The Grizz Will Roar!!

General Grizz

New Member
Original Poster
You know, I’ve been thinking.

Excitement filled the air last October. Remember it? The GREAT press event? Jay Rasulo and Al Weiss showcasing all the great new additions to Walt Disney World? The magic of Soarin’ over California and the Motor Cars Stunt Show at MGM.

. . . and now newer additions, such as Cinderellabration.

These are all new experiences that will hopefully enhance our vacations.

But then I thought. . . these are all clones. These are all things already in existence. These are things already dreamed up. . . and hardly improved on. Take the Land, for instance. Soarin’ over California will retheme The Land, whereas the clone should actually fit into the original attraction.

You might call me a pessimist. I call myself an idealist. A dreamer. Sometimes it takes a little awareness just to get things right. . . and in that sense, I am an optimist.

But one thing is for certain: Things are getting a little dark underneath that Disney cloud. No, a lot dark.

Behind the opening of Mission Space is the tiny amount of space used. . .the McDonalds-style post show for kids (is this what “family entertainment” has come to?). Behind Test Track is a lame post-show with such music as “Like a Rock” versus Disney originality ("Fun to be Free"). Behind Imagination are unused space and dull scenes.

Meanwhile, the most photographed area of Walt Disney World (the World of Motion Transcenter) has been replaced by. . . essentially nothing. And the most creative playground in the world. . . is upstairs in a glass pyramid. Rotting.

That’s done now. But the plague is spreading elsewhere. Rumor has it that Spaceship Earth will be replaced with a new screen technology attraction.

What’s this, now? 50 animatronics gone from Horizons, 25 from Imagination (three added back after one million complaints), roughly 25 from the Land, 180 from the World of Motion. . . and our last classic, in-spirit omnimover attraction – Spaceship Earth – to be lost, or fallen victim to the cutbacks in rehabs?

The first mental reply might be, “Give it a chance. Let’s see what they do with it.”

What then, folks? The damage will already be done, too costly to reverse. We’ve seen what current management has done, and they do not have my trust. How can I trust the management that attempted to erase Figment from the Imagination? What then??

Now on to seasonal attractions. Carousel of Progress, Timekeeper, and the Wonders of Life (Body Wars, Making of Me, and, my favorite, Cranium Command).

One: Carousel of Progress. This attraction was the ONLY attraction Walt Disney told his Imagineers to keep. His pride and joy. Keep in mind this is only rumor, but Cast Members have reported that when Stitch opens, Progress may go down. For good.

Which would be surprising; after all, Walt Disney management is filled with people who value this tradition and classic. But is Disney willing to go so far to shut this down for good? All this despite its successful attendance ratings since its full-year operation in October without any additional advertisement?

At this point, Wonders of Life has been shut down with areas slowly being removed. On one of the most crowded weekends at Walt Disney World, Fourth of July, the pavilion remained closed. What is to replace it? Nothing. . . yet. And when it finally gets replaced, I have no doubt current management would not care to keep the family and peaceful atmosphere of the pavilion, but rather devote the whole thing to a new craze, a new thrill, rather than keeping a thrill ride to itself (i.e. Body Wars only a small part of Wonders of Life) . . .again, this is a prediction based on track records.

And you may respond to this: "Wonders of Life is old and outdated." This doesn't mean we don't value it. I definitely promote a reworking of the current pavilion, but the fact is we do NOT have new attractions being built with such care to detail and the experience - the essence, the SINCERITY, the Walt Disney - no, not today. And therefore I find the great humor and originality of "Cranium Command" and the bright, spirited Sensory Playhouse as superior as a family attraction to what's next door.

Yet, we have new attractions being built. Most of which? Clones. No, not new Walt Disney World exclusive and magical experiences. . . .clones. Clones that will come in, clones that have been brought in for the purpose of making a cheap new addition to rack in the guests.

This is NOT to say these clones are BAD attractions. This is to say that Disney has the wrong focus when it comes to a NEW attraction. Do you get what I’m saying?

