News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[Earl Sweatpants]

Let me use another analogy then. Remember Mike Tyson's Punch-Out? Of course you do, that game was great. Anyway, there was a code that allowed you to skip all the way to end and fight Mike. You would invariably lose. Why? Because you're jumping straight up to the end without mastering the skills of blocking and dodging. You need to slog through Glass Joe and King Hippo and Piston Honda.

So it is with the Libertarians and the Green Party. Running for President is the boss stage of politics. And they're getting beat because they haven't gone through the Glass Joes of school board elections, Von Kaisers of city councils, King Hippos of state legislatures, and Soda Popinskis of the House of Representatives.

Please don't get me wrong...I completely agree with you on the election front (and for the record, always sucked at Punch-Out).

I just think in terms of Epcot...they did start from the "bottom" with new ideas and people really took to it for a long time, until they got tired and saw people leave them for other parties. Now the old war-horse is trying to stay relevant and "hip" by making itself appear all flashy and appealing to the kidz, at the expense of throwing away what it used to stand for. OK, that may be a stretch of the analogy, but I think you get the point.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

I agree that an IP-less Epcot was great, and the lack of characters was a refreshing break. I think a non-IPed Epcot is superior in many ways to having a bunch of characters ala Magic Kingdom. I also think that IP overload should be a concern. You can only take so much Mickey and Donald. I really like the fact that my resort room is not flooded with overt character images and voices all over the place. Yet, slapping IPs on stuff is a way to satisfy that kneejerk urge to associate a place with a great story or movie. Sadly, that's the direction that Epcot is taking, and our quick association with an IP and a park is the human nature reason that it's likely happening. That's today's Marketing, 101.

But see, that's just it! The "knee-jerk" urge to associate a place with a great story was something Epcot already had. I rode Horizons, Living Seas, Living with the Land, Journey Into Imagination, etc, a thousand times and fell in love with those stories. Now most (if not all) are gone. Replaced, when they should have been maintained and updated accordingly.

The bottom line for me is that Epcot used to stand alone at the top of being the only park like it in the world. And rather than maintain that status of a top-tier elite experience, its trying to scramble and be just like every other park (character/IP inclusion).

They really swung for the fences when they opened and hit a huge home-run in the big leagues...But now because "times change", they just seem to want to play recreational softball at the park when everyone knows they're better than that.

 

[Bocabear]

I know you didn't say "all" guests, but I still don't agree. You're basically saying that if a family who has never been to Orlando before is planning out their trip they're going to say "Hmmm Universal has a Harry Potter world...and Epcot has that pretty out-dated Epcot Center with no IP's...so, let's just scrap WDW completely and go ride on broomsticks!" Maybe I'm just reading too much into that.

"Times change" is a tired cliche that says you shouldn't fight for something you're passionate about. But this frantic IP-inclusion is a trend that is all about quick gain and fast turnaround. I don't know, but I'd rather take it from Disney Imagineering legend Marty Sklar who said, "remember, the last three letters of trend are E-N-D."
We are seeing the trend of IP-inclusion in Epcot and subsequently the END of the Epcot Center we all loved. Coincidence?

And for the record, I know IP's have been around long before and that using them isn't new per say. But it just seems that the answer to any question now a days is "give it an IP bandaid", and I think that's inherently flawed.

Perhaps it's not just the IP that people are positively responding to, but a quality immersive experience with new technology... Let's face it, Disney has been coasting for a long time while all their parks have had considerable decline until more recently...when they have started to wake up to the current state of things... IPs are one way of capturing the public... but not the only way...

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

Perhaps it's not just the IP that people are positively responding to, but a quality immersive experience with new technology... Let's face it, Disney has been coasting for a long time while all their parks have had considerable decline until more recently...when they have started to wake up to the current state of things... IPs are one way of capturing the public... but not the only way...

Disney could have easily kept all their existing "themes" for the rides and just updated the technology and no one would have complained. (I mean, I hope...but people do find a way)

 

[Bocabear]

Disney could have easily kept all their existing "themes" for the rides and just updated the technology and no one would have complained. (I mean, I hope...but people do find a way)

I agree...frshen up the appeal for a new audience by updating, making it more immersive and thematic...not necessarily scrapping the idea and going for a movie tie-in

 

[Ralphlaw]

But see, that's just it! The "knee-jerk" urge to associate a place with a great story was something Epcot already had. I rode Horizons, Living Seas, Living with the Land, Journey Into Imagination, etc, a thousand times and fell in love with those stories. Now most (if not all) are gone. Replaced, when they should have been maintained and updated accordingly.

The bottom line for me is that Epcot used to stand alone at the top of being the only park like it in the world. And rather than maintain that status of a top-tier elite experience, its trying to scramble and be just like every other park (character/IP inclusion).

They really swung for the fences when they opened and hit a huge home-run in the big leagues...But now because "times change", they just seem to want to play recreational softball at the park when everyone knows they're better than that.

Agreed. The IP is a shortcut to a fully immersive onsite story. The success of Pirates of the Caribbean starting as an attraction and then becoming a movie franchise was another step in the slow doom of this notion of stand alone stories for attractions. It would be nice if they could keep it up, but it's riskier. So much safer just to slap an IP on it to help assure success.

