Another Bus Crash 4/3

[GrumpyFan]

Did anybody happen to notice the rumor that Screamscape posted yesterday?

General Resort News - (4/9/10) While I have yet to read about this anywhere else in the media, an inside source tells Screamscape that the 81 year-old bus driver involved in Disney’s latest accident was in the midst of working a mandatory 13-hour shift. They tell us that Disney CMs all over property have been working these extra long shifts of late. While I had not heard from anyone else about this yet, I can confirm that Disney has frequently put their Cast Members on ‘Mandatory Overtime’ schedules in the past, though I seem to recall this was requiring many of them to work 6 days a week instead of longer days. Any other Disney CMs care to comment on the kinds of shifts you’ve been getting or hearing about from fellow CMs lately?
Clearly though, if this rumor holds true, Disney Bus Drivers should not be subjected to this kind of labor requirements. No transportation related positions at Walt Disney World (Monorail Pilot, Boat Captain, Bus Driver, Safari Driver, etc) should be allowed to work these kinds of hours. If memory serves, I seem to recall reading an article that mentioned that the Monorail Pilot to who died last July had also been working extreme amounts of overtime.
The Federal DOT does have regulations that involve the number of hours a commercial service driver can operate the vehical without resting which applies to Truck and Bus drivers who travel between states. I believe the current rules for Bus drivers limits them to driving passengers only 10 hours per day. You may also want to check out an interesting chart from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Hours_of_service_FMCSA_study.svgthat shows how quickly the percentage of an accident due to driving fatigue rises as you pass the 10-hour mark.

Any truth or legitimacy here in this?

 

[niteobsrvr]

Did anybody happen to notice the rumor that Screamscape posted yesterday?



Any truth or legitimacy here in this?

If it were to be true, it would still be the drivers fault. Disney shifts in the park like that are not unheard of it but it is the employee's choice usually. However, this accident occurred before noon. Since the busses dont start running much before 6am, this guy couldnt have been working more than 5 to 6 hours at the time of occurrence and also had to have at leat 8 hours off since the end of his last shift before starting this one by DOT rules.

Now if this driver were working another job besides Disney, a whole host of situations could have occurred but Disney would have had no way of knowing about them. Under DOT regulations, it is the drivers responsibility to track and maintain compliance for his or her hours of service.

It is my understanding that most drivers complain because they are only getting 32 hours a week and the ones who do get closer to 40 are also complaining because they really want 32. Its one of those union related scheduling conundrums. By the way, under DOT rules, you can work a little more than 8 hours a day, every day, (no days off ever) and not be in vilolation of the hours of service regulations.

 

[Master Yoda]

Did anybody happen to notice the rumor that Screamscape posted yesterday?



Any truth or legitimacy here in this?

I would think that if this was the case OSHA and the NTSB would have found out during the monorail investigation.

 

[cdunbar]

Any truth or legitimacy here in this?

I do know of a cast member who has been doing mandatroy overtime, but they don't work in transportation.

 

[s8film40]

I would think that if this was the case OSHA and the NTSB would have found out during the monorail investigation.

The limits do not apply to monorails. Yes the monorail pilots had worked very long shifts the night of the accident but this did not break any rules or laws.

 

[Master Yoda]

The limits do not apply to monorails. Yes the monorail pilots had worked very long shifts the night of the accident but this did not break any rules or laws.

I know that they don't apply to the monorails but one would think that during such an extensive investigation into the Disney transportation system that such an obvious violation as bus drivers having mandatory shifts that are 3 hours longer than allowed by law would have come up. I have only been involved with one OSHA investigation and they went way past just looking at the accident that happened. I would assume that with such a high profile case as a Disney monorail accident they would have left no stone unturned.

 

[wm49rs]

I know that they don't apply to the monorails but one would think that during such an extensive investigation into the Disney transportation system that such an obvious violation as bus drivers having mandatory shifts that are 3 hours longer than allowed by law would have come up. I have only been involved with one OSHA investigation and they went way past just looking at the accident that happened. I would assume that with such a high profile case as a Disney monorail accident they would have left no stone unturned.

Mandatory overtime isn't always against the law....

 

[niteobsrvr]

I know that they don't apply to the monorails but one would think that during such an extensive investigation into the Disney transportation system that such an obvious violation as bus drivers having mandatory shifts that are 3 hours longer than allowed by law would have come up. I have only been involved with one OSHA investigation and they went way past just looking at the accident that happened. I would assume that with such a high profile case as a Disney monorail accident they would have left no stone unturned.

