A Spirited Perfect Ten

[CaptainAmerica]

I've been wondering whether or not they will make some form of formal announcement about Soarin and TSMM. It seems like drawing even more attention to those attractions would make the expansion of them pointless. Guests would still be met with long lines.

Yes but long lines at double capacity is still better than just long lines. You might still wait an hour but twice as many people will get to experience the attraction.

 

[Funmeister]

Yes but long lines at double capacity is still better than just long lines. You might still wait an hour but twice as many people will get to experience the attraction.

You are correct but creating additional different attractions gives the overall park more appeal and it will still take pressure off of those attractions giving more people the opportunity to experience them.

 

[bhg469]

Yes but long lines at double capacity is still better than just long lines. You might still wait an hour but twice as many people will get to experience the attraction.

I mostly agree because it adds capacity to a popular attraction, I don't feel it will double but it will increase. There are others like me however who just don't want to ride it anymore. I'm more prone to go on living with the land on every visit than I am with soarin. It's just a very skippable attraction for me. The line would have to be 20 minutes for me to bother and frankly it never will be that short.

 

[Cody5294]

Rode Splash Mountain yesterday. Only thing that I noticed that wasn't working completely was the Brer Bear animatronic in the laughing place. His head was moving but not his body. Other than that everything else was working. Even the jumping water

 

[lazyboy97o]

As an attraction, I think Manta is the perfect example of impressionistic themeing. That is something that Disney doesn't do all that much. Space Mountain is about the only Disney attraction that I can think of off the top of my head. Universal used it on Hulk and Dueling Dragons to a slightly lesser degree of success.

Oh, and Disney fans will tell you the concept of impressionistic themeing either doesn't exist or sucks.

Because it is more of a half-assed idea like the studio theme concept and really only defines the ride experience itself. Manta as a coaster viewed from the walkway is not a visual element that is part of any larger stage setting, and in fact there is no larger stage setting. It is a cool coaster that entices by its well placed kinetics and then seeks to inform through an engaging aquarium that serves as the queue. The viewpoint of being a manta is only assumed at the station, where the focus is shifted from the environment to the abilities of the animal. Manta is successful doing something different than other nearby attractions because SeaWorld Orlando is conceptually different than an Islands of Adventure, World Showcase, Magic Kingdom or even Disney's Animal Kingdom.

Similarly Dueling Dragons is also not part of a larger visual story and has always had large portions of its track obscured from view, a situation that was only increased with the conversion to Dragon Challenge. The Incredible Hulk is the only one that sort of blends into a larger environment because more industrial elements are repeated elsewhere in the land. Even then, the second half of the coaster, with its less grand visual elements, is again obscured from view.

 

[asianway]

I can't help but feel like Willow Bay has joined the cast of MAGICal mods here as, apparently, what's new this summer (or not new) is somehow not deemed newsworthy.

OK, that's not true. I've talked to MAGICal Steve AKA @wdwmagic and he assures that it is very much a fair topic, but, apparently, there was some sort of ugliness and ''mudslinging'' on that thread and it disappeared. He hasn't said whether Marcia is working frantically to cleanse the cached version while baking some mean pies.

I always miss the fun, so feel free to drop me a note if you have any details on what went down and the parties responsible.

But I'll place the same point/question here (and invite those who have issues with the topic to look inward at themselves and what's really bothering them):

Here we are at the dawn of summer (weather has been summer-like pretty much since March in much of FL) and that is the time of year when park operators nationwide (from mom and pops to regional players to the Big Boys) show off new attractions and entertainment to entice Americans to visit over their vacations.

Here are some facts:

WDW is the No. 1 theme park destination.

WDW has four theme parks and two water parks.

TWDC, parent company to WDW Co, has had one quarter of record profits after another, year after year now.

OK, now a question (one that seems to get under the skin of so many of my fans, who worry daily about my BRAND when they should be worrying about Disney's):

What is new at WDW for the summer of 2015? ***And let's stick to theme parks, no one plans trips around new timeshares or remodeling of a lifestyle center/mall.

And, if anyone decides to go crazy on the topic, please report it immediately to the mods. They don't have an easy job and really don't need people causing trouble just for the helluva it.

Let's try this again.

There's going to be a trough-up this week where they tell you all about it. Hundreds of thousands of dollars to preach to the choir

 

[CaptainAmerica]

You are correct but creating additional different attractions gives the overall park more appeal and it will still take pressure off of those attractions giving more people the opportunity to experience them.