No, this problem isn’t with Walt Disney Imagineering. I’m sure if Imagineering were left to itself, Walt Disney World would get ORIGINAL attractions once again. Such great things as NEW TOMORROWLAND (Timekeeper, Alien Encounter, etc), TOWER OF TERROR (now a clone itself elsewhere!), and SPLASH MOUNTAIN.

But all of these projects needed a great budget. Great management.

We don't have that.

Certainly, great new attractions are coming into play. PhilharMagic and Stitch are excellent and exciting remakes of attractions. . . but where is the ORIGINAL character? Mission Space is original and hi-tech, but there isn’t even QUEUE space. . . and to make matters worse, speakers and vents can be seen in that cramped area. Compare that to the seasonal Wonders of Life with not a vent or speaker in sight!

Mission Space has boosted Epcot’s attendance. But, like Body Wars, it will dip in attendance as years go by, simply because there is no attachment factor. No “home” identification – it’s a ride based on thrill and emotion that can be thrown away for the next best thing in twenty years. Original concepts such as the “Carousel of Progress” still live on and are regarded as true classics. Pirates of the Caribbean. . . Haunted Mansion. Because of their quality. Their work effort. Extreme focus on detail. Themes. Story. Song.

We’re not getting this anymore. And the problem comes when Disney is closing down MORE classic attractions – with no assurance that it will make them any better.

That’s the problem. A problem circulating around the whole Walt Disney Company. Cheap, cheap, cheap has brought in great FAILURES: 2-D animation has cut back in traditional aspects of quality, story, and song – merely by the decisions of management – the same management that fired 2,500 employee artists who brought your favorite (original!) characters to life in the first place. Same thing with films. AND television. More blunders that have made the Disney news. It’s not Imagineering. . . it’s not the animators. . . it’s not the Cast Members. God bless them all. It’s the people who give the final decision. People. . . like Michael Eisner. . . who need to leave now.

The great blunder of putting Iago and rap music in the Enchanted Tiki Room that has created virtually no new great audience. The shame of putting a cheap, “plastic” Goofy dance show in the classic and family-fun Diamond Horseshoe Revue (a replacement that could have easily been put in Wonders of Life). It’s sickening.

I’m not about to sit and see Walt Disney’s treasured “Progress” go in the trash-heap. I’m not about to see Timekeeper replaced by Toy Story characters who have an attraction next door. I’m not about to see the peacefulness and thematic relevance of the Land and Wonders of Life ruined by cheap additions.

And beyond this, the detail being chipped away. The cutbacks. . . evident. The show. . . being ruined in this small way or the other. The classic Magic Kingdom Cast Members being laid off or quitting because management is replacing them with college kids, many of whom don’t truly care about their job.

We have problems. It makes me sad to think that I have to feel distressed and untrusting of the Walt Disney Company. . . but even worse to think about what it’s doing.

I don’t know about you, but the Grizzly Bear will be roaring loud.

(For recent "Call to Arms" threads, check out the Wonders of Life situation at http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=41041 and the Land situation at http://forums.wdwmagic.com/showthread.php?t=40423 ).
 

diddy_mouse

Well-Known Member
bravo Grizz! :sohappy: :soahppy: i too am an advocate for the classic attractions, i feel they should remain classic. it adds to what Disney World is all about.
 

CaptainMichael

Well-Known Member
ROARRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!! REPLACE EISNER WITH GENERAL GRIZZ!!

Extremely motivational......lets all chain ourselves around the Carousel of Progress until they promise to keep it permanently open and rehab it!!!!!
 

DisneyFan 2000

Well-Known Member
I knew it! You must be Roy! :lol: J/K funny though, there isn't one thing that I disagree with you on this one! Make you sure you send it in to Eisner and Co through Roy!
 

jrriddle

Well-Known Member
Hmmm. Seems like we are seeing the death of AA's.
I know there is Lucky, and it sounds like Stitch is going to be pretty advanced. But it looks like the days of heavy AA shows have come to an end.
I'm guessing it's a cost issue. Put the money into one elaborate AA instead of a bunch of normal AA's.
And to think they were a Disney invention.
Ditto the days of attractions telling actual stories. You are right Grizz. Unless the rumor of Matt Ouimet wanting to bring back the classic family E-ticket is true.
We can only hope.
 

