In all fairness, most of the sensible discussion at WDWmagic is not negative. It's realistic. We're not sugar coated and blinded by pixie dust like elsewhere. Of course, you do have the choice of going somewhere not as.... honest.
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Another Disney Parks "New Years Eve Announcement" 2012
- Thread starter radiohost
- Start date
GoofGoof
Premium Member
I am not a hater, or a doom and gloomer and my posts generally lean towards defending WDW and management when people attack them, but i am not a fan of free DDP. Here's my opinion on the matter. Free DDP is a very effective marketing strategy for TDO. The name of the game is to get people to stay on property and eat on property. In order to get free dining you are required to pay full rack rate for your room and buy a ticket package for the full length of the trip. You are really paying for dining by paying full rack rates on rooms and buying longer passes than you might want or need. The old saying is there's no free lunch and in this case it's true too. In the past before magic your way the ticket plans were much better. All multi day passes included the water parks, park hopping and never expired and the prices were significantly less. In the past they would also offer more room discounts. Booking a package in the past including a 5 day pass with a discounted room was a much better deal. Now the primary discounting offered is free dining. You are essentially getting a dining plan for free that for a family of 4 might cost around $1,000 if you paid cash for it, but would you really spend that much on food? Probably not, so it's not really worth $1,000. And now you have to buy a full price room and a 7 day pass if you stay for a week. Unfortunately, it's the name of the game now and your only other option if you want some kind of discount is to stay off property.
My real problem with free DDP is that it has hurt the quality and variety of food. A lot of the restaurants had unique menu items that are gone now, replaced with more generic options that fit into the DDP. The overall quality is down. ADRs are harder to get and restaurants fill up. People have the mentally that they have to use their sit down credits so more people tend to eat at sit down restaurants than before free dining became the norm. IMHO, it goes a lot beyond just simply not being able to come during the times free dining is offered.
Anthony Alsup
Member
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I guess my point on this is more of a personal preference thing. We would get the dining plan regardless. I have done the math, and if you want to eat a sit-down meal every day (which we do) you would spend just as much at the current food prices. Eating at all of the different restaurants and, yes, waking up early 180 days out to make those hard-to-get reservations is part of the anticipation and fun.
I understand that nothing is really free. But the free dining is about the same savings as the 30% off deal, so I don't see the difference either way. And I really have enjoyed most of the meals we have had on sight. If the quality of food has dropped as much as you say, I can't imagine how good it used to be!
Lisalyn
Well-Known Member
I had the dining plan the week immediately after Thanksgiving. I can honestly say I was not disappointed in any meal at all and the food leaned towards the exceptional side in my opinion. I had the regular dining plan and we ate at least one ADR restaurant per day and 1 counter service restaurant per day. I found everything to be high quality and had no issues. Again just my opinion.
Anthony Alsup
Member
I guess I am glad that I don't have any "perspective" then. Because I don't think I could really enjoy our vacations there if I had as much negative feeling about the place as some of you seem to. I honestly find myself asking "why would these people go to Disney World?" alot when I read some of the stuff here.
One of the biggest draws of staying onsite is the ability to completely block out all of the negatives of this world and just "be here now". Not sure I could do that having so many problems with everything. Plus, why would you spend the amount of money you must to come there if it was so horrible? There are lots of other vacations you could take for lots less.
DocMcHulk
Well-Known Member
That's why I am here. I dont necessarily always agree with the analysis of the facts, but I appreciate the honesty.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
Hate? Well, if you are talking about hate towards the management then I am guilty. The only reason I have that hate is that I love WDW. It has been a huge part of my life. I attended opening day of MK, EPCOT Center and Disney-MGM Studio. I grew up with the parks. Heck, I was "conceived" after my parents were at the 1964 Worlds Fair. A lot of Disney history for me.
As far as the parks go, they are still pretty good. The problem is that they were great to fantastic for almost 30 years. In the last 10 years, they have taken a decided tumble from fantastic to pretty good. Yet, at the same time, you can just look across the country to DLR where it went from pretty good back to fantastic. The problem is that TWDC did not learn from it mistakes in DL in the 1990's and just repeated them at WDW. WDW has a much larger inertia. DLR is like a PT cruiser. WDW is an aircraft carrier. The further it falls, the longer it is going to take to turn around. I personally think if they started now, it would take until 2020 to get the parks back to where they were in 2001.