Actually, the rule says that a passenger carrying driver may not operate a vehicle for more than 10 hours without an 8 hour break. They may never operate a vehicle after the 12th hour of starting their shift. So someone could have a 12 hour shift and so long as they do not operate the vehicle more than 10 hours, they are legal. 10 hours of driving is fairly common in passenger transportation.

If you are an employee of a Public transit type system, my understand and experience is that the hours of service regaulations are not applicable because they are a government entity. Imagine one of those drivers who comes in at 5 am and is still working at 10 pm at night. Then they have to return at 3 am for their next shift. When I was doing that work, that happened quite regularly and our accident rate was not any more pronounced than Disney.

 

[Master Yoda]

Mandatory overtime isn't always against the law....

No but there are regulations as to how long people can work in certain areas. Driving a bus is one of those areas. The report claimed that drivers were given mandatory shifts 3 hours longer that drivers were legally allowed to work. If that was indeed the case one would think that it would have been found out during the investigation.

 

[s8film40]

No but there are regulations as to how long people can work in certain areas. Driving a bus is one of those areas. The report claimed that drivers were given mandatory shifts 3 hours longer that drivers were legally allowed to work. If that was indeed the case one would think that it would have been found out during the investigation.

There is no legal limit to how much they can work just drive. They will often have a driver work a long shift and once they've passed the limit for driving they give them a non driving position for the remainder of the shift.

 

[Master Yoda]

There is no legal limit to how much they can work just drive. They will often have a driver work a long shift and once they've passed the limit for driving they give them a non driving position for the remainder of the shift.

If that is the case then it is a non issue. Just another case of someone quoting figures that sound inflammatory and leaving out the facts that show that they are not.

 

[hrcollectibles]

I was comparing two modes of transportation, Disney buses (as a collective) and my car. It's a valid comparison because my car is the only car I would use. I could end up on any of Disney's buses. And in the past week, they've had more accidents than my car ever has, making my car statistically safer. You basically helped prove my point.

I am sure the buses have gone more miles than your car.. There fore they, statistically, would have a higher chance of being involved in an ccident..

And according to a article on Screamscape

"

General Resort News - (4/9/10) While I have yet to read about this anywhere else in the media, an inside source tells Screamscape that the 81 year-old bus driver involved in Disney’s latest accident was in the midst of working a mandatory 13-hour shift. They tell us that Disney CMs all over property have been working these extra long shifts of late. While I had not heard from anyone else about this yet, I can confirm that Disney has frequently put their Cast Members on ‘Mandatory Overtime’ schedules in the past, though I seem to recall this was requiring many of them to work 6 days a week instead of longer days. Any other Disney CMs care to comment on the kinds of shifts you’ve been getting or hearing about from fellow CMs lately?
Clearly though, if this rumor holds true, Disney Bus Drivers should not be subjected to this kind of labor requirements. No transportation related positions at Walt Disney World (Monorail Pilot, Boat Captain, Bus Driver, Safari Driver, etc) should be allowed to work these kinds of hours. If memory serves, I seem to recall reading an article that mentioned that the Monorail Pilot to who died last July had also been working extreme amounts of overtime.
The Federal DOT does have regulations that involve the number of hours a commercial service driver can operate the vehical without resting which applies to Truck and Bus drivers who travel between states. I believe the current rules for Bus drivers limits them to driving passengers only 10 hours per day. You may also want to check out an interesting chart from the Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration that shows how quickly the percentage of an accident due to driving fatigue rises as you pass the 10-hour mark."

 

[hrcollectibles]

I think you guys are blowing this age thing way out of proportion. At 81 he has had a LOT more experience driving than most members of this forum have even been alive.

To dismiss somebody because of their age is not only discrimination and illegal, it's also rude.

That doesn't mean his reflexes are what they used to be

 

[Monorail_Orange]

That doesn't mean his reflexes are what they used to be

Yes, but Doug's point was just because someone is a particular age they should not be disqualified from driving a bus. In other words, the person should be subjected to a driving examination whereby they can show competence (or incompetence) with handling a vehicle. If they pass the exam and are qualified in in all other ways, then should be able to drive the vehicle, regardless of their age.

 

[TimNRA757]

Like I said... I know someone who was just issued their CFI at age 78...

 

[unkadug]

That doesn't mean his reflexes are what they used to be

Yes, but Doug's point was just because someone is a particular age they should not be disqualified from driving a bus. In other words, the person should be subjected to a driving examination whereby they can show competence (or incompetence) with handling a vehicle. If they pass the exam and are qualified in in all other ways, then should be able to drive the vehicle, regardless of their age.

Exactly...I'm not defending the driver(s) in question, but to summarily dismiss/exclude/deny/accuse people because of their age isn't right.