Demand Based Pricing Will Be A Reality - Let's Be Objective

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I have been a huge supporter of increased ticket prices, particularly during the most crowded times. Crowd control is important in maintaining a positive guest experience and preventing Disney Parks from becoming a "beating" to visit. Disney finally agrees. The parks are too crowded and something needs to be done.

Demand Based Pricing is the only solution to Disney's current crowd problems. As you've all heard by now, Disney is seriously considering moving to dynamic ticket pricing, depending on congestion. You want to go during a popular time like Christmas? You'll pay more for your ticket. It already happens at their hotels of course and we see this in many industries like Hotels, Airlines, Uber, and Tollways.

Let me be clear - I am in no way supporting Disney's path to get here, but we are here nonetheless. I simply recognize that this is a possible solution in the interim.

Ideally, Disney would have expanded over the last 10 years, instead of squeezing margin and packing guests into its aging parks. Iger really ignored WDW and it's a shame. They are making some progress in expansion with the recently announced Toy Story, Stars Wars, and Avatar, but it's too late to help today.

Objectively, demand based pricing makes sense in the parks. I think Disney's goal is clear...spread the attendance more evenly throughout the year and remove the seasonality of guests as much as possible. They also recognize that constantly jam packed parks lower guest satisfaction and repeat visits.

My fear is that they will not only increase prices during peak times, but they'll still allow too many people inside the parks, despite higher prices. I think Disney is in store for a surprise. Increasing ticket prices 20-30% during the holidays will not be enough to deter guests. What we'll end up seeing is similar crowd levels and we'll end up paying more to visit.

My hope is the demand based pricing not only deters guests from going, but it also makes Disney comfortable with allowing fewer guests in while still meeting revenue projections. I think Disney and guests will be surprised exactly how much pricing needs to be raised to make people think twice. Steady price increases have not worked thus far. I think we are talking double, or more.

The only way this works is something like this for example. Today, we allow 50,000 people to enter the MK. We are going to do two things: Reduce that number to 40,000 AND increase ticket prices 30%. If you only increase ticket prices 30%, you might still have 50,000 people buy tickets. That accomplishes nothing. If this is the path they go down, I am not in favor of it. I don't think they can offer "market pricing" where pure supply and demand determine prices, but that might be interesting as well.

What do you think about dynamic pricing?
 
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RScottyL

Well-Known Member
I definitely agree that Disney needs to do SOMETHING to control the crowds!

There are people that may only be able to afford to go once in their lifetime, and won't be able to enjoy everything because of the crowds!

I do like your idea of increased cost when they get to a certain capacity, however it could possibly be abused!

As also mentioned, Disney is expanding it's parks which could help with the crowds!

I know this is beating a dead horse, and it won't happen, but Disney should build a 3rd location here in the US! They are getting too big for their own britches! LOL, I know I am biased, but Central Texas would be a good location, LOL!
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
As you mentioned, increasing prices may not reduce crowd levels-measures will have to be put into place to allow less people into the park. How could this be done without angering paying customers who have APs or multi-day passes who have basically already paid for entry and are now being denied? You would have to depend on severely limiting walk-up single day passes, which I imagine at this point are such a small percentage of daily visitors to WDW that limiting them may not cause a noticeable drop in attendance. Also, potential visitors that have somewhat limited funds available would be forced to choose the "cheapest" times to visit, which could make those times as busy as the normal peak times.
 

POLY LOVER

Well-Known Member
I definitely agree that Disney needs to do SOMETHING to control the crowds!

There are people that may only be able to afford to go once in their lifetime, and won't be able to enjoy everything because of the crowds!

I do like your idea of increased cost when they get to a certain capacity, however it could possibly be abused!

if htey do that it will lose the magic. When you begin to dilute the product with multiple sites then you are just another theme park franchise, heaven know s America has enough franchises. Both current Parks have actual Walt Disney connections, another Park will not hav any history behind it. I would never go.

As also mentioned, Disney is expanding it's parks which could help with the crowds!

I know this is beating a dead horse, and it won't happen, but Disney should build a 3rd location here in the US! They are getting too big for their own britches! LOL, I know I am biased, but Central Texas would be a good location, LOL!
 

space42

Well-Known Member
I personally do not feel that demand pricing will in any way affect crowds. People go when they can for the most part (school, vacation , etc) The demand based pricing will just take advantage of this by increasing pricing the most for people who can't change when they can vacation.

The only thing that will help with crowding is actually adding to the attraction roster.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
I personally do not feel that demand pricing will in any way affect crowds. People go when they can for the most part (school, vacation , etc) The demand based pricing will just take advantage of this by increasing pricing the most for people who can't change when they can vacation.

The only thing that will help with crowding is actually adding to the attraction roster.

I agree-but adding to the attraction roster outside of MK. Adding more attractions to MK without expanding the total size of MK will only increase attendance; adding attractions to the other parks will draw more visitors to those parks and away from MK-right now, MK is the only full-day park option for most people who visit WDW.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
If you've followed my posts over the years, you know I have been a huge supporter of increased ticket prices, particularly during the most crowded times. Crowd control is important in maintaining a positive guest experience and preventing Disney Parks from becoming a "beating" to visit. Disney finally agrees. The parks are too crowded and something needs to be done.