This is also more of a cultural problem in general. Everyone looks for cheap instead of quality. I actually used to spend about 10X more a year at Disney in 2000 than I do now. I was getting quality for what I was paying. The problem is that there has been a sharp increase in price while at the same time there was decline in the quality I was getting. Is this maybe an elitist attitude? Probably. I hate cheap garbage. I hate the cavalcade of crap, to use an old term from the bad DL days, that infests the parks. I hate that many of the higher end dining choices, which were always filled when I went to them, have been reduced to TGIFriday' fare and setting. I hate that most of the shops I used to buy gifts and items in were destroyed in the great Poohfest. I hate that the rides breakdown so often and major parts of the attractions don't work. I hate that so many choices for adult entertainment and relaxation have been reduced over the last decade. I do have a lot of hate. None of it is hate for WDW. I hate the decision being made by the people running it. I think I show that by spending 10X less money on an annual basis. But, I am not ready to give up on something that has been a large part of my life. Neither am I willing to accept the degradation. It doesn't make much sense for me to make multiple trips to DLR a year. But I am doing it because the quality of the product is far greater than the quality in Orlando. So If you are upset about what you perceive as hate, c'est la vie. I actually think the company is going to have restore the lost quality if they want to grow the product again. There is only so much blood they can get from the turnips called guests. I made jokes about Universal's quality when it opened but right now, they are doing Disney better than Disney in Orlando. That shouldn't happen.
I'm not interested in taking cheap vacations for less. I am interested in taking quality vacations and would pay more if they were available.
Rasvar
Well-Known Member
Yeah, haven't done a vent like that in a while. Nothing personal, just hit the button. But, I think its time for me to take a break for celebrating and hoping for a better year in 2013. Happy New years everyone!It felt good though, didn't it? Sometimes you just need to vent.
WDWFanDave
Well-Known Member
Happy New Year to you, too Martin!!
My hand is in the air:
1979, 1981, 1983, 1986, 1988, 1990, yep, and quite a few since.
DLP in 2000, WDW in 2002, 2005, 2007, 2011 - but we've noticed the decrease in quality at WDW (still love the place, but we all say that "it's not as good as it used to be" - and that's comparing back to 2002, nevermind "The Golden Years")
And Happy New Year to you (and I can say that as it's now 1am where we live!)
googilycub
Active Member
I have been visiting since 1979, and I still think a lot of this hate that has been on this board of late is ridiculous.
SirLink
Well-Known Member
To be fair Martin my first Disney theme park was Euro Disneyland either October '92 or October '93 and first WDW visit was in '94.
But you can see how attitudes and quality of the parks have changed though ...
Thomas morrow
Active Member
*Waves hand* First trip for me was 1977.
Beholder
Well-Known Member
I first visited in 71'. Of course I was an infant (God I'm old!) so I don't remember that visit. My grandparents lived there though and I got to visit MANY times growing up. To me, what's changed the most, is the lack of that "vision" or "mission" that was always pushing the envelope both in telling a story or technology. I still remember those early visits to EPCOT, and I promise you that that's where I "feel" the most difference. The scale and sheer boldness of a park like EPCOT gave me the impression that Disney could do ANYTHING just to wow me. And that was the only thing that mattered, making sure I had the greatest experience I could have, to inspire, to leave me breathless. This isn't hyperbole, it's how I actually felt. And all this BEFORE they had real competition! I think this, this feeling of awe and wonder and ever pushing the envelope is what we want back, not to do some impossible task, but to return to the glory of what made Disney, well, Disney.
Shadowgate
Active Member
First went in 75 at age ten (went to Disneyland in 72 while still living on the west coast) and have been back 22 times since then... basically every couple years.
So when is the announcement? 12am est?
So when is the announcement? 12am est?
Disneyhead'71
Well-Known Member
My first visit was Dec. '71 for my eighth birthday. I let my pass expire in 2011. It was a nice 40 year run, but it just isn't worth if for me anymore. I now spend my vacation dollars elsewhere.
But taking pot shots and WDW is good fun and SOOO easy these days. I mean, with my frustration with the decline of one of favorite places on earth, how could I not smile when Potter kicked them upside the head.
But taking pot shots and WDW is good fun and SOOO easy these days. I mean, with my frustration with the decline of one of favorite places on earth, how could I not smile when Potter kicked them upside the head.
BryceM
Well-Known Member
Well... That successfully destroyed my hopes of something interesting being announced.