Changes in the "average guest" who visits WDW

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
interesting perspective. i too get tired of seeing dunbo and Cinderella in every commercial but that is what sells. I always find it funny how wdw is marketed to different groups. cultural tv networks have a completely different wdw commercial vs what you see on ABC family.

Im not sure the marketing does vary, it seems to me to be aimed at parents of sub 10 year old girls, and revolve around boak inducing over sentimentalised "family" moments, and the blatant attempt to prestend its still 19 oatcake and WDW is pure dead magical.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I would assume the lack of anything new?
WDW has been doing a bit of retheming to appeal to a much younger crowd.

I'll take a stab at it but I'm sure I'll miss things. It also depends on how long back you want to go. My theory is that the trend started in earnest in the late 1990s. Since the opening of Expedition Everest in 2006, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that would appeal to what used to be WDW's core audience.

First, there's lots more meet & greets throughout all 4 parks. Adolescent adults aside, those really are targeted for a young crowd.

At MK, the entire New Fantasyland really is targeted for preschoolers. Then there's the less frightening POTC, Pirates & Princesses makeup/dressup upsells, Stitch overlay on Alien Encounter, and Buzz's Space Ranger Spin.

At Epcot, there's Turtle Talk With Crush, Nemo and Friends, Soarin' (family friendly), Kidcot stops, and Agent P's adventure in the World Showcase. Oh, and the latest overlay on Mexico's El Rio del Tiempo. (With possibly a Frozen overlay on Malstrøm coming soon.)

At DHS, the only thing I can think of is Toy Story Mania and the Jedi Training Camp, but then that park needs family friendly attractions.

At DAK, the Finding Nemo musical is much more child-friend than the high energy Tarzan show.

Conversely, they've added Test Track (although the latest overlay is a bit more immature), Mission Space (definitely not a kiddie ride), and Expedition Everest (hold tight). Expedition Everest is the newest of that bunch and it opened in 2006.

And let's not even mention Pleasure Island. It's opening and closing doesn't fit neatly into any narrative of what WDW once was or what it is today.

I'm sure I'm missing something but what's opened since Expedition Everest that's targeted for teens and tweens?

To me, these changes both reflect and encourage the biggest change in WDW demographics.
 

MarkTwain

Well-Known Member
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.
 

MinnieM123

Premium Member
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.

Thank you for sharing your detailed experiences and insights, while you were a CM. Your post is definitely one of the most interesting ones I've read on these forums.
 

71jason

Well-Known Member
WDW has been doing a bit of retheming to appeal to a much younger crowd.

I'll take a stab at it but I'm sure I'll miss things. It also depends on how long back you want to go. My theory is that the trend started in earnest in the late 1990s.

I generally associate it with the launch of the "Disney Princess" line (detailed in Cinderella Ate My Daughter) and the ensuing attempt to force Stitch into every corner of every park. It may be a chicken or the egg scenario--parks would have been dumbed down using other brands if those two hadn't shown up on the scene--but the emphasis on those two brands seemed to signal the turn-around.

And let's not even mention Pleasure Island. It's opening and closing doesn't fit neatly into any narrative of what WDW once was or what it is today.

I may be misunderstanding, but I disagree--I think it IS the narrative. In PI's heyday, 1 in 6 guests to WDW were adults without children. Convention-goers, honeymooners, Spring Breakers, retirees, even sophisticated . Guests who appreciate golf courses (remember when WDW had 3 of them?), spas, restaurants that serve more than burgers and salmon, nightlife, and even rides not centered on cartoon characters. The past decade--which saw PI neglected then shuttered--has seen reductions in all of those.
 

George

Liker of Things
Premium Member
WDW has been doing a bit of retheming to appeal to a much younger crowd.

I'll take a stab at it but I'm sure I'll miss things. It also depends on how long back you want to go. My theory is that the trend started in earnest in the late 1990s. Since the opening of Expedition Everest in 2006, I'm hard-pressed to think of anything that would appeal to what used to be WDW's core audience.

First, there's lots more meet & greets throughout all 4 parks. Adolescent adults aside, those really are targeted for a young crowd.

At MK, the entire New Fantasyland really is targeted for preschoolers. Then there's the less frightening POTC, Pirates & Princesses makeup/dressup upsells, Stitch overlay on Alien Encounter, and Buzz's Space Ranger Spin.