Agreed. And all signs point to that happening for DHS in a big way. This is an important "phase one" to get them through the transition period when large areas of the park will be a construction zone.

 

[Funmeister]

Agreed. And all signs point to that happening for DHS in a big way. This is an important "phase one" to get them through the transition period when large areas of the park will be a construction zone.

True but they could have easily built a clone of a PIXAR attraction from another park (probably cheaper than TSMM addition). THey could have added the Crush coaster from WDS in Marne la Vallee and have achieve the same objective but with more appeal.

I agree with what you are saying as far as why they are doing it...I just believe they could have done it a little different that would have made it more appealing for guests overall.

 

[lazyboy97o]

True but they could have easily built a clone of a PIXAR attraction from another park (probably cheaper than TSMM addition). THey could have added the Crush coaster from WDS in Marne la Vallee and have achieve the same objective but with more appeal.

I agree with what you are saying as far as why they are doing it...I just believe they could have done it a little different that would have made it more appealing for guests overall.

Crush's Coaster has abysmal capacity and show scene wise would be similar to Seas with Nemo and Friends.

 

[GoofGoof]

Agreed. And all signs point to that happening for DHS in a big way. This is an important "phase one" to get them through the transition period when large areas of the park will be a construction zone.

True but they could have easily built a clone of a PIXAR attraction from another park (probably cheaper than TSMM addition). THey could have added the Crush coaster from WDS in Marne la Vallee and have achieve the same objective but with more appeal.

I agree with what you are saying as far as why they are doing it...I just believe they could have done it a little different that would have made it more appealing for guests overall.

Crush's Coaster has abysmal capacity and show scene wise would be similar to Seas with Nemo and Friends.

All good points. I think this series of posts shows the real problem they have with DHS. They need additional capacity, some smaller rides that further increase capacity and a complete makeover of the park with multiple new headliner additions. If they try to add the lesser things to increase capacity as more or less a place holder or add capacity to existing rides a lot of people will be critical (see any discussion on Toy Story Playland). These things are necessary in the bigger picture. The problem is nobody knows what the bigger picture is. Some people even doubt there really is a bigger picture.

The easy way around this would be to finally announce the major makeover that's coming. If there is a formal announcement and possibly some basic concept art it would be a lot easier for all of us to understand and get behind the smaller additions since they would be formally recognized as a small part of a bigger picture. Right now all we have is TSMM is getting expanded capacity and some form of Toy Story Playland is coming some day. Those things alone don't inspire much excitement but as part of a larger plan they would make a lot more sense. People may not be overly excited about those additions, but they would understand why they are necessary as part of the bigger project.

The problem is Disney wants people to visit this park from 2015 through possibly 2020 while construction goes on. They won't announce a major rebuild now for fear that guests will put off visiting the park until the work is done. Frozen summer fun and other special events are helping to keep guests coming back for now. I just don't know if that will hold people's attention for 5 years. It's unlikely. Things may still get worse for DHS before they get better.

 

[suburbianj]

I know why the star wars land is taking so long to come along now.........

 

[George]

I just don't know if that will hold people's attention for 5 years. It's unlikely. Things may still get worse for DHS before they get better.

I actually think it would be nice if the attendance really plummeted due to lack of attention. Does this ever actually happen though? I think they could open up a display of turds taken by different famous big screen thespians and people would queue up for hours and the first 6 months of its existence you'd have 90 minute waits. After a decade the stand by waits would be down to an hour.

 

[GoofGoof]

[QUOTE="GoofGoof, post: 6663764, member: 82601"I just don't know if that will hold people's attention for 5 years. It's unlikely. Things may still get worse for DHS before they get better

I actually think it would be nice if the attendance really plummeted due to lack of attention. Does this ever actually happen though? I think they could open up a display of turds taken by different famous big screen thespians and people would queue up for hours and the first 6 months of its existence you'd have 90 minute waits. After a decade the stand by waits would be down to an hour.