Demand Based Pricing is the only solution to Disney's current crowd problems. As you've all heard by now, Disney is seriously considering moving to dynamic ticket pricing, depending on congestion. You want to go during a popular time like Christmas? You'll pay more for your ticket. It already happens at their hotels of course and we see this in many industries like Hotels, Airlines, Uber, and Tollways.

Let me be clear - I am in no way supporting Disney's path to get here, but we are here nonetheless. I simply recognize that this is a possible solution in the interim.

Ideally, Disney would have expanded over the last 10 years, instead of squeezing margin and packing guests into its aging parks. Iger really ignored WDW and it's a shame. They are making some progress in expansion with the recently announced Toy Story, Stars Wars, and Avatar, but it's too late to help today.

Objectively, demand based pricing makes sense in the parks. I think Disney's goal is clear...spread the attendance more evenly throughout the year and remove the seasonality of guests as much as possible. They also recognize that constantly jam packed parks lower guest satisfaction and repeat visits.

My fear is that they will not only increase prices during peak times, but they'll still allow too many people inside the parks, despite higher prices. I think Disney is in store for a surprise. Increasing ticket prices 20-30% during the holidays will not be enough to deter guests. What we'll end up seeing is similar crowd levels and we'll end up paying more to visit.

My hope is the demand based pricing not only deters guests from going, but it also makes Disney comfortable with allowing fewer guests in while still meeting revenue projections. I think Disney and guests will be surprised exactly how much pricing needs to be raised to make people think twice. Steady price increases have not worked thus far. I think we are talking double, or more.

The only way this works is something like this for example. Today, we allow 50,000 people to enter the MK. We are going to do two things: Reduce that number to 40,000 AND increase ticket prices 30%. If you only increase ticket prices 30%, you might still have 50,000 people buy tickets. That accomplishes nothing. If this is the path they go down, I am not in favor of it. I don't think they can offer "market pricing" where pure supply and demand determine prices, but that might be interesting as well.

What do you think about dynamic pricing?

I love it, and agree it is the way to go. Supply and Demand all the way!! ...and in this case the effect it has on price.

My tweak to the plan would be to have separate weeks that the price fluctuates. We can have most weeks be cattle-car weeks where the price is rock bottom and the crowds are through the roof. A few weeks however price is double or triple normal and crowds levels respond accordingly.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
I definitely agree that Disney needs to do SOMETHING to control the crowds!

There are people that may only be able to afford to go once in their lifetime, and won't be able to enjoy everything because of the crowds!

I do like your idea of increased cost when they get to a certain capacity, however it could possibly be abused!

As also mentioned, Disney is expanding it's parks which could help with the crowds!

I know this is beating a dead horse, and it won't happen, but Disney should build a 3rd location here in the US! They are getting too big for their own britches! LOL, I know I am biased, but Central Texas would be a good location, LOL!

They really should. Given the global market for Disney parks I would say this is a no brainer. Something has got to give. Current parks are no longer able to meet demand and keep the parks a positive comfortable experience.
 

raven

Well-Known Member
Crowd control is important in maintaining a positive guest experience and preventing Disney Parks from becoming a "beating" to visit. Disney finally agrees. The parks are too crowded and something needs to be done.

Demand Based Pricing is the only solution to Disney's current crowd problems. As you've all heard by now, Disney is seriously considering moving to dynamic ticket pricing, depending on congestion. You want to go during a popular time like Christmas? You'll pay more for your ticket. It already happens at their hotels of course and we see this in many industries like Hotels, Airlines, Uber, and Tollways.

Ideally, Disney would have expanded over the last 10 years, instead of squeezing margin and packing guests into its aging parks. Iger really ignored WDW and it's a shame. They are making some progress in expansion with the recently announced Toy Story, Stars Wars, and Avatar, but it's too late to help today.

As I've stated in another thread, Disney created this over crowding themselves by nearly doubling the # of rooms on property but haven't expanded the parks enough to merit the crowds.

They've dropped the ball on EVERY guest this way, IMO, by giving them a far poorer experience than say 15 years ago due to this. Raising prices just caters to a different income bracket and does nothing for crowds. They need to build more room in their existing parks or build another one. I'm not talking about "replacing" areas with new ones because that defeats the purpose. I'm talking about making new open areas to suck up crowds.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
As you mentioned, increasing prices may not reduce crowd levels-measures will have to be put into place to allow less people into the park. How could this be done without angering paying customers who have APs or multi-day passes who have basically already paid for entry and are now being denied? You would have to depend on severely limiting walk-up single day passes, which I imagine at this point are such a small percentage of daily visitors to WDW that limiting them may not cause a noticeable drop in attendance. Also, potential visitors that have somewhat limited funds available would be forced to choose the "cheapest" times to visit, which could make those times as busy as the normal peak times.