At Epcot, there's Turtle Talk With Crush, Nemo and Friends, Soarin' (family friendly), Kidcot stops, and Agent P's adventure in the World Showcase. Oh, and the latest overlay on Mexico's El Rio del Tiempo. (With possibly a Frozen overlay on Malstrøm coming soon.)

At DHS, the only thing I can think of is Toy Story Mania and the Jedi Training Camp, but then that park needs family friendly attractions.

At DAK, the Finding Nemo musical is much more child-friend than the high energy Tarzan show.

Conversely, they've added Test Track (although the latest overlay is a bit more immature), Mission Space (definitely not a kiddie ride), and Expedition Everest (hold tight). Expedition Everest is the newest of that bunch and it opened in 2006.

And let's not even mention Pleasure Island. It's opening and closing doesn't fit neatly into any narrative of what WDW once was or what it is today.

I'm sure I'm missing something but what's opened since Expedition Everest that's targeted for teens and tweens?

To me, these changes both reflect and encourage the biggest change in WDW demographics.

Here's a link to a very eloquent way to make this argument. I believe this poster prefers less explanation to see how people react -

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ld-folks-be-saying.879304/page-3#post-5896959
 

Sneezy62

Well-Known Member
@MarkTwain wonderful post. Brands, especially American brands, have became a big part of status and image in Latin American countries

I'm not sure it is just foreign guests with no concern for images of Americana. Just look among Disney fans themselves and you'll find plenty saying they want "Disney" when they go to Disney.

This was the case when WDW opened as well. The difference is the Disney brand in the days when The Wonderful World of Disney was on TV every Sunday night was that it stood for a much more encompassing worldview. Back then the fairytale was a metaphor for Americana and vice versa. Today it's the fairytale that is the brand not the metaphor.
 

NearTheEars

Well-Known Member
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.

One of the best posts I've read on here. People don't like to hear the old "remember, Disney is a business" excuse, but, well, it is. And their target audience is starting to shift.
 

ParentsOf4

Well-Known Member
I may be misunderstanding, but I disagree--I think it IS the narrative. In PI's heyday, 1 in 6 guests to WDW were adults without children. Convention-goers, honeymooners, Spring Breakers, retirees, even sophisticated . Guests who appreciate golf courses (remember when WDW had 3 of them?), spas, restaurants that serve more than burgers and salmon, nightlife, and even rides not centered on cartoon characters. The past decade--which saw PI neglected then shuttered--has seen reductions in all of those.
I'm simply noting that the DLR/WDW of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s was not for adults. They were for families.

There's a reason MK did not serve alcohol and why the company did a lot of handwringing when deciding what to do about EPCOT's liquor policy.

Later, Eisner & co. saw an opportunity to broaden WDW's market by marketing to adults. However, at their core, the Disney parks originally were family entertainment.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I'm simply noting that the DLR/WDW of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s was not for adults. They were for families.

There's a reason MK did not serve alcohol and why the company did a lot of handwringing when deciding what to do about EPCOT's liquor policy.

Later, Eisner & co. saw an opportunity to broaden WDW's market by marketing to adults. However, at their core, the Disney parks originally were family entertainment.
There was a strong attraction towards older demographics. That why in the 1960s a spoke mans once commented that people jokingly ask "Hwne are you going to build a Disneyland for children?" Even the non-theme park recreational activities at Walt Disney World skewed older.
 

bethymouse

Well-Known Member
Off site= lower middle class
value resorts/moderate= middle class and tour groups;)
deluxe= upper middle class
DVC members= upper class

I guess it's such a mix of people that I haven't noticed a huge change: just more diverse groups of people.
 

Pumbas Nakasak

Heading for the great escape.
One of the best posts I've read on here. People don't like to hear the old "remember, Disney is a business" excuse, but, well, it is. And their target audience is starting to shift.

Rather a limited business model, especially when, if the assumptions are correct, your new target market is reliant on the majority of its earnings from the market you are now neglecting because of dwindling disposable income.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
interesting perspective. i too get tired of seeing dunbo and Cinderella in every commercial but that is what sells. I always find it funny how wdw is marketed to different groups. cultural tv networks have a completely different wdw commercial vs what you see on ABC family.