Yep. With multi-day tickets, park hopping and special events attendance won't drop off much. However, they have to be seeing a drop in spending. People just don't stay as long because there is less to do. Removing AIE and Backlot tour without replacements reduced capacity at an already low capacity park. People can show up and hop somewhere else or hop in during the afternoon and catch Fantasmic without spending a full day. I think the key to getting an overhaul green lit is to spin it like they spun the Avatar thing. Spin it as making DHS a full day park again. It's not just about gate clicks but about guest spending and money spent at the park.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Because it is more of a half-assed idea like the studio theme concept and really only defines the ride experience itself. Manta as a coaster viewed from the walkway is not a visual element that is part of any larger stage setting, and in fact there is no larger stage setting. It is a cool coaster that entices by its well placed kinetics and then seeks to inform through an engaging aquarium that serves as the queue. The viewpoint of being a manta is only assumed at the station, where the focus is shifted from the environment to the abilities of the animal. Manta is successful doing something different than other nearby attractions because SeaWorld Orlando is conceptually different than an Islands of Adventure, World Showcase, Magic Kingdom or even Disney's Animal Kingdom.

Similarly Dueling Dragons is also not part of a larger visual story and has always had large portions of its track obscured from view, a situation that was only increased with the conversion to Dragon Challenge. The Incredible Hulk is the only one that sort of blends into a larger environment because more industrial elements are repeated elsewhere in the land. Even then, the second half of the coaster, with its less grand visual elements, is again obscured from view.

I believe you are confusing Macro Themeing with impressionistic themeing.

Macro Themeing is the consistency of theme across a localized environment. Macro and Micro themeing are entirely different than themeing concepts like Realism, Hyper-Realism, Soft Realism, and Impressionistic. BTMRR is Realism. Tomorrowland is Hyper-Realism, New Fantasyland is Soft Realism. And Space Mtn. is Impressionistic.

Space Mtn. and Hulk are similar in that they are both impressionistic attractions in a Hyper-Realistic themed macro environment.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I believe you are confusing Macro Themeing with impressionistic themeing.

Macro Themeing is the consistency of theme across a localized environment. Macro and Micro themeing are entirely different than themeing concepts like Realism, Hyper-Realism, Soft Realism, and Impressionistic. BTMRR is Realism. Tomorrowland is Hyper-Realism, New Fantasyland is Soft Realism. And Space Mtn. is Impressionistic.

Space Mtn. and Hulk are similar in that they are both impressionistic attractions in a Hyper-Realistic themed macro environment.

Micro-themes would be the realm of amusement parks and ultimately lack any depth of meaning because its a means of justify a lack of coherence. The same problem of the studio theme. Theming as executed in theme parks is on a macro level because it is about interconnected experiences. There is no theme in the back half of The Incredible Hulk, it is a n experience built on the visceral sensations, not built visual and auditory elements that set a stage. You're experience out of control anger; and emotion, not a setting.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Micro-themes would be the realm of amusement parks and ultimately lack any depth of meaning because its a means of justify a lack of coherence. The same problem of the studio theme. Theming as executed in theme parks is on a macro level because it is about interconnected experiences. There is no theme in the back half of The Incredible Hulk, it is a n experience built on the visceral sensations, not built visual and auditory elements that set a stage. You're experience out of control anger; and emotion, not a setting.

Actually, micro themeing is the little details that reinforce the macro theme. Like take the French Polynesia section of Adventureland. The Macro theme is French Polynesia. The micro themeing is stuff like the Tiki Gods that squirt water on people.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Actually, micro themeing is the little details that reinforce the macro theme. Like take the French Polynesia section of Adventureland. The Macro theme is French Polynesia. The micro themeing is stuff like the Tiki Gods that squirt water on people.

Those are just theme elements, not even details.

 

[AEfx]

Part of the problem I have with people - not just you - complaining that the hub doesn't look like it did 20 years ago, is that it is NEVER, no matter who is in charge, going to go back to the way it was, so why not look at it for what it is. There are many planting beds with flowers and plants. There are even fountains. They have created continuous benches surrounding the areas, instead of individual benches. There will be trees as well. Maybe not where you want them to be, but they will have them. The work that they have done so far looks to be high quality work, and when a few issues were noticed, it seems that they fixed them right away.

I think that may be where the confusion landed - I have no desire to turn back the clock by 20 years. I believe in tradition and history but in looking back at Disney in both those areas, one value that repeatedly shows up is change. And I also realize that I am not personally the target audience WDW is looking to please (Which is why, say, I have to roll my eyes at at least 1/2 of the posts about Frozen in Norway.)

Now, that said - I still feel like the overall design is poor, in intention if not execution. The intention is to make more exclusive places for people to book six months ahead to watch a 10 minute show.

But what really bothers me the most - what I come down to with each of what little projects WDW actually attempts these days - is the TIME. It's absolutely ridiculous that a project like this is stretched out over years.

