Buyer Beware - Renting Points

[squidward]

I'm hoping by posting this, the same thing won't happen to others that has happened to me. Now, don't get me wrong. I know full well when you rent points from an owner you're taking a risk. That's the gamble you take for paying less money. And I've rented points for years and never had a problem. Anyways, here's what happened to me:

I rented points which cost several thousand dollars for a trip for next year. I just rented them last month at my 11 month window. Sadly for me, after 8 years with my company, I was laid off last week. As a line of protection knowing my company was in trouble, I did purchase trip insurance. However, not wanting to go through the typical insurance nightmare, I contacted the seller. I explained the situation and his response was "Try to rent the points yourself...I don't have time to do it." I could maybe understand this if it was say 2-4 months in advance of the points expiring or of my trip, but this was 10 months before the trip. Crappy seller attitude. Luckily in my case, the contract the seller sent said NO REFUNDS, as it's the only way I even have a chance of getting my money back through the insurance company, which lord knows, I need to do.

What I'm getting at is do your research. Don't get involved with a seller who is only a member of DVC as a business. Do your homework and find someone who will be helpful if an unfortunate situation arises. There are many helpful owners out there. And as much of a pain in the neck as they are to deal with, if you do rent points, buy trip insurance to cover yourself.

You know what the kicker is? If I do get the money back from the insurance company, not only has the seller got my money, but he also gets to keep his points. My guess is, this is why I'm having some problems with the insurance company. For all they know, it could be a scam between the seller and buyer. My guess is, in time, unless you purchase your trip from a licensed travel agent or broker, you'll be out of luck in scenarios like mine. And who knows, I may be out of luck as well if they deny my claim.

 

[PolynesianPrincess]

I'm so sorry to hear about your job Fingers crossed you find work soon!!

As for the seller, while I do understand that buying points is a risk and you do have a contract, clearly the seller doesn't have a heart. They should stop and think how they would feel if the situation were reversed. Karma will come back to this person in the end and hopefully everything will work out for you!

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

You know what the kicker is? If I do get the money back from the insurance company, not only has the seller got my money, but he also gets to keep his points.

Why ? The seller, no matter how much of a they've been, can't have both (unless US law is completely different from the UK).
In this situation, if you get your refund from the insurance company then the points belong to them, or they will take steps to recover their loss by chasing the seller through the courts.
If that were not so, you could fraudulently enter into an agreement with the seller and continue to defraud the insurance company, splitting their payout between you.

 

[lebeau]

I am reluctant to jump into this, but I'm not sure I understand why the seller should be on the hook for this. He held up his end of the bargain. He said "no refunds". It's a shame about your company. You have my sympathies. But why should he be impacted by that?

I guess I'm hung up that you knew your company was in trouble enough to buy trip insurance. Sounds like that was the right call to make. Smart thinking to protect yourself. But the seller had no way of knowing that you would be unable to hold up your end of the arrangement.

Could he have been more helpful? Sure. But it sounds like the guy is well within his rights. I don't think I would behave any differently to be honest.

 

[squidward]

Why ? The seller, no matter how much of a they've been, can't have both (unless US law is completely different from the UK).
In this situation, if you get your refund from the insurance company then the points belong to them, or they will take steps to recover their loss by chasing the seller through the courts.
If that were not so, you could fraudulently enter into an agreement with the seller and continue to defraud the insurance company, splitting their payout between you.

This is my point. And let's face it, there are a lot of less than standup people out there. I can see sellers telling people to buy trip insurance, then they make out like bandits.

I'm going to get my money from the insurance company, but it kills me to know that this guy has both my money AND the points.

 

[squidward]

Could he have been more helpful? Sure. But it sounds like the guy is well within his rights. I don't think I would behave any differently to be honest.

Being within one's right and doing the right thing are 2 different things. He has MORE than enough time to re-rent the points.

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

Glad to hear you'll get your money back. Rest assured, your insurance company will hound the other guy down

 

[lebeau]

Being within one's right and doing the right thing are 2 different things. He has MORE than enough time to re-rent the points.

I get that. But this guy completed a transaction with you in good faith. And by your own admission, when you entered into this agreement, you were uncertain about your ability to hold up your end. You specifically indicated that you sensed something like this might happen and that is why you purchased the insurance. Under those circumstances, you either should not have purchased the expensive vacation or you should get reimbursed by insurance. Which is what you're doing so it sounds like it all worked out.

I'm just not sure why you're complaining about this guy. If anyone has a right to complain, I think it's him.

 

[CAPTAIN HOOK]

I'm just not sure why you're complaining about this guy. If anyone has a right to complain, I think it's him.

You make a valid point - after all a contract has been agreed to at the time of the sale. The seller has his money and has agreed to make his points available to the buyer.
What the OP resents is a) the lack of compassion of the seller for the situation the buyer now finds himself in, and the fact that the seller has a long period of time to resell them if he did the decent thing, and b) the fact that the seller (for the time being) has the money and retains his points.

 

[lebeau]

You make a valid point - after all a contract has been agreed to at the time of the sale. The seller has his money and has agreed to make his points available to the buyer.
What the OP resents is a) the lack of compassion of the seller for the situation the buyer now finds himself in, and the fact that the seller has a long period of time to resell them if he did the decent thing, and b) the fact that the seller (for the time being) has the money and retains his points.

Agreed.

Here's the thing. It takes effort to sell points. The seller made that effort and sold the points. He's entitled to the money. The OP indicated that this person rents points as a business. So if he goes out and tried to rerent the points again, he basically gets no benefit from all the resources he used to make the first sale. There is a cost to him to take his product back to market. Instead of reselling points he already sold, he could be using those resources to sell points he still has in his inventory.