I personally would not want to sacrifice brand image in favor of what sells. If I didn't know anything about WDW and watch the commercials, I'd think it was some kind of kiddie park rather than a enormous, sophisticated resort complex.
 

Tom Morrow

Well-Known Member
One problem with the shift toward foreign guests, beyond the obvious tour groups misbehaving and causing chaos, is that WDW is not all that well equipped to handle them. For starters, some CM's speak Spanish, but beyond that, any other language and you'll be hard pressed to find any CM that can speak it.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
I've theorized on this for a bit and I believe Spirit has mentioned it in passing as well.

While the numbers for WDW have been steady, and MK especially, I wonder if we're not just seeing a difference in the kinds of attendance we're seeing in the parks.

For example, instead of having individual families with kids visiting every few years, who keep up the attendance, it seems like we're seeing a lot more tour groups from Brazil and Argentina, the cheerleaders/twirlers, pop warner football, band competitions, Star Wars weekends, Food and Wine Festival (to bring out the locals), etc.

My thought on this is, people often say that WDW doesn't need to change things, because their attendance remains higher than other parks, but is it because of their quality, or just the special deals that all of these other groups are getting?

location, location, location... WDW wins the Disney park race because of all the parks it has the best location. DL is smaller and only really caters to locals in the area... DL in Europe is in a crappy place weather wise, Tokyo is way pricey... So really WDW will always win the race for Disney customers. I thought they might be likely to lose out to Universal, but given the prices of a trip to Universal vs WDW I don't think that will happen unless Universal does some serious price drops... But back to the location... DL will only be a better deal for US folks that live near. When you get to the mid-part of the country WDW becomes cheaper, so not because WDW is cheaper than DL but because California makes everything else so much more expensive.
 

The Empress Lilly

Well-Known Member
Yes. And my apologies for the mega-post.

This is one of the biggest things I've noticed in my recently ended stint as a cast member, and I was about to start a big thread on this myself, but couldn't quite find the words for it. But the average WDW audience has shifted dramatically away from the stereotype of the average American family saving up from their big trip to Orlando, and far toward foreign guests, many (or most) of whom travel independently from tour groups. I think tour groups tend to draw more attention to themselves, but there are many, many guests who travel from other countries (predominantly Latin America) on their own. (And for the record, far from just Brazilians - I'm fluent in Spanish, and it seems like we get many more Central Americans and Argentinians than Brazilians).

In many ways, I think this change of audience is actually one of the greatest challenges facing WDW right now. While Disney sees this as an opportunity for a new market and increased attendance, it causes some problems for us as Disney fans who care about the original intentions of the resort. I don't mean that in a racist way at all - I have had both wonderful and unpleasant interactions with guests from every country - but there is no denying a basic major truth in the way Disney now operates:

Disney no longer sees American guests as their main target audience anymore. Disney fans on sites like this one see foreign guests as an annoying group disrupting the WDW experience for the main audience... but the truth is that they now ARE the main audience, and the fact that Disney caters to them more than to us is likely one of the primary sources of discontent with how the resort is being run.

Don't like the prices at the deluxe resorts? You're not alone. I handled countless merchandise transactions involving package delivery, and if the person I was speaking to was in American English, I could guess 9/10 times that the package was going to Pop, one of the All-Stars, or off-property... with the occasional moderate or DVC. If the guest was foreign, it was probably going to a deluxe. I have friends that work as concierge at two of our most expensive deluxe resorts... and it's not primarily Americans staying there. One told me how almost every time he picks up the phone he has to pass it to a CM that speaks Spanish, Indian, or Arabic.

Think TSRs are hard to book and overpriced off the dining plan? Or maybe you don't like the service? Well,
I have two friends that work at one of the most expensive and hard-to-book restaurants on property... and it's not Americans eating there. To the contrary, they say it's mostly international guests that plan far enough in advance to find a table for this particular restaurant. It also sounds as if the restaurant has trouble staffing themselves with waiters that are both sufficiently multilingual AND capable of providing the guest service required for a restaurant of this stature - all, of course, while being complacent with what Disney pays its table service waiters (HINT: not a lot).

Perhaps you think the merchandise is too expensive? Not to the Latin American guests that can afford that intercontinental flight to Disney World. If I tell them price of a $29.95 tshirt, they'll shrug and go off to grab four more. They'll spontaneously add on candy and drinks and keychains at the counter even when I'm ringing them up to the hundreds. I'm not sure if they're unaware of how much they're spending, whether our inflation is that bad, or if the Latin Americans that find their way up here are just particularly loaded. Don't know really.