Just like it's easier to win a campaign by slinging mud rather than portraying a positive image of yourself. IPs work, tapping into our desire to see that movie something rather than taking the chance at something completely new. Heck, Walt seemed to care very little about the Disneyland-like park on the Florida property, focusing his attention on that crazy new Epcot thing. Once he died, the focus went right back to the tried and true safe Disneyland formula and Epcot mutated into a new type of theme park that Walt never conceived of. But even that wasn't very new because, let's face it, World's Fairs had been doing the same thing for over a century.

In any event, we'll see if IP overload kicks in. Only then will they likely step away from slapping IPs everywhere.

 

[bhg469]

I agree...frshen up the appeal for a new audience by updating, making it more immersive and thematic...not necessarily scrapping the idea and going for a movie tie-in

One of my major clients is a county fair. A few years ago, they spent a ton of money in what they call the acgricultuiral discovery center. It was definitely in the tens of millions. The building is huge and has a few sections. A giant combine simulator that is in an actual full sized combine. A small theater. few stalls where expectant cattle are in pens for live birth demonstrations. A small dairy to demonstrate milking by hand and modern milking machines. Then you have a laser guided robot that milks a fake cow. Every time I walk into that building I think is what I feel like the land would evolve into if EPCOT grew with intelligent visitors in mind. Of course the boat ride would still be there but there would be more to it.

But nope... We get lasers and sci fi box office smashes.

 

[V_L_Raptor]

Maybe they were trying to figure out how many tons of salt they would need to salt the rim of the spaceship earth martini glass, after they cut the top off of it. Of course they will then rebrand EPCOT to Browsing Eating Learning Cooking Habitats Park. And of course the fans acronym with then be BELCH.

It's Futuristic And Recreational Theming that will require Guest Services CM's to take Super High Intensity Training to present its glories effectively to the public.

 

[FigmentJedi]

Don't be surprised if Tomorrowland also starts looking more like its movie, with George Clooney and Hugh Laurie lookalikes wandering around.

The Tomorrowland movie flopped, ergo any plans to use it in the parks are dead.

 

[raven]

Future World died with they moved away from "Epcot Center" (and Marty Sklar even hated the change). There's no direction or flow now. It's all just individual buildings with their own little identities that don't really seem to tie in together anymore.

 

[gmajew]

Harry Potter works because of the IP first then it is IP that lends itself to be a land and that people want to be a part of and explore and spend time in. It is a world that was able to be brought to life and people from the books and the movies wanted to experience it. It is way way more then the two rides it is walking the area enjoying butter beer going into the stories tou read about and experienced over many many years. That is why this land is so special and not many IP can accomplish this type of experience.

Disney has one such IP that can work and that is Star Wars. But the issue with this is that as great as this Ip is and how crazy this fan base is and I am one of the die hard fans it still lacks some of the appeal of potter.

Nothing in Star Wars world lends itself to a drink everyone has imagined trying or stores we all want to see and experience. It is ip that takes place in vast planets that can get confusing and hard to remember. For this land to be successful Disney has got to make the people walking around the secondary experiences out of this world to get people to explore and see things that bring them into the movies and books. That is why it scares me a little that they are going to a new planet one not experienced before.

Mind you I will be giddy seeing aliens and droids walking around and performing street acts. I would love to eat at the cantina but I need to be lost in the world using the force to explore little crannies of it and becoming one with the story.

Potter was able to do this for me and many others. I am a bigger Star Wars fan and I hope they are able to do the same.

 

[raven]

I would love to eat at the cantina but I need to be lost in the world using the force to explore little crannies of it and becoming one with the story.

And you can bet that Cantina will have a 3 to 6 month reservation waiting list because I have a feeling it will be very small and not designed for the normal WDW guest masses.

 

[Mike S]

And you can bet that Cantina will have a 3 to 6 month reservation waiting list because I have a feeling it will be very small and not designed for the normal WDW guest masses.

As a cantina shouldn't it be small to be in theme like the shops at WWoHP?

 

[marni1971]

Is this coaster more thrill, less theming would you say? (Compared to something like Gringotts or Mummy)

I know of two proposals, one BTM and one Mummy+. I don't know which is leading.

 

[PorterRedkey]

I know of two proposals, one BTM and one Mummy+. I don't know which is leading.

Do you have one you are rooting for over another?

 

[marni1971]

Do you have one you are rooting for over another?

Personally I'd prefer the mild version. The other seems a repeat of something elsewhere.

 

[Next Big Thing]

I know of two proposals, one BTM and one Mummy+. I don't know which is leading.

BTM in theme? Because you said something about a backwards launch which is much higher thrill than BTM.

 

[marni1971]

BTM in theme? Because you said something about a backwards launch which is much higher thrill than BTM.

BTM level of thrill.

 

[raven]

As a cantina shouldn't it be small to be in theme like the shops at WWoHP?

Should have a small feel but we all know the capacity issues of hyped or popular small food service venues at Disney (Le Cellier, Trader Sam's, etc.).

 

[PorterRedkey]

Should have a small feel but we all know the capacity issues of hyped or popular small food service venues at Disney (Le Cellier, Trader Sam's, etc.).

I am hoping it will be more like Tiffins or Jungle Canteen where they have a few different themed rooms. It that way it is still an intimate experience. This should work better in the SW restaurant, but I still think they could do this in the Cantina as well.