Are we to blame for WDW cutbacks?

whylightbulb

whylightbulb

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
If anyone caught Al Lutz's "Ask A Columnist" today you undoubtedly noticed his following quote:

"...the rabid Walt Disney World fan boys who attack anything online they perceive as negative about the resort (to the sheer delight of the management there, whose use these posts to justify further cutbacks) along with the many WDW-focused sites that delete critiques of any kind, it practically insures that the East Coast complex will only continue to fall further behind quality-wise. They get the parks they deserve out there I guess..."

I can tell you from firsthand experience that AL knows what he's talking about; even to a larger extent than most here would believe when it comes to WDW. Yes he has strong ties with his Disneyland sources but trust me, many of these sources are well in the loop with respect to WDW.

I realize this may cause some debate but perhaps it's time to let TDO know how you truly feel regarding this topic.
 
devoy1701

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
I could buy it...we all know that WDW monitors sites like this extensively. Though I think over the past couple months alot of the loudest criticism to the parks have since left this site. But I could definitely believe that if management comes to a site where supposed WDW fans gather to discuss the complex do nothing but bash their decisions, it could very well dishearten them to go "why even bother".

But on the other hand, a lot of criticism stems from decisions they make that have nothing to do with fan-boy dreams....limited unique merchandise offerings, rebranding to the Disney Parks campaigns, regular marketing themed campaigns, cutting of show offerings (ie: abbreviated HalloWishes show, less showings of Fantasmic, etc), half-done refurbs of Space and SSE, and closing of guest areas with nothing to replace them.

I could think this out more...but it's still early and i'm only halfway through my coffee...but it's almost like a chicken and the egg kind of catch22 situation.

All I can say is we should be more tasteful in our criticism and praise whenever they do something right.
 
D

DisneyNut2007

Active Member
devoy1701 said:
All I can say is we should be more tasteful in our criticism and praise whenever they do something right.
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True.

For example:

A type of criticism that we shouldn't bother with: The Hat at DHS.

A type of criticism that we SHOULD concern ourselves with (and would be better off focusing on): The cutbacks in Xmas season offerings/decor, including the losses of the Country Bear Xmas show, Lights of Winter, etc.
 
Pioneer Hall

Pioneer Hall

Well-Known Member
I think that overall it probably doesn't stem from here, but I could see how a few things could be a result of what is said here.

Overall though I think the reason we don't see big improvements like Disneyland does is because of the two different audiences that the resorts cater to (which has been my argument all along). Disneyland has over 1 million Annual Passholders that visit very often and are the parks harshest critics. Disneyland has to keep the park pristine or the lines outside of city hall will be never ending. Disney World deals with the casual tourist more often than not who is paying more attention to the action than the lightbulbs, dust, speakers, etc. Unfortunately for us fans this ultimately causes some things to get stale and into a state of disrepair. It is unfortunate, but WDW Management knows what they can get away with. I think that the practice should be changed, but I don't run the place (well not yet at least).

I think that if WDW wants to see some of the TLC that Disneyland gets it should start channeling the often argued DVC members to be more vocal. DVC members are the ones who have a true vested interest in WDW because of their guaranteed commitment to visit for many more years to come. If they can start making the point known that the parks are not worth their contracts and they would be willing to sell...Disney MIGHT listen. So when people here complain that DVC is taking over, it could just be DVC that really helps WDW in the long run.
 
dreamfinder

dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Based solely off the response from people on this site, more often than not people complain about issues with the parks. To the point of some people complaining that this board is way to skewed towards the negative. So I would tend to disagree with his comment that the fan bois chew out any negativity.
 
jt04

jt04

Well-Known Member
whylightbulb said:
If anyone caught Al Lutz's "Ask A Columnist" today you undoubtedly noticed his following quote:

"...the rabid Walt Disney World fan boys who attack anything online they perceive as negative about the resort (to the sheer delight of the management there, whose use these posts to justify further cutbacks) along with the many WDW-focused sites that delete critiques of any kind, it practically insures that the East Coast complex will only continue to fall further behind quality-wise. They get the parks they deserve out there I guess..."

I can tell you from firsthand experience that AL knows what he's talking about; even to a larger extent than most here would believe when it comes to WDW. Yes he has strong ties with his Disneyland sources but trust me, many of these sources are well in the loop with respect to WDW.

I realize this may cause some debate but perhaps it's time to let TDO know how you truly feel regarding this topic.
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So let me see if I have this right, if customers complain about something management's response is to make things worse by cutting things further.

Yeah right. :lol:

That would explain all the MK refurbs.

Remember, Al gives Kevin Yee space on his site for the "Declining By Degrees" essays. Enough said.