The buyer went into this transaction knowing the risk. In fact, he took steps to protect himself. But the seller had no way to protect himself from the risk of the buyer losing his job except to state up front that all sales are final - which he did.

If I were in the buyer's position, not only would I not expect the seller to refund my money. I would be embarrassed to go back and ask him. But if I did go back and ask him and he said "no" (which is the only answer I could reasonably expect given the terms of the transaction), I certainly wouldn't go venting about it.

Once again, I'm glad everything appears to have worked out. I hope the OP bounces back from this setback which is obviously more important than another trip to Disney World. But he's really not in any position to complain about the way this situation worked out. He basically created the situation by committing to an expensive vacation which he knew he might not be able to pay for.

 

[flynnibus]

New Thread Title: Warning to buyers - buying vacations far out has risks

I would have offered the guy some money to say 'please let me out of the agreement'

The seller is stonewalling, but is actually making life worse for himself. Renting is hard enough, renting with MORE people in the mix? Probably a nightmare

 

[squidward]

I'm just not sure why you're complaining about this guy. If anyone has a right to complain, I think it's him.

What does he have to complain about? He has his points to resell PLUS he has my money. Now, if the insurance company goes after him, that's a different story. I just didn't think they would.

 

[squidward]

New Thread Title: Warning to buyers - buying vacations far out has risks

I would have offered the guy some money to say 'please let me out of the agreement'

The seller is stonewalling, but is actually making life worse for himself. Renting is hard enough, renting with MORE people in the mix? Probably a nightmare

I tried that. He has no interest in helping out.

Don't misunderstand me, I get my part in all this. I've rented points probably 7-10 times in the past. I just had a bad feeling that unfortunately came true this year. I guess it's different strokes for different folks. It's not in my nature to kick someone when they're down, regardless of the situation. I try to help people out whenever I can.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Did you at least offer to pay him/her for their time? I would expect that at the very least a "restocking fee", if offered, might help. Maybe not, as this person sounds like a "that's tough" kind of person. I could never do this to someone, though I would expect to get some sort of reimbursement for my time, and at least refund a portion of the payment.

 

[Minthorne]

If the seller cancels the reservation in the buyer's name and recoups the points before the reservation has passed then the seller is in breach of the contract and the buyer would be entitled to a refund from the Seller. The seller is contractually obligated to maintain the reservation. If the buyer doesn't show up for the reservation the points are forfeit.

 

[lebeau]

What does he have to complain about? He has his points to resell PLUS he has my money. Now, if the insurance company goes after him, that's a different story. I just didn't think they would.

He's got a buyer coming back to him a month after the deal was completed trying to get a refund for something that has nothing to do with him.

I think him asking you to find a new renter is more reasonable than you expecting him to find a new renter. As someone else pointed out, if he does find a new renter, he should be compensated in some form. But I don't think he should be expected to do that. It sounds like the risks were clear up front. No refunds means you are taking on all the risks.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

If the seller cancels the reservation in the buyer's name and recoups the points before the reservation has passed then the seller is in breach of the contract and the buyer would be entitled to a refund from the Seller. The seller is contractually obligated to maintain the reservation. If the buyer doesn't show up for the reservation the points are forfeit.

Depends on how the contract is written. If it says there are no refunds, then the seller may be able to cancel if the buyer says there is no chance they can make the trip.

 

[Minthorne]

Depends on how the contract is written. If it says there are no refunds, then the seller may be able to cancel if the buyer says there is no chance they can make the trip.

I'd imagine if this were the case the Buyer would have to do that in writing and surrender their rights in the contract - which would negate the contract and any hope of insurance. I doubt the contract would allow the Seller to cancel the reservation with just the information the buyer said there was no way they could make the trip. If it did then that's a pretty bad contract and good luck with the insurance.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I'd imagine if this were the case the Buyer would have to do that in writing and surrender their rights in the contract - which would negate the contract and any hope of insurance. I doubt the contract would allow the Seller to cancel the reservation with just the information the buyer said there was no way they could make the trip. If it did then that's a pretty bad contract and good luck with the insurance.

Also depends upon the insurance. For us DVC members, if we buy insurance through DVC for our trips, it doesn't even mention the use of points. Only that they will reimburse any unrecoverable actual dollar expenses paid out. So if you know far enough in advance that you cannot make your trip, but you have already bought non-refundable plane tickets, you cancel the trip via DVC to get your points back, and then submit the claim for the airline tickets to the insurance company. I saw nowhere in the travel insurance information that talked about refunding points. DVC already has firm policies in place for returning points to your bucket, and it matters not to them whether you take the trip or not. Only thing that matters is when you cancel.

In his case, he paid a non-refundable fee for the points, which is the same as making a non-refundable cash reservation. The seller will almost certainly get his points back without refunding any money due to the contract signed. Do I agree with him? Well, no totally, but again, I would be okay with a refund as long as there was some mutually agreed upon fee. Anyway, I don't think the insurance company will have any leg to stand on as far as the seller's DVC points go.

 

[EOD K9]

I've rented my points in the past and have never had a situation like this. If the person canceled within 30 days and my points went in to the holding account, then I probably wouldn't issue a refund because they would be hard to re-rent.
On the other hand, I used the money to pay for my cruise. That is money I depended on to pay for it. We don't know what the seller's situation is. I do like the restocking fee if it's well outside of the cancelation time for the member.