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
General Grizz said:
1)No, this problem isn’t with Walt Disney Imagineering. I’m sure if Imagineering were left to itself, Walt Disney World would get ORIGINAL attractions once again. Such great things as NEW TOMORROWLAND (Timekeeper, Alien Encounter, etc), TOWER OF TERROR (now a clone itself elsewhere!), and SPLASH MOUNTAIN.

2)And the problem comes when Disney is closing down MORE classic attractions – with no assurance that it will make them any better.

Another wonderful post, but these two points are my favorites.
 

CubbieMan

New Member
From a business stand ponit I can see where upper management is comming from...in just about every successful company one thing rules the almighty dollar....thus they figure out the cheapest way to bring more people in the gates.

That being said as fan of walt's and everything he stands for I would like to see a bit more creativity in the new attractions. Yes I am excited when I 1st hear a clone is comming to wdw..only because I will probably never see it otherwise...but then it saddens me a bit...where are the original ideas...

Now there is a new rumour about Journey to the Center of the Earth comming to DAK. I know that there are some doubters of this happening, but it would not surprise me. I am sure they are looking towards adding at least one more E ticket attraction for the park to gurantee the majority of the population sees it as a 1 day park rather then a 1/2 day. So what cheaper and quicker way to do this then with a clone...I myself prefer some originality.
 

WDWScottieBoy

Well-Known Member
Grizz, that was excellent, pure GENIOUS! I commend you on your good work and time that you share with the WDWMAGIC family. PLEASE, and I say it again, please send a letter of this to Roy and have him read it. Also, see if you can send a copy to Eisner (of course making sure your points get across to him) and don't let this go. I'm sick of seeing Disney go down the tubes, and if what you said about SSE is true, I'm going to be very depressed. I don't want to see any more classics go away. You never cease to amaze me Grizz. I applaud you for your good work. :sohappy: By the way, why aren't you Eisner, or even Roy's assistant, or are you?!? :lookaroun
 

jrashadb

Member
Kudos to the general of the D-Army for checking in on important issues surrounding the future of the place we all hold near and dear. As usual, the General did his thing and laid it out for y'all...

Now...

Like The General said, the classics in the parks are either on their way down or are being eyeballed by the upper management of the company. Of course, history tells us they have no idea what they're doing.

"But, wait JB... what about Philharmagic? What about M:S? What about Everest and Soaring and the new ride rumored to go in Canada? What about the new stage show going g up at the Castle. What about all that?"

Well... sure. What about all that? What about the clones we're getting? What about the lame-______ show going up at the castle? What about the show that's going to ruin the Land that's a clone of the show in California? What about the nonsense rumors (and credible ones, thank you) that are going around about the transformation of the seminal attraction in Epcot's ICON, Damnit!?!?
What about the damage that will be done to what Walt considered to be the CENTRAL PARK IN WDW, EPCOT?

What about that?

Folks, listen... I understand the problems Epcot faces. I'm relatively young and so are my friends... the ones I bring to Epcot I realize that Innoventions is a joke and nothing interesting -- other than the electric umbrella and Ice station zero -- goes on there. I understand that young ones may not want to figure out what's going on during RoE when there are no fireworks and there's just music and images on the globe.
You know what... I may even be able to wrap my mind around those who find future world a touch... obtuse. Actually, I may be able to understand those who find the world showcase to be the same way.

To them I say... give the park a chance. Give it some time... even that idiot Michael-whatever who doesn't understand how good this park is will understand in a few years. Even I went through my anti-Epcot years, but I pushed through and I understood how amazing this park really is...

And, will continue to be if the uppity-ups at Disney will learn to understand they need to change what is bad, rather than change everything. The last part of SSE is bad. I will admit that. But, the parts leading up to it are good... change the last third. Get rid of the dioramas. Make the ride be what it’s supposed to be. It’s not just a ride; it's a PARK ICON! Make the ride inspiring. Make the ride mean something. Make it the best Dark Ride ever created.