Don't like the state of the Imagination pavilion? No Brazilian guest knows what a Dreamfinder is. Wish that Epcot attractions still had beautifully written scripts, and not "Nemo? Nemo!" over and over? Gotta keep the language simple. I would even guess that part of the reason Soarin' and TSMM see such inflated wait times is because their appeal is so international, and devoid of needing a background in American ideology and cultural references (see: Hall of Presidents, Country Bear Jamboree, or even Enchanted Tiki Room, Universe of Energy and Carousel of Progress).

The truth is, I think Disney loves guests like these. They pile merchandise onto the counter and shell out hundred dollar bills like you wouldn't believe. Honestly, as a cast member, I couldn't really dislike guests like these either. They are often very polite and friendly in one-and-one interactions, especially to any CMs who speak their language (like me). Despite what threads here might say to the contrary, annoying guests come in all nationalities. In reality, it's only Americans that have yanked my neck down by my pin lanyard, complained loudly about our prices, asked over and over if Tinker Bell is actually a man, or any number of other questions I'm not allowed to answer. (Though as I said earlier, I still love and am always thrilled to see American guests - just making a point that American guests are just as likely to be annoying as anyone else).

Beyond just prices though, I wonder just how deeply this shift in audience is impacting WDW, and what kind of relationship these guests have with WDW's legacy as a vacation resort. These are guests who have never seen an Imagination with a Dreamfinder, an Everest with a working yeti, Contemporary without a Bay Lake Tower, a Disney TSR restaurant without the dining plan. Most of these guests have never seen WDW before it became, in all honesty, the giant machine for processing vacations that it has become today.

One of the biggest impacts, IMO, has been on branding, and the way the resort presents itself. These guests don't come for a nuanced study of global culture and history, as presented through themed attractions. Any American guest, regardless of whether they came for the hundredth time or for their first, can walk through Main Street, or Liberty Square, or Frontierland and identify it with a collective part of our national consciousness. Old Key West, the Boardwalk, and Port Orleans Riverside remind us of historic places many of us have actually been to. So many of us are raised on a WDW built on, not on Disney branding, but on images and settings familiar to American culture.

So to inverse this: how many Brazilians have any emotional connection to an Old Southern antebellum mansion when they see one? Guests that travel from Latin America come for a different reason: to visit one of the only physical places in the world built on the power of Disney branding. They can find a world-class resort much closer to home, if that's what they were looking for; more than any expectation of premiere quality and design, what they really came to experience was the breadth of the Disney brand. And that's why Disney now builds hotels themed to Disney characters and movies instead of the old South.

In WDW shops, many of our kitchenware products, pirate swords, toy rifles, bubble toys, and other non-Disney branded merchandise have at least a decent chance with American guests. But among Latin American guests, it is ALL about the branding. Not to over-stereotype here, but the sheer image of a Disney character on a $29.95 toy seems to be enough to get them to buy it. Perhaps not surprising; for the difficulty of getting here from a place so distant, they probably want to load up on branded merch not available at home.

Guests from 5,000 miles away don't wanted idealized recreations of American history, they don't want fine silverware from Liberty Square, they may not want even want Epcot's living blueprint of the future. They want to see all the princesses on the parade float, to see the castle, and to buy their photo on Splash Mountain for $18.95.

So this ultimately, I think is the root for so many of the changes we're seeing in the WDW of today. Many of us complain about prices, and wonder who in their right mind is going to be willing to pay over $100 for a single day in the parks anymore, or who would pay a grand for a room at the Grand Floridian, or even $4.95 for a lollipop... well, maybe we're just thinking too much like Americans, raised on the value of our own currency. While we complain and wonder who would pay so much, perhaps we should acknowledge that these prices are not being set for us. If we complain that Disney has torn out a classic World Showcase attraction and replaced it with a ride based on a hit princess movie, remember that many guests value seeing those characters more than they value an educational experience. Honestly, as long as Disney continues to see these guests as more profitable customers than middle-class Americans, I'm not sure how we can expect this to change.
Awesome post! I think you identified one of the main drivers of change at WDW.
 

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