At least I hope he is wrong :lookaroun
 
Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Personally I think it all comes down to incentive. What incentive does WDW have to invest more in their parks? MK is the most visited them park in the world and WDW holds the same rank as a vacation destination. With numbers like that it is easy for management to cut everything to the bone and just do basic maintenance and rake in the cash. The best thing that could ever happen to WDW would be for DL and DCA to take over the #1 and #2 spots on the top ten theme parks attendance list.
 
bgraham34

bgraham34

Well-Known Member
Master Yoda said:
Personally I think it all comes down to incentive. What incentive does WDW have to invest more in their parks? MK is the most visited them park in the world and WDW holds the same rank as a vacation destination. With numbers like that it is easy for management to cut everything to the bone and just do basic maintenance and rake in the cash. The best thing that could ever happen to WDW would be for DL and DCA to take over the #1 and #2 spots on the top ten theme parks attendance list.
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I was thinking the same thing before I read your post. I think that the Disney World Resort in a whole needs to take a hit attendance wise for it to become the crown jewel of Disney again. A visionary just needs to step in and realize just what the resort has to offer. I also think the Studios is the key to that. It needs to become just that again a Studio. Make it feel like it is a working Studio again.
 
rsoxguy

rsoxguy

Well-Known Member
IMHO, I believe that Mr. Lutz is giving too much credit to the internet. Those who belong to Disney forums are only a small percentage of the tourism demographic for WDW. I have only seen three members in the past five years on this forum who live near me, and I do not live in a sparsely populated area by any means. Conversely, I have known many people in my area who have visited WDW in the past five years. Additionally, I have also seen members from this forum on other sites, thereby concluding that forum membership numbers artificially double in some cases. I realize that this forum has many members, but only a small percentage actually post with any regularity. I do not believe that Disney management is making decisions that affect their finances, well into the millions of dollars, simply to appease the gripes and complaints of a few thousand people. Their annual attendance numbers well into the millions, and I'm certain that we can all agree on the point that the numerical gap between those who attend the parks and those who post on forums is extensive. I'm sure that Disney management pays attention to forums, but I have a difficult time believing that we can affect their decision making process in a substantial way.
 
M

Mr.MouseFan

Active Member
Lutz can say whatever he wants about WDW. I don't really care. A lot of what he says is true when it comes to TDO and WDW.

What I take issue with is his statement that Disneyland visitors are more "sophisticated and demanding". He can be elitist when it comes to Disneyland, I don't really care. But when he starts to get elitist as far as each resort's visitors, I have a problem with that.
 
D

DisneyNut2007

Active Member
DisneyInsider said:
Overall though I think the reason we don't see big improvements like Disneyland does is because of the two different audiences that the resorts cater to (which has been my argument all along). Disneyland has over 1 million Annual Passholders that visit very often and are the parks harshest critics. Disneyland has to keep the park pristine or the lines outside of city hall will be never ending. Disney World deals with the casual tourist more often than not who is paying more attention to the action than the lightbulbs, dust, speakers, etc. Unfortunately for us fans this ultimately causes some things to get stale and into a state of disrepair. It is unfortunate, but WDW Management knows what they can get away with.
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Once again, you are totally wrong and I hope you get de-admined ASAP! :mad:

Mr.MouseFan said:
A lot of what he says is true when it comes to TDO and WDW.
Click to expand...

NOT! :mad:
 
devoy1701

devoy1701

Well-Known Member
rsoxguy said:
IMHO, I believe that Mr. Lutz is giving too much credit to the internet. Those who belong to Disney forums are only a small percentage of the tourism demographic for WDW. I have only seen three members in the past five years on this forum who live near me, and I do not live in a sparsely populated area by any means. Conversely, I have known many people in my area who have visited WDW in the past five years. Additionally, I have also seen members from this forum on other sites, thereby concluding that forum membership numbers artificially double in some cases. I realize that this forum has many members, but only a small percentage actually post with any regularity. I do not believe that Disney management is making decisions that affect their finances, well into the millions of dollars, simply to appease the gripes and complaints of a few thousand people. Their annual attendance numbers well into the millions, and I'm certain that we can all agree on the point that the numerical gap between those who attend the parks and those who post on forums is extensive. I'm sure that Disney management pays attention to forums, but I have a difficult time believing that we can affect their decision making process in a substantial way.
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on the other side of that however, even though we are a small percentage of the visiting demographic for WDW, we are the ones who take the time to voice our opinions and concerns. Most of your average WDW visitors don't really care about the parks from one day/month/year to another and don't think about them except for when they are vacation or planning their vacation. But our feedback is clearly out there and visible for managemnet to see every day. I'm not going to be so quick to say that we don't play a part in their decisions.
 