It could not be rolled out immediately. Future APs would have to be sold with different rules depending on the route they wanted to take. The AP's could also triple in price. And keep some perspective here, AP's to Pro-sports events can be stupid expensive. Compared to that a $3,000 AP to WDW is a bargin. ...it really is IF they can get the crowds under control.

Prices absolutely control demand. In almost every model, but especially in a luxury good model (which is what amusement parks are).
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
I personally do not feel that demand pricing will in any way affect crowds. People go when they can for the most part (school, vacation , etc) The demand based pricing will just take advantage of this by increasing pricing the most for people who can't change when they can vacation.

The only thing that will help with crowding is actually adding to the attraction roster.

It is proven that supply and demand affect price in luxury good models. Not really even a question. Price will affect demand for the park at some point. They just have to find it.
 

space42

Well-Known Member
I agree-but adding to the attraction roster outside of MK. Adding more attractions to MK without expanding the total size of MK will only increase attendance; adding attractions to the other parks will draw more visitors to those parks and away from MK-right now, MK is the only full-day park option for most people who visit WDW.

I agree - but the flip side is ANY increase in guest count will add guests to MK. No one is coming to WDW and NOT going to MK.
All 4 parks need added capacity IMHO.
 

space42

Well-Known Member
It is proven that supply and demand affect price in luxury good models. Not really even a question. Price will affect demand for the park at some point. They just have to find it.

Of course - but that is not what this is about. This (rumored) price hike is not about lowering demand. It is about getting more profit from the current demand.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
As I've stated in another thread, Disney created this over crowding themselves by nearly doubling the # of rooms on property but haven't expanded the parks enough to merit the crowds.

They've dropped the ball on EVERY guest this way, IMO, by giving them a far poorer experience than say 15 years ago due to this. Raising prices just caters to a different income bracket and does nothing for crowds. They need to build more room in their existing parks or build another one. I'm not talking about "replacing" areas with new ones because that defeats the purpose. I'm talking about making new open areas to suck up crowds.

Lots of correct, and some misconceptions.

The # of rooms on property affects park demand. ...which is bad when the parks are at near capacity.

Price in a luxury model always affect demand. Period. You are correct, it will cater to a different income bracket, but it will absolutely limit crowds.
 

Raineman

Well-Known Member
It could not be rolled out immediately. Future APs would have to be sold with different rules depending on the route they wanted to take. The AP's could also triple in price. And keep some perspective here, AP's to Pro-sports events can be stupid expensive. Compared to that a $3,000 AP to WDW is a bargin. ...it really is IF they can get the crowds under control.

Prices absolutely control demand. In almost every model, but especially in a luxury good model (which is what amusement parks are).

If the kind of demand pricing is instituted in the method described in this thread, WDW will only be an option for the wealthy for the most part, unless you are a middle class earner who is able to visit WDW and fight the crowds during the few periods in a year where the prices are lower. Kind of an elitist way of doing things.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
Of course - but that is not what this is about. This (rumored) price hike is not about lowering demand. It is about getting more profit from the current demand.

Are you referring to the $1000 AP price? I don't think that is a rumor, it made the cover of CNN.

I agree,, $1,000 will not do the trick. I'd go with $3,000 and see what happens.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
If the kind of demand pricing is instituted in the method described in this thread, WDW will only be an option for the wealthy for the most part, unless you are a middle class earner who is able to visit WDW and fight the crowds during the few periods in a year where the prices are lower. Kind of an elitist way of doing things.

If we were talking about food or housing I'd agree, but WDW is a luxury good. It should be priced as such. Luxury goods are by very definition elitist. I can argue that everyone that has ever been to WDW is an elitist. =P ...more wealth than 90% of the worlds population.
 

space42

Well-Known Member
Are you referring to the $1000 AP price? I don't think that is a rumor, it made the cover of CNN.

I agree,, $1,000 will not do the trick. I'd go with $3,000 and see what happens.

No this is about the future rumored price hikes which will be structured in a similar way to the AP price hike (bronze, silver, gold).
Everyone will pay more but the guests who can only travel during vacation / holidays will pay the most.
 

jloucks

Well-Known Member
No this is about the future rumored price hikes which will be structured in a similar way to the AP price hike (bronze, silver, gold).
Everyone will pay more but the guests who can only travel during vacation / holidays will pay the most.

FWIW the Disney cruise line already does this. $4200 regular, $6400 holiday price. ...thats for 4.
 

Chef Mickey

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
As I've stated in another thread, Disney created this over crowding themselves by nearly doubling the # of rooms on property but haven't expanded the parks enough to merit the crowds.

They've dropped the ball on EVERY guest this way, IMO, by giving them a far poorer experience than say 15 years ago due to this. Raising prices just caters to a different income bracket and does nothing for crowds. They need to build more room in their existing parks or build another one. I'm not talking about "replacing" areas with new ones because that defeats the purpose. I'm talking about making new open areas to suck up crowds.
No question about it. The experience 15 years was better and the amount of space has barely changed (more is closed now than 15 years ago and we only got New Fantasyland).
 

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