Discussion in 'Politics and Social Issues' started by mharrington, Jun 24, 2017.
I'm offended that your offended at her failure to take offense.
And vice versa.
I have it on good authority that the talking skull is historically accurate to that time period.
I actually don't think most people are easily outraged. I think the internet creates an echo chamber where people who think alike converge and become more ingrained in their beliefs until they've vilified anyone who doesn't think just like them. And since the most outrageous statements always get the most likes/retweets people tend to voice their opinions in the most outrageous way possible. I'm sure most people have a much more nuanced understanding of controversial issues than internet conversations would lead you to believe.
It's much the same for me. I survived my childhood exposure to POTC without wanting to act it out in later life. My values were imbued in me by my parents and other significant influences in my everyday life, not an occasional theme park fantasy experience. As a kid, I just rode by in slack-jawed wonder. As an adult, the scene causes me to reflect briefly on how society has changed over the years, but it doesn't provoke any particular distaste.
But I'm an aging man, not a young girl experiencing POTC for the first time in 2017. Her experience will be painted on the canvas of a society very different than the one that produced POTC. As you've also noted, Disney sees the handwriting on the wall.
I enjoy the discussions in the WDWMagic DLR section because they rarely veer off into Cuckoo Land. The vast majority of opinions expressed here, even if I don't always agree with them, are reasonable.
I'm one who used the term ”sexual slavery” earlier, but I realize that portrays an extreme interpretation. Your point is well taken.
And looking at it another way, there have historically been reasons for some unfortunate women to view something like this bride auction as a means to improve their circumstance in life. A woman fending for herself in, say Tortuga, in a time and location that placed no value on her life except as a receptacle, and offered little means to provide for herself beside prostitution or theft, could well see marriage, coerced or not, as an improved opportunity. But of course that's too much nuance to convey in the few moments you're floating past.
I know an older Korean woman who first came to the U.S as a young mail-order bride. She tells me she has no regrets. She built a successful Assisted Living business, assisted by her husband’s property development company. She is now passing that on to her daughter, and is thrilled to be able to do so. She says her life is much better than it would have been had she not had this opportunity.
But then, she wasn’t married off to a cartoon pirate.
As societal commentary goes, I think this is spot on. But many notable exceptions to gender norms have expressed themselves throughout history, and I think a different choice could have made that gun belong in her hand.
I think they didn’t go far enough. If they’re going to put her in league with the pirates, make her a damn PIRATE! There are a number of historical female pirates who swashed those buckles with the best of the boys. These women occupy a pretty spectacular place in piratical history, or at least mythos, which is more to the point, and I think Disney missed an opportunity here, and it's mostly in the costume. Many ship's contracts forbade women from boarding, leading some female pirates to adopt men's clothing, fooling nobody, but providing a pretense to ignore the rules. By following this historical model, while detailing that costume to make her femininity unmistakeable, they could have given girls a fierce, independent, historically supported female pirate icon, navigating her way though a sea of masculinity on her own terms. Not the same as a man, but using her feminine brains to thrive in the world that she is in. Instead, they deliver Annie Oakley in a red dress and boots.
I can't help but feel that this approach would have given the new scene a better purpose than to just cloud over the original story. Of course, I haven't worked out how the supporting cast would support that narrative .. you know ... narratively.
Note: The attached pic isn’t an ideal example of what I mean, being a bit to objectifying, but I didn’t find one that was.
This is one of the few forums where almost everyone is reasonable most of the time.
Very well said.
Here is one of Anne Bonny. They could have gone along these lines to be historically accurate. Too bad people don't like to be historically accurate anymore.
They even missed the opportunity to put in yet another movie character in the ride.
Since the movie is already polluting the ride, I like that idea! It's certainly a better approach than just turning the bride auction into a flea market.
I wish I could have liked this more than once.
I'm definitely in the camp that doesn't want these changes. Do I agree with women being auctioned off? Not at all.
But, if this scene is preventing some people from riding the ride, enjoying the ride, or from wanting to go to Disneyland- I say that's great! Shorter wait times and a less crowded park is a plus.
I also think it's healthy for someone to be exposed to something that makes them uncomfortable in a ride about pirates, since people don't seem to be bothered by the violence, arson, theft, and alcohol abuse running rampant in the ride.
lol. There are multiple moments of pirate "debauchery" to be found in this ride. Yet, people always seem to cling onto this one as the most egregious.
It's because it's singularly about a woman. Today, everything is so touchy regarding how women are portrayed. You can stereotype men all day long, in fact it's encouraged, but if you try and do the same to a woman, you'll get labeled and called all types of things.
I can point this out, being a woman, but God help a man who tries to point the inconsistencies out to anyone. LOL
It's no longer okay to call a women out who is being an idiot if you're a man. Then your "Mansplaining".
I have a son and a daughter, I watch the kid's shows now a days. You can't say anything about girls that could be jokingly offensive, but it's the norm to call boys pigs, idiots, etc, etc.
I want both of my kids to be strong, independent adults, but I think it's encouraged for males to naturally feel lesser to women now, and ashamed of their very maleness. And it makes me mad because my son shouldn't feel like he's inherently bad for being a guy anymore than my daughter should feel lesser for being female.
Ugh, I'm getting too far off topic. lol
Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's misguided to assume that the motivation behind this change is exclusively about guests being offended.
Have you seen the documentary The Mask You Live In CC? I highly recommend it for anyone raising a male child.
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