rsoxguy

rsoxguy

Well-Known Member
devoy1701 said:
on the other side of that however, even though we are a small percentage of the visiting demographic for WDW, we are the ones who take the time to voice our opinions and concerns. Most of your average WDW visitors don't really care about the parks from one day/month/year to another and don't think about them except for when they are vacation or planning their vacation. But our feedback is clearly out there and visible for managemnet to see every day. I'm not going to be so quick to say that we don't play a part in their decisions.
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I agree in part, but allow me to add another thought. If Disney knows that the average park attendee doesn't care, why would they make financially significant decisions based on the desires and opinions of a relatively small amount of people? They are constantly doing in-park surveys to catch a broader view of their customer's opinions, and the internet community of fans is just not as wide a net as some would think.
 
F

floridabill

New Member
jt04 said:
So let me see if I have this right, if customers complain about something management's response is to make things worse by cutting things further.

Yeah right. :lol:

That would explain all the MK refurbs.

Remember, Al gives Kevin Yee space on his site for the "Declining By Degrees" essays. Enough said.


At least I hope he is wrong :lookaroun
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Yes!! I believe that and it only makes perfect sense!!! WDW has gone down the tubes, and it is only going to get worse. and it's not like the MK refurb is even good or worth it!!! It was just some rash idea to make it seem like they were doing something useful,but in reality it is nothing but pure junk!! I make sure to tell as many people as I can how bad they have gotten and to spread the word! I always tell people if you go there you will die!! And if you don't die you will go broke!! We have also sold our dvc and annual passes!!! TDO needs to get the message they are one big screw up, they have ruined family experiences through cost cutting measures. They are no longer the top dog, universal has surpassed them and seaward is probably next, face the music folks they are cheap tacky entertainment for a ridiculous price!!:fork:
 
K

Krack

Active Member
There is no question that Disney chases the guest who's not in attendance and ignores the guest who's addicted. If there's a choice between cutting money to something that they feel appeals to a demographic they're not getting (but could) or the guests that are already in the park, the cut is coming from a Disneyphiles' experience.

This is not different than any other business in the world, but Disney used to market itself as better than other businesses. Disney will ignore you until they think you might be ignoring them - and they move quick when they reach this conclusion - look at Anaheim.
 
K

Krack

Active Member
Mr.MouseFan said:
What I take issue with is his statement that Disneyland visitors are more "sophisticated and demanding". He can be elitist when it comes to Disneyland, I don't really care. But when he starts to get elitist as far as each resort's visitors, I have a problem with that.
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Having spent a lot of time in both resorts ... I think when he uses the word "sophisticated" he is specifically referring to how the Disney company (and parks) work internally. He's saying the average California guest will know far more about what's going on within TDA than the average Florida guest will know about TDO, etc. As far as demanding? In my opinion, this one isn't even debatable; it's like night and day.
 
rsoxguy

rsoxguy

Well-Known Member
Krack said:
There is no question that Disney chases the guest who's not in attendance and ignores the guest who's addicted. If there's a choice between cutting money to something that they feel appeals to a demographic they're not getting (but could) or the guests that are already in the park, they cut is coming from Disneyphiles' experience.

This is not different than any other business in the world, but Disney used to market itself as better than other businesses. Disney will ignore you until they think you might be ignoring them - and they move quick when they reach this conclusion - look at Anaheim.
Click to expand...

Interesting statements that run along the line of what I am trying to say. I do believe that all things are weighed in the balance at Disney, but I have a hard time believing that forums are the larger portion of their resources.
 
tigsmom

tigsmom

Well-Known Member
I have enough people blaming me for stuff that goes wrong in their lives I don't need another. :lol:

If this guy truly believes that the powers that be at WDW base their decisions on a bunch of internet posters than maybe he needs his head examined. :rolleyes:

and to be honest there are few threads I read anymore because it all negative threads, I know a bunch of people who stop reading because of them. You will always find something wrong, how about pointing out what is right for a change?
 
Master Yoda

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
rsoxguy said:
Interesting statements that run along the line of what I am trying to say. I do believe that all things are weighed in the balance at Disney, but I have a hard time believing that forums are the larger portion of their resources.
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I would agree that we are way down on the depth chart but I still can not wrap my head around Al's reasoning. You would think that Disney would either completely ignore the fanboys or take some heed to what they are saying and try to please them. The way Al makes it sound Disney is reading a comment on a forum like "Why did we get short changed on PotC?" and responding with "Oh so you don't like PotC just wait to you see what we cut out of the space mountain refurb! You will be sorry then!". I just have a hard time buying into an entire division of a multi billion dollar company could behave like a scorned teenage girl.
 

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