And, if you want to put a flume ride in Canada, fine. If you want to put a thrill ride in The Land, fine, as long as you don't forget it's a place where people to relax and eat. Just... you know... don't turn Epcot into a thrill ride park. Don't cheapen Walt's vision.

Or... you know what... if the higher ups in the Disney hierarchy don't care about Walt (and, I get the feeling some of them don’t and that's... ok... -- care about the people who are coming to your parks. Care about the passholders -- like me -- who don't want to pay for shoddy ideas and workmanship.

You care about your bottom line... Well, fine. Here is is. I'm a passholder and I have been since 2001. Keep this -- and this is a family website, so I'll keep my language clean -- nonsense up and you will lose me and several others as passholders. The people who live here know about your bad decisions and you will lose passholders faster than you ever imagined possible.

Just keep it up. I'll give my money to Spiderman. It's not as good... not at least they’re tryiig.
 
Bravo, General Grizz. You have voiced our concerns in an articulate and passionate manner in this thread and elsewhere on the boards. EPCOT is one of the mose amazing places in the world, and over the last 10 years it has been on a slippery slope toward becoming a thrill park. It is losing its raison d'etre, as it moves further and further away from Walt Disney's vision. It saddens me that I will never be able to experience Horizons or World of Motion.

Now it is true that Walt himself was all about change -- "plussing": he didn't want his parks to stagnate. But how can anyone see what has happened with Journey into Imagination as anything but "minusing." Test Track IS fun, but why did World of Motion have to be gutted to make it happen? Couldn't there have been another way, with all that space. And speaking of space, I just find it appalling that the detailed and immersive Horizons was replaced with a 2 minute "ride" in which you sit in box staring at a tv screen as you are spun around in a circle. "Plussing"?

Cheers
 

M:SpilotISTC12

Well-Known Member
Grizz another great thread. I totally agree with you on the WoL and all the rides going down. Rides that have just been shut down shouldnt have gone down. I think its time to sing a song. Blame Eisner! Blame Eisner! We should bring back the orginal and classic rides.
 

careship

New Member
Wonderful job Grizz!!!!!! Once again, thanks for laying it out in a thought provoking manner and for being honest.

Send this on to Roy and remind him what this fight is all about!!!!
 

NemoRocks78

Seized
Premium Member
Excitement filled the air last October. Remember it? The GREAT press event? Jay Rasulo and Al Weiss showcasing all the great new additions to Walt Disney World? The magic of Soarin’ over California and the Motor Cars Stunt Show at MGM.

And with happiness comes sadness....don't forget the tragic closing of an incredible attraction during the weekend of the press event.... :cry:

Grizz, an excellent post once again! :sohappy:
 

1disneydood

Active Member
Very good points Grizz. I for one go to WDW for the anamatronic technology and shows. Take those away and you just have a better cosmeticly themed six flags.
 

MichRX7

Premium Member
First let me say Grizz I really enjoy your posts. They are insightful, usually cause an emotional outburst, and then deep thought about what you are saying.

I must say really to some extent WDW has always been about doing things "on the cheap." If we were to compare the opening of MK to the clone rides going in today we'd find that what was happening back then continues today. Sure, there've been some unique things (pretty much all of EPCOT), but when MK opened it was (in my mind) completely done on the cheap reworking many attractions found in DL.

Now, don't get my comments wrong. I love WDW. If I could retire and live out my days at the resort I could die happy and be the 1,000th ghost at HM. But, the facts are there that the "cloning factor" has been going on since the beginning. And if you look at FantasyLand, in my mind, poorly thought out and cheap cloning has been going on.

But, if the things happen that you say are rumored to happen I'll stand beside you in the complaint line wearing my official WDWMagic.com "SAVE COP AND THE MAGIC OF WALT" t-shirt.
 

imagineer boy

Well-Known Member
Bravo Grizz! Bravo! :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy: :sohappy:

You made a ton of good points there.

Say it with me everyone! Grizz for CEO!!!!!
 

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