the hunt for the Big Bad Wolf as he goes through story after story causing havoc and mayhem.

Anyway, I was thinking about doing that particular concept, with a different name (like, say, "Der Abenteuer von Grimms Märchen") and the Seven Dwarfs in place of the lamb. I'm not sure if "The Three Little Pigs" was a Grimms fairy tale, but "Little Red Riding Hood" was, and one of the many cartoons featuring the Three Little Pigs and the Big Bad Wolf did feature a version of Red Riding Hood. The second in the series of Three Little Pigs cartoons, this cartoon in question was called "The Big Bad Wolf", made in 1934. So theoretically, the Big Bad Wolf can fit in the ride. So that's basically it, take stitchcastle's concept for Storybook World and reset it as a ride for Epcot's Germany pavilion!

 

[Private Duck]

Very tough nut to crack with Germany's checkered/controversial history in the 20th Century.

Personally- I would love to see a "Rhine River Cruise" set to Wagner's Der Ring des Niebulungen (The Ring of the Nibelung). Such a ride would build off a concept that's been in the drawer for a long time (i.e. Rhine River Cruise in Germany Pavilion) and offer up Disney very fertile content with gods, valkyries, giants, dwarves, heroes, etc. in their intended setting (on and along the Rhine River). Meanwhile- if you get the Berliner Philharmoniker to provide the music- in addition to an incredible soundtrack- you could possibly land Deutsche Bank as your corporate sponsor (prime supporters of Berliner Philharmoniker) too. Lastly- it would be a tremendous window into a very significant piece of German culture.

Unfortunately, this is likely a pipe dream given Hitler's known affinity for Wagner and Wagnerian themes (as well as Wagner's own alleged anti-Semitism). Perhaps there's something similar that could be done with Bach's and Beethoven's best works- but nothing jumping out at me right at the moment in quite the same way...

 

[Sam Magic]

Very tough nut to crack with Germany's checkered/controversial history in the 20th Century.

Personally- I would love to see a "Rhine River Cruise" set to Wagner's Der Ring des Niebulungen (The Ring of the Nibelung). Such a ride would build off a concept that's been in the drawer for a long time (i.e. Rhine River Cruise in Germany Pavilion) and offer up Disney very fertile content with gods, valkyries, giants, dwarves, heroes, etc. in their intended setting (on and along the Rhine River). Meanwhile- if you get the Berliner Philharmoniker to provide the music- in addition to an incredible soundtrack- you could possibly land Deutsche Bank as your corporate sponsor (prime supporters of Berliner Philharmoniker) too. Lastly- it would be a tremendous window into a very significant piece of German culture.

Unfortunately, this is likely a pipe dream given Hitler's known affinity for Wagner and Wagnerian themes (as well as Wagner's own alleged anti-Semitism). Perhaps there's something similar that could be done with Bach's and Beethoven's best works- but nothing jumping out at me right at the moment in quite the same way...

You are right about Hitlers love for Wagner, but the thing to remember is that he loved Wagner because he saw him as the epitome of German music. Wagner's relationship Leopold fueled Hitlers love for him even more.

 

[Private Duck]

You are right about Hitlers love for Wagner, but the thing to remember is that he loved Wagner because he saw him as the epitome of German music. Wagner's relationship Leopold fueled Hitlers love for him even more.

Good point about Wagner/Leopold and Hitler Sam4D23.

The more and more I think about it- perhaps something like this could "skate by" if Wagner and Der Ring des Nibelungen was only one of several different "idyllic" German "scenes" set to music from the true masters (Bach, Beethoven, Wagner, Handel, Brahms, etc.). Heck- you could call it "Germany through Music" and by the end- you could be in "Berlin" on the River Spree listening to Paul Van Dyck techno.

I'm also realizing just how much I would have enjoyed the originally intended ride had it been built. A ca. 2020 version of just the original would be amazing IMHO.

 

[orlando678-]

It would be cool to see something Grimm involved

 

[mharrington]

It would be cool to see something Grimm involved

That's what I was thinking when I thought of a fairy tale-type dark ride based on @stitchcastle's concept for Storybook World (or whatever it was, I forgot).