I know that contractors/construction companies have collectively decided to slow work down universally (longer it takes = more money they can charge), and how things that 20 or 30 years ago took a few months now take a few years, but Disney has elevated this to a bitter art form. And, conversely, Universal has proven everyone is full of garbage because somehow they can go from breaking ground to a fully built and operational major ride attraction in a year. Disney takes five times as long to build 1/3 as much.

Exasperating all of that is this project in particular, and where it is. I have a realistic view of running a theme park - I completely understand that when the place runs 365, things must go down, it cannot all remain fully operational at all times, etc. That said, what I do miss about 20 years ago is that Disney would realize the incredible impact the Hub in particular has in forming the MK experience, and they would have done it a lot more unobtrusively, and crews would be working on it every single night until it was done.

@marni1971 or someone else in the know can correct me if I am mistaken, but "back in the day" I was under the impression that there were nearly as many folks working in the parks overnight as there were during the day - you know, back when they used to repaint the curbs every few days, that a burnt out bulb would be replaced before the park opens next, and they worked on projects like this so as to keep them as unobtrusive to the guest experience as possible.

That's my overall issue - that no guest has been able to walk into the Hub and into Fantasyland without seeing some sort of obvious construction in this decade. That's the surest sign of how Disney has completely changed their mentality - from creating a magical environment which enchanted guests so much that they spent large amounts of money, to instead becoming exactly what the critics always accused it of - a money pit that expends as little as possible while doing everything they can to manipulate guests in ways that are only advantageous to the Disney company, not the customer experience.

To make a comparison, WDW is a lot like Madonna. As an almost life-long Madonna fan, I've spent the better part of 30 years admiring her and enjoying her work. Back when she was 25, 30, a lot of the antics and irreverence that she got crap for in the general populace were really much more culturally subversive (in a positive way). Sure, she wrapped herself in a flag for a Rock the Vote commercial - which research showed actually got young people to vote. She would do something controversial as the "hook" and then actually had something to say, even though a lot of the media or even general population didn't understand it at the time. (Hell, I saw an interview the other day from the 80's where she used the word "homophobia" - even I had forgotten just how much impact she had in that arena.)

Now, as a woman nearing 60, Madonna has really become what her critics always said she was - she is still doing the same antics, the same thing, but it really is about just getting attention and publicity now. Just like she was always accused of doing, even when that really wasn't the case - of course, it was part of it, but it really did serve a greater good.

WDW is similar in the respect that they have pretty much done the same exact thing - become the monster everyone always unfairly accused them of being. WDW has always been a money-making venture, of course, just like Madonna has always been trying to shock folks into giving her intention - but they used to do quality projects, constantly upped the theme park game, and realized that creating "magic" gave an incredible ROI. They spent a lot and they made a lot.

Now? They do as little as possible, drag out what little they do as long as possible, and clearly after spending 1.5B+ on a program that was only designed to eek a few more cents out of those who already attend, and only a portion of them at that - Disney no longer cares about anything other than increasing revenue, at the expense of all the good will and "magic" which is really what "addicted" folks to begin with. They are completely content with being trounced in the area of theme park attractions by Universal.

That's what I miss about WDW - it's not that I expected the Hub to stay a "museum" of itself, but that as I see it remade - I see it remade with the same lack of values that nearly everything added to WDW over the past decade has been. Not to make things more magical while also making profit, instead concerned about nothing but short-term profits and aren't even pretending anymore to actually be about guest experience.

 

[AEfx]

Clearly, TWDC wants the world to know that it owns Marvel and Lucas. From Disney Infinity to theme parks (that aren't in the swamps) to pushing the properties on ABC and ESPN etc, everyone is supposed to know who is Spidey and Darth Vader's daddy. Ya know?

Come on, let's be fair - if Disney spent 4B on Lucasfilm and 4B on Marvel, and were not exploiting them as fully as possible, folks would be complaining that they weren't using their investment wisely.

 

[marni1971]

@marni1971 or someone else in the know can correct me if I am mistaken, but "back in the day" I was under the impression that there were nearly as many folks working in the parks overnight as there were during the day - you know, back when they used to repaint the curbs every few days, that a burnt out bulb would be replaced before the park opens next,

"Back in the day" there was a three man crew who were solely dedicated to replacing bulbs. They would aim to replace anything at 80% of life expectancy. They weren't always perfect but that was their job.

Public realm maintainence is on the up again it seems thankfully, at least in DHS and the MK, but is still less than